Rapido/Sprinter 3l Auto Issue

[PeteH]

Last few days. I have had a "warning" long beep. and the rapido display shows up a KEY symbol. So, before I start pulling lumps out of the electric`s. Has anyone else come across this??. and if so what was the eventual solution.

I have found before, that many of the "experts", dealers and repairers are only too willing to replace expensive items, at your cost to "solve" a simple matter.

 

So Far, I have replaced the batteries in the key fobs. as a Precauction. but this is not the solution. although cancellingthe alarm by this means works, but it re-occures, often within few min;

 

Any Ideas Please?

 

Petr

[Keithl]

Peter,

 

When you say that the Rapido display shows the KEY symbol I assume you mean the Rapido display panel for the habitation electrics rather than the Mercedes dash display, correct? If so it may help to say what year your Rapido is and what make and model the electric control panel is.

 

Keith.

[PeteH]

Hi

 

The Model is a 999M, A class, On the Sprinter Base, 3L V6 Auto. The Panel is a (SHEIBER) Multiblock 36.24160.04, with the readout/panel above the Door. Identified I believe as also a SHEIBER panel. The Chassis battery is Brand New, a matter of 3 weeks since installation. and Both Battery sets are indicating 13V or higher. Kept so by the Solar panels.

 

The indication, as previously stated, can be briefly silenced/cancelled with the key fobs, and the key symbol on the panel is what I have never seen prior?.

 

Pete

[Derek Uzzell]

Rapido was making the 999M during model-years 2007 to 2010, so your motorhome will be at least 12 years old.

 

Although there are a few online comments on UK motorhome forums about issues with Rapidos and SCHEIBER control-panels, there's nothing I can find that mentions a 'KEY' warning alarm. When the control-panel behaves oddly in a manner that's not covered by the SCHEIBER user manual, it's sometimes suggested that the panel be reset through its menu system and - if that proves ineffective - that it be removed and given a good clean (eg. blown through with an airline).

 

I was able to find a SCHEIBER (French language) download for the Rapido 2004 model-year control-panel that matches the 36.24160.04 reference you gave

 

https://www.scheiber.com/notices?lang=en

 

https://www.scheiber.com/_files/ugd/cfdb67_8e27a29f53bd415b9827b23d37b724b7.pdf?lang=en

 

This has guidance on the various 'alarms' but nothing about the KEY phenomenon.

 

There's a Rapido and Silver Owners Club

 

https://rapidoandsilverownersclub.co.uk/

 

but your best bet for 'free' advice would probably be the Rapido Owners Group UK on Facebook

 

https://en-gb.facebook.com/groups/RapidoOwnersGroupUK/about/

 

You MIGHT get feedback through French motorhome forums (Rapido and SCHEIBERare both French) but I dd a quick-and-dirty search looking for 'key symbol' references and didn't find anything.

 

Wokingham Motorhomes or Highbridge Caravan Centre MIGHT know...

 

 

[PeteH]

Thanks Derek.

 

This "Phenomenon", has now ceased. The only thing I have done since posting is put it on EHU?. I am now speculating that the Hab Battery is charging from the Solar Panels, but NOT the Chassis battery. As I did not do the Solar installation, so cannot be sure if it was ever connected, to the chassis battery?. A search earlier, (Sprinter Source, a US site) suggests that the Sprinter Range, is very susceptable to low voltage fluctuations, Despite the battery being new, there are always "ghost drains", I theorise that it would be possible to drop the voltage even briefly when the Door Latches operate, triggering the Alarm, IF it dropped below the threshhold, that might be the answer. It is at this time working perfectly, so now I will unplug the EHU, and see if over a few days this re-occurs?.

 

I am also going to have the check out IF the solars are actually even charging the chassis battery. I suspect not?. I have the Sheiber Download, but my French is virtually non existant, beyond Bread, Wine and Beer!!.

 

Pete

[Derek Uzzell]

I see that there actually is a downloadable English-language version of the Scheiber Rapido control--panel document and (apparently) this was still current in November 2008.

 

https://www.scheiber.com/_files/ugd/084c74_b4f9894c0d934f4d876d08171d644d06.pdf?lang=en

 

There's no mention of a 'key' symbol though.

[PeteH]

Thanks Again Derek.

 

The mystery of the key symbol remains, I am only guessing here, but as the hab door Central locking IS linked into the original Sprinter C-L system, any alarm/faults could/will show on the sheiber panel?. It will be interesting to see if it re-occurs in a day or two when (I am assuming) the battery will be slightly low once more.

 

I quick peruse of the Control panel doc; (Different to mine in style and layout BTW) only refers to a low Voltage alarm when the Hab batteries are low (below 12V) I supect my issue to be with the chassis battery.

 

It had no effect on the starting or operation, and the OBDI output showed a low Voltage of 12.1V and a High of 12.8. when tested. This would be with a full set (6) of Glow plugs potentially pulling juice out of the battery (ign; on). It drops briefly, as most do, below 12V under full starter load.

 

Pete

[Derek Uzzell]

PeteH - 2022-04-19 7:24 AM

 

I quick peruse of the Control panel doc; (Different to mine in style and layout BTW)...

 

Not knowing when your 999M motorhome was built, it's hard to know which Scheiber control-panel it might have.

 

It's evident that Rapido motorhomes in the 20th century had more than one panel design (and that Rapido fitted CBE equipment as well as Scheiber kit).

 

The attached two photos show a Rapido-marked Scheiber control-panel that is referred to on French forums, and this link carries what looks like a chunk of a Rapido Owner Manual that describes the Scheiber panel.

 

http://www.chrismart.byethost15.com/Materials/Manuals/Rapido/V.htm?i=1

 

(I'm doubtful that the 'key' symbol relates to your motorhome's central locking. My 2015 Fiat-based coachbuilt Rapido had central locking that included the habitation-area door, but any faults with that system were shown on the Fiat dashboard display and did not affect the motorhome's (CBE) control-panel.)

[davidmac]

Hi, i have just had a read through the Rapido owners manual for my 966M . There is information and explanations for the use of both Sheiber and CBE control panels. There is no mention of a key symbol, all messages and warnings are displayed in written text on the Sheiber panel. The CBE panel has icons but not one representing a key. All the warnings are about waste and fresh water level, battery voltage, ehu, step extended ( the manual covers 6,7 and 9 series). At the moment the only warning I get is for the empty fresh water tank. No help to you but if I can give you any help let me know.

Regards David

My m/h is equipped with the Sheiber control panel as shown in Dereks' post.

[PeteH]

Cheer`s Derek.

 

The last one is closest to ours, Much of the operation being similar. (build year 2008, Chassis) Likely late `08/9? by Rapido. Thing is one never really know just when it gets actually built. I used to pass the Swift Factory, and they at one time had a compound full of "push me pull you" Ducato`s. How many took months if not longer to hit the Dealership?.

 

Any way, I have it under "observation" at this time and am doing some research on the wiring to see if I can deterimine IF it` does charge BOTH battery sets?.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Pete

[PeteH]

HI David.

 

Yes I have the O-M. and the situation is as you say. Which, for me is even more "mystery".

 

One thing you might know? (if you have solar panels?) Do your panel(s) charge the Chassis battery?. As I was saying to Derek, I do have doubts about the way mine are wired.

 

Pete

[davidmac]

Hi, yes my Rapido has a solar panel. Late last year I replaced the sunseeker controller with a Victron controller hoping for better performance, I think it does work better. I just swapped the wires from one to the other, and as there are two wires going into the load terminal I would assume both batteries get charged, also the voltage of both batteries is virtually the same except when a lot of hab electrics are in use .

Regards David

[onecal]

Hi

Can you post o photo please of the display showing up the KEY symbol and any other symbols which may be up on the panel

 

[PeteH]

Hi

 

The photo I have will not paste into the message unfortunately, and there appears not to be a way of uploading one.

 

What I have discovered, from a US website, (Sprinter source) is a known issue with earthing, plus the corrosive failure of the Main Start cable, which returns lower than OEM Figures for charging voltages. I have been suspecting this might be Voltage related. So My intention will be to clean the Earths, and possibly look at the Main Battery cable too. So The investigation continues.

 

Pete.

[Derek Uzzell]

Pete

 

If you email your photo (or photos) to the following address

 

duzzell88@gmail.com

 

I'll try to load it/them on to the forum.

[Keithl]

Or follow the instructions here... https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/How-do-i-attach-photo-s/59953/

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Attached below are copies of the two photos Pete sent me.

 

Pete said "...the first Is the Engine running output. The second is the Rapido panel with the "keys" symbols showing..."

 

(I've tweaked Pete's original photos to improve their definition, but the control-panel image is as good as I could manage.)

[Keithl]

Pete,

 

I can't make out which symbol you are saying looks like a 'Key'. Please can you say where on the display we are meant to be looking or post a better photo.

 

It may be a case of mistaken identity, a bit like this classic example...

[Keithl]

And do you have a model number for your display panel as I could not find anything resembling your photo through any of the links posted above?

[Derek Uzzell]

As Pete mentioned above, although he knew the reference number of the Scheiber 'block', the Rapido-marked control-panel carries no equivalent Scheiber identifier.

 

However, this Apuljack Electronics webpage

 

https://www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk/MANUFACTURERS/Scheiber/Scheiber-C-02070A/36.24150.03--C-02070B__p-19-59-452.aspx

 

refers to the panel as a

 

Scheiber C-02070A/36.24150.03 & C-02070B

 

The 1st image in my last posting is of the readout from the diagnostic tool advertised here

 

https://tinyurl.com/bdh2f99s

 

Plainly this won't have been part of Pete's Rapido 999M's original specification.

 

I MIGHT be able to get hold of a Scheiber document relating to the panel's operation by joining a French motorhome forum, but I really don't want to do that as I'm pretty sure it would not provide any more information than what's available through the links in earlier postings here and that it would not explain the mysterious 'key' symbols.

 

Contacting Apuljack Electronics would be the best option as - if they can test/repair this Scheiber system - they may know about the 'keys'.

 

 

[PeteH]

Hi

 

 

"key" symbol. Top Right, Top left and the rightmost symbol on the lower row. All a bit pixeled, due to the difficulties with posting, but on my Phone much clearer. Definitely a visual "key". supported by the fact that it is the use of the Key fob which brings it up. Both fob`s have NEW batteries, so it is not that.

 

The panel is only refered to in the O-M, as a SHEIBER panel. I suspect any further identification will require removal of said panel to see if their are indentifying marks on the back?.

 

At this time I am concentrating on the suggestion that the problem is "earthing" related, something suggested on line. Various sources seem to indicate that Sprinters do have an issue with poor connections viz; Earthing and also low voltage issues with the Alternator and Starter, both of which I appear to have currently. Also why I recently replaced the Chassis Battery (which I suspect was OEM-2008). And initially effected a "cure".

 

As I said earlier, It is strange that once I put the System on EHU, and the battery state rises, The issue goes away?. Hence my concern that perhaps the Solar panels are NOT charging the Chassis Battery.

 

Pete.

 

[Limburger]

Hi,

I have experienced exactly the same problem on a Rapido 965M of 2009 vintage. The buzzer in the Scheiber panel sounds and a "start" message with two key symbols appears at fairly frequent intervals. This mostly occurs when the kitchen tap is turned on or when the habitation door is opened or closed. My first reaction was a voltage drop problem and I therefore removed the control panel and cleaned and inspected the PCB and the terminal block. There are no visible cracks/dry joints and loose wires etc however these type of problems are extremely difficult to detect by visible means!

I first suspected the habitation batteries as the voltage of those batteries dropped fairly rapidly to between 12.3 and 12.4V after the battery charger was switched off and the output wires from the solar panel controller was disconnected. I do not know how old the AGM batteries are as I bought this vehicle in 2021 and the vendor could not confirm their age.

I ttherefore replaced the habitation batteries and the problem did not re-occur for at least 12 hours!

It has now re-appeared!

One other culprit I suspected from the beginning was the solar panel charge controller as (thank goodness!!!) we never got any alarms after sunset when there was no detectable power output from the solar panels. The solar panel controller is a PWM type. I have now ordered an MPPT controller which I will install later this year. I am unaware whether PWM controllers might produce an "unclean" power output which could affect the Scheiber PCB. NB I still have to check the impedance between the negative and the chassis earth!

 

As the MH will be winterised in October I will not know for certain whether changing the solar panel controller will resolve this issue until April/May next year.

 

I would welcome a comment from PeteH whether and how he has been able to resolve his problem.

If anybody else can offer suggestions I would welcome them.

Thanks

Mike

[Keithl]

Limburger - 2022-09-02 6:28 PM

 

I would welcome a comment from PeteH whether and how he has been able to resolve his problem.

 

Mike,

 

PeteH has not logged on to the forums since 27th April this year so I doubt will read your request, but... if you send him a PM this should trigger an email to notify him that he has a PM.

 

Keith.

[Limburger]

Thanks Keith.

Appreciated.

Mike