tringy Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Hi, my motorhome is in for service and I have been informed that there’s a problem with the rear brakes and that someone has fitted Brembo pads previously at some point my question is are Brembo pads fitted as original equipment by fiat when the motorhome was new ? I have had this motorhome from new and never had the brakes replaced yet but the garage says they look like they are very newly been replaced and the wear sensors have been damaged and that’s why they have to be replaced. Seems very weird to me! This is my 2015 Autotrail 2.3 150 ducato 4.25 t . Anyone thoughts on this ? Cheers Tringy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 The quoted MAM of the vehicle (4.25 t) exceeds the 3.5 t of the Ducato Maxi. I suspect that the vehicle has been uprated, and probably has an Alko rear chassis. The rear brakes would then be part of the Autotrail conversion, and not Fiat parts. I have not previously heard of wear sensors being fitted to rear brakes, but I am not an expert in that area. Perhaps rear wear sensors are included in the Alko chassis specification? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 From the Fiat brochure "The specific Fiat Ducato Motorhome Base range is the widest and most comprehensive, with no fewer than 5 wheelbases, 6 different chassis lengths, various weights up to the new 4.4-tonne versions," Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringy Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Thanks for your replies but I am still wondering as I thought that Brembo are after market parts or pattern parts so to speak. I hope to get to the bottom of this. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 What mileage is your van? As you've had the van from new, have you always had it serviced at the same place? Do you have its full service record? Do any of the invoices record the time, materials and charge for work to the rear brakes.? If the pads haven't previously been replaced, there is no reason to assume the present pads are other than OEM. Has there been a recall, or advisory, from Fiat regarding replacing rear brake pads (seems odd that only the rears might have been affected) that might explain a FoC change having been made that you may not have been advised of? Fairy tale for extra business? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Tringy's motorhome is a 2015 Auto-Trail "Mohawk". According to the 2015 A-T brochure, this model was built on a Fiat Ducato chassis with a MTPLM of 4250kg, and that maximum weight was automatically upgraded (by Auto-Trail) to 4400kg when a 3.0litre motor was fitted. This advert shows an example https://www.continentalcaravans.co.uk/used/motorhomes/auto-trail/frontier-1/mohawk-1 To the best of my knowledge the REAR brakes of a 2015 Ducato are the same whatever the chassis-type (Fiat or AL-KO) and whether or not the chassis is 'light' or 'heavy'. As far as I'm aware (having owned from new a motorhome based on a 2015 Fiat Ducato chassis) there has been no Fiat recall of any type relating to the rear brakes. Although Brembo may commonly be thought of as providing brake components for high-performance cars/motorbikes, it's quite possible that Brembo supplies OEM brake components (calipers/pads/shoes) for Fiat Ducatos. This advert is for a Brembo rear-brake pad 'kit' for 2006-onwards Ducatos (and wear sensors are mentioned) https://www.auto-ricambi.eu/brake-pads-fiat-ducato-from-2006-rear-2-sensors-with-accessories-20q-typ-brembo-p51755/ Presumably the garage servicing Tringy's motorhome has been able to identify the maker of the damaged rear-brake pads because the pads carry the "Brembo" markings. As Brian has said, it would be worth Tringy checking the documentation for earlier services. I would have thought that - if the rear pads have been changed during the last 7 years - Tringy would have been told about this at the time (particularly as garages rarely carry out work without getting the customer to pay!) Without knowing the mileage Tringy's motorhome has covered, it's hard to know how much rear-brake pad wear to expect, but it may be that the wear will be quite small if the mileage is low.It's perfectly possible, though, for the sensor wires to have become damaged (both sensors or just one?) sometime in the past and that this damage has now become noticeable and require pad replacement. (Me, I'd want to see the 'very newly replaced' Brembo pads, as it OUGHT to be possible to decide if those pads were fitted in (say) the last 2 years or were OEM pads fitted in 2015.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefitz Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 It's almost certain you have standard Fiat rear brakes on your vehicle . It should have had at least two services since 2015 and now so has been worked on. There is nothing wrong with Brembro pads, however the non critical wear sensor connector can be damaged if fitted incorrectly. The braking systen will function safely without the wear sensor, and its easy to replace if required. It's only fitted to the drivers side (rhd) brake caliper. It's not clear why the garage is making a fuss about this. It may be that the pads are original but would not look new after 7 years. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringy Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Again thanks for your replies, it has 40, thousand on the clock , a lot of the mileage is motorway driving to and from Spain and been serviced by fiat professional garage 4 times, once mistakenly in the first year my mistake and then again the year after, both in Spain by fiat’s professional garage and once more in 2019 by a fiat’s professional garage in the Uk. Now at the moment it is in for service at the same fiat garage and had a call to say the steering rack is leaking and needs replacing along with the two front callipers as the bleed nipples were seized up and have been sheared off in the process and also the problem with the rear brakes. Cost of repair 2400 and I am hoping the service is included in the price. Up to now no work has been done to the brake system other than renewal of the fluid. As some of you maybe aware that i had a problem in Spain last September with a sheared bolt on the water pump when having the cambelt changed and the first thing they said to me was this has been taken apart before by someone else, I said no way , fiat is the only one that has serviced it. It just makes me wonder what has gone on but I have had this from new. I will see what happens, waiting for a call to say it’s done. Regards Tringy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 This 2018 forum thread related to Fiat Ducato FRONT brake pad warning lights https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-front-brake-pad-warning-light/49065/ but the two postings by Nick Fisher (euroserv) are worth reading as they touch on the rear brakes too. This 2019 tale of woe https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Sheared-brake-bleed-nipple/51803/ suggests that the OEM brake calipers are likely to be Brembo products - so the OEM pads may well be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I've had to replace Ducato rear pads at quite low mileage because the piston / caliper had seized and the brake was binding. PS: Only found out when it went on the brake test rollers for its MOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Nick Fisher (euroserv) suggested a lifespan for the rear-brake pads of a Ducato as 30K-40K miles. So (even if the rear-brake callipers of Tringy's motorhome had not developed any problems between 2015 and now) one might anticipate a pad change becoming necessary sometime during that period. It still seems odd that - if the rear-brake pads were changed - Tringy wasn't made aware of this. However, the water-pump bolt-shearing problem that occurred in Spain last year may be relevant. It's POSSIBLE that the Spanish garage replaced the rear-brake pads and - when the water-pump-related issue blew up - failed to tell Tringy that this had been done. I'm tempted to think that the Spanish garage would just want to see the back of Tringy's motorhome and might not be too concerned with invoicing for new rear-brake pads when there was going to be a much larger charge for fixing the water-pump problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringy Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 Thanks Derek for your reply and input, in the end the sheared bolt saga was not the only issue we had with the Spanish fiat so called professional garage, they managed to damage the rear bumper and side skirt badly that took another week to repair,but I see no reason why they should have touched the brakes in anyway , It was in that garage only to replace the cambelt. It was driven by the garage a short distance to there body shop , so who knows what they may have done! I have received no paperwork at any time to say the brakes have been worked on . Also I had an mot done in the middle of November and passed with no advisories and a grand total of less than 20 miles has been done! This time I only went with the big service at a Fiat professional garage because I was given a good will service voucher by Fiat Italy because of all the troubles i had in Spain, maybe this was a blessing in the fact that all these issues have been found out instead of just having oil and filter’s done. Regards Tringy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I've not needed to service the brakes on the current van yet due to lower than usual mileage due to the pandemic. On the previous 2015 Bailey (Sevel + Al-Ko) though the front pads and discs had been replaced 3 times when the van was sold at 68,000 miles. The rear pads and discs were still original and both were only circa 25% worn. Both front and rear pads were Brembo from Sevel - I'm fastidious about noting down makes and part numbers to aid with purchasing parts in the future. I was late (according to the service schedule) to renew the brake fluid and by the time I got around to it the nipples were siezed in both front calipers and sheared. I think I posted a photo at time of the nipple that is almost designed to shear; it has a very narrow 'waist' between head and thread. I'm not mechanically inept and tried all I could to extract the broken stub of the nipple - even TIG welding a length of allen key into the broken part - but had to replace both calipers eventually (thankfully at Coastal Motorhomes rather than dealer prices). On the subject of wear indicators it's perhaps interesting to note that the Peugeot-based Bailey had them on both wheels of each axle while the current Fiat economises (!) by only fitting a wear indicating pad on one wheel per axle :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Nipple photos on this forum thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Sheared-brake-bleed-nipple/51803/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machra Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The OP says the rear brakes have to be replaced as the wear sensors are damaged. My question back would be whether wear sensors are mandatory. Yes they are a nice to have but on a regularly serviced van do you need wear sensors? My van (2017 Burstner with Fiat chassis) has the chassis part of the sensors (wiring and connectors) on both sides at the rear but only one side (rhs wheel) is connected ie only one pad out of the 4 has a corresponding wire. Van was bought new so pads haven’t been changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The garage servicing Tringy's motorhome had told him that, because the wear-sensors of the vehicle's rear brakes had been damaged, the damaged parts (presumably just the pads) must be replaced. This RAC link refers to brake pads https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/car-maintenance/brake-pads/ and (in the "When to replace brake pads" section) makes it clear that not all vehicles are equipped with brake pad wear sensors. Regarding "mandatoriness", I refer you to Nick Fisher's posting of 4 April 2018 12:27 PM in this 2018 thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-front-brake-pad-warning-light/49065/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tringy Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Hi, I thought i would write to tell you the conclusion . The rear pads have been replaced along with the other things on my previous post at great cost to me. I have seen the rear pads in question in the flesh and the wear wire sensor has been cut and the connectors broken , the mystery is the pads show very little or no mileage wear at all compared to the new ones ,at 40 thousand miles these must have been replaced before by someone, not me, fiat are the only ones that have serviced it here in the Uk and also fiat in Spain, nobody else has touched it. I have all the paperwork for the past work done and there’s no proof in it that I have had any work done to the brakes. It’s a mystery. Has Derek has maybe said in my last post that the Spanish garage have replaced them out of shear embarrassment and not charged me dew to the massive amount of cock ups I have had with them , But I thought they might have told me to gain some brownie points back or just for information. Overall it was a good thing all has been sorted and these problems solved as we are planning to go out to Spain and before i was tempted to service it myself and probably would not have seen these problems . Regards Tringy Ps thanks for all your previous advice.cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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