Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 At my recent habitation service they made an 'observation' that "..the gas drop hole under cooker blocked with pipe insulation". They have yet to contact me with any further help so I thought before I do ay investigation I'd ask for any advice here, which will be gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 My only advice would be remove the blockage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Alistair, It would help if we knew what MH we are discussing here? ie layout of cooker and sink, etc, as to why the pipe insulation is blocking the gas drop. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Of course.It's a 2019 Elddis Majestic 120. The sink/oven/hob are on the same side as the gas bottle storage compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Sorry, that hasn't worked, has it? Not sure how to attach a file on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Click the 'Attach file after posting' check box below the text box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Do you have drawers below the hob/oven? If yes then pull them out to look for the gas drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Ridgewoodwoody - 2022-02-03 12:04 PM Of course.It's a 2019 Elddis Majestic 120. The sink/oven/hob are on the same side as the gas bottle storage compartment. This appears to be a latent defect (i.e. a defect that you, as owner, could not reasonably be expected to have discovered). As your van is (presumably, only just over two years old, I'd suggest taking it up with the supplying dealer. I'm assuming this may be the same dealer who carried out the hab. service, but even if it is not, it is a safety issue that should not have arisen. I'm also assuming that the insulation has detached from either the cooker or the van wall. However, there is no logical reason why bits of loose insulation should be anywhere near a gas drop. So, IMO, its definitely one for Elddis to sort and, if they wont play ball, the dealer in their stead. That gas drop is there to prevent an explosive accumulation of gas behind the cooker, possibly caused if the gas connection were leaking. Nothing dropping from the van structure or the oven, or left behind during assembly, should be able to obstruct it. Forget warranties, it is a Health and Safety issue! I'm amazed whoever did the hab. service returned the van to with the drop blocked. They should have sorted it there and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Ridgewoodwoody - 2022-02-03 12:08 PM Sorry, that hasn't worked, has it? Not sure how to attach a file on here. Advice on attaching a file to a posting can be found in the "Uploading a file or image" section in the Forums FAQ thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Code-of-Conduct-and-User-Guidelines/Forum-User-Guide/Forums-FAQ/3930/ There's been plenty of discussion on motorhome forums about gas 'drop vents'. The position seems to be that UK-built motor caravans that are accepted as NCC Approved https://www.thencc.org.uk/downloads/Approved%20Motor%20caravans%20June%202021.pdf will normally have a dedicated drop vent for each gas-fuelled habitation appliance. As far as I'm aware including such 'appliance' drop vents is not legally compulsory in the UK, but the NCC seems to like them. It's certainly the case that non-UK motorhome builders would generally not fit a drop vent for a gas-fuelled cooker or heater, so I'm not sure what happens with the Benimar, Chausson, McLouis, Mobilvetta and Roller Team models that figure on the NCC Approved listing. As I consider that the gas drop-vent 'mouseholes' that are commonly fitted in the floor of UK-built motorhomes are a joke, if that's what Alistair's Elddis has then the insulation-blocked vent under the cooker hardly represents a realistic threat to life. However - as Brian has said - if it worries Alistair, he should take it up with his dealer and/or Elddis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Thanks everyone. For the life of me I cannot see a hole of any description under the oven so am taking her back to the supplier for them to explain their findings. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Brian Kirby - 2022-02-03 1:26 PM I'm also assuming that the insulation has detached from either the cooker or the van wall. However, there is no logical reason why bits of loose insulation should be anywhere near a gas drop. Or perhaps the previous owner had deliberately blocked the vent with pipe insulation to prevent draughts or road spray ingress or vermin /insects etc. as many do (myself included when I had a vent-riddled NCC-approved van). My hab checker noted the blockages (or the one that he found) as an 'advisory' in a similar way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Steve928 - 2022-02-03 3:44 PM Brian Kirby - 2022-02-03 1:26 PM I'm also assuming that the insulation has detached from either the cooker or the van wall. However, there is no logical reason why bits of loose insulation should be anywhere near a gas drop. Or perhaps the previous owner had deliberately blocked the vent with pipe insulation to prevent draughts or road spray ingress or vermin /insects etc. as many do (myself included when I had a vent-riddled NCC-approved van). My hab checker noted the blockages (or the one that he found) as an 'advisory' in a similar way. My van is a Globecar, built by same group as Hymer, AFAIK not a NCC approved van, it still has gas drop outs under the galley unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I've asked the NCC if they can explain the whys and wherefores. I'll report back if/when they reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Steve928 - 2022-02-03 3:44 PM Or perhaps the previous owner had deliberately blocked the vent with pipe insulation to prevent draughts or road spray ingress or vermin /insects etc. as many do. ..they certainly do ;-) It isn't unknown, however, for certain converters to use a gas drop-hole grid fitting to line a hole they subsequently use (by holing the grid) to drop a gas pipe through the floor (it provides a neat(-ish) finish). I've seen pipe insulation then applied (presumably by the converter) to provide draught-proofing. There should be drop-hole(s) below an appliance, but if the insulation is around a pipe or wiring going through the floor, don't assume that that particular one was fitted for that function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 This link discusses leisure-vehicle habitation checks https://habcheck.co.uk/page/what-is-a-habitation-check A check-list is shown here https://habcheck.co.uk/media/find/47 and one of the tasks to be carried out is to "Ensure all gas dispersal vents are clear". So if something that is clearly intended to be a "gas dispersal vent" is found to be blocked, it is to be expected that the checker will flag this up. However, it should be obvious when (as Robinhood mentions) a common-or-garden gas-vent fitting (photo attached below) is deliberately being employed for a different purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Please keep in Mind that the gas used IN RV is heavier than air. So it will settle downs on your floor in case the ventilation under is blocked. It can reach a level of explosion or it burns op to the level of the gas. Not nice for your dog. Have good gas sensors in your. RV. And Escape in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Butane and propane being heavy than air presents a risk for boat owners too as they cannot employ drop holes or vents - I'm sure some have tried, but it wouldn't have gone well ;-) Some years ago Yachting Monthly had a test boat which they put through all sorts of ordeals, the final one being a gas explosion. They found it harder than they imagined to ignite; from memory they first left an appliance open for 30 minutes before firing the remote igniter but nothing happened. To successfully blow it up they resorted to leaving a fully open gas bottle at the lowest point inside the boat and this did work, spectacularly. So the risk exists but is perhaps lower than first imagined. I've had boats with LPG systems for 40+ years, still do, and with a well-maintained system I don't feel particularly at risk. Neither do I in my current van with zero floor vents. The boat video is here should you want to watch it. Explosion at about 05:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 Thanks again for all your replies. I simply cannot see the vent not helped by not being able - as far as I can tell - by not being able to remove the drawer that's immediately under the oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 When you pull the drawer fully out is there a small black lever showing in the slide? If so try pressing it up or down to release the slide. You may find one side goes up and the other down as the slides are actually identical and not handed. Or post a photo (of less than 100 kb file size) if in doubt. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 The attachments are taken from John Wickersham's book "Build your own Motorcaravan". As access to the area beneath the cooker in Alistair's Elddis motorhome evidently requires removing a storage drawer, I wonder if the person that carried out the habitation service would have done this when carrying out a gas check. It seems just as likely (to me) that, while inspecting the vehicle's underside, it was noticed that pipe-insulation had been stuffed into a hole in the floor and that the position of the hole was beneath the cooker and was intended as a gas-drop vent. If Elddis has used the ubiquitous gas-drop fitting shown in my posting of 4 February 2022 8:33 AM above, it would be a lot easier to block ithis with pipe-insulation from underneath the motorhome than by trying to insert the insulation through the fitting's top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Ridgewoodwoody - 2022-02-05 11:01 AM Thanks again for all your replies. I simply cannot see the vent not helped by not being able - as far as I can tell - by not being able to remove the drawer that's immediately under the oven. Have you looked under the Van to find the position of the blocked hole? Surely this is where they saw that it was blocked. Then you will know where to look inside? Or is that me being a simple soul? Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 I've attached (I hope) a photo of the space beneath the oven and also from underneath the van the latter showing two small metal grills but I cannot see that they are blocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 ...the picture(s) are rather indistinct, but what is it wrapped round the hot/cold water pipes as they go through what looks like the floor. Depending on the orientation of the photo, it looks rather like the practice I described above of using a gas-drop unit with the grid removed to drop pipes through the floor, protecting them with pipe insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewoodwoody Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 OK. We're getting there, I think. It's astonishing what you see but don't register - the notice on this cover, for example is what the issue is and I hadn't picked up. Should that pipe insulation be around the cold water pipe? What will happen if I remover it? I will send the photo the Elddis to get their view. Either it was done by them on conversion or by the first owner before we bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I would have thought the piece of insulation is there to stop the water hoses from chafing and/or vibrating when water is passing through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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