Fiat ducato 3.0 bessacar e660

[Seanwinder22]

Hello everyone I’m Sean new here and very new to the motorhome life

I have hired a few over the years until saved up

Here I am learning as we go

Anyway I bought a 59 plate 3.0 comformatic fiat ducato bessacar e660 78000 miles full service history first had issues with the gear box jumping from auto to manual that’s now fixed

Now warm start issues

First start is fine and drives no issues

But turn off then try it will not start or if it does will stall

Anyway we got to got to the site as planned no codes or issues

Time for home days later this is when it started

Started van as normal parked up turned off to hand in keys that’s when would not start on third attemp it throws code po340 camshaft sensor bank 1

Rac recovery unplugged cam sensor which did get us home until got to a garage

Now is when issues got interesting lol

So garage diagnostics said cam sensor & crank sensor so got changed

At this point Another code came up p0016 correlation which is crank timing apparently

A few issues can cause this bad oil or not services enough

Crank sensor or wiring even vvt or solenoid valves

Then these codes

(P2243 - Lambda sensor electrical diagnosis

P0053 - LambNa sensor resistance

P0340 - Phase sensor

P250A - Engine oil level sensor

A service and oil change cleared p250A

Codes are now p2243 and p0016

Continuity tests done sensors changed twice new oil filters

May I add also on the full history I found receipts of timing chain replaced at 73000 miles the van is now at 78000 this work was carried out 9 months ago that’s the only information I have

I’m told my issues due to all other checks done leaves bad timing or not done correct the first time

I’m lost and stuck on information being a private sale and these codes came on after sale

I’m honestly so stressed out and stuck

Stuck on finding a good mechanic to help me in South Yorkshire 2 garages lead me in for a fix and did all work mentioned but no fix

The last it just left said only thing now buddy is timing chain 8 hour job 900 quid ????? I fear now what if I pay this and it’s not the issue any help would be great I’m honestly really worried the van wasn’t cheap

 

[Bulletguy]

Seanwinder22 - 2022-06-02 2:17 PM

 

Hello everyone I’m Sean new here and very new to the motorhome life

Wrong sub-forum Sean, this is general chat. Keith will move it to Motorhome Matters for you when he sees it.

[Seanwinder22]

Oh sorry

Thanks tho I will get my head around how to make a post I couldn’t see how to do it yesterday thanks tho

[Keithl]

Good morning Sean,

 

It seems no-one here is able to answer your query so my suggestion would be to try contacting Nick Fisher who is one of the technical team at MMM.

 

Derek posted his email and contact details in this recent thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Dual-mass-flywheel-Fiat-Ducato/60033/

 

Keith.

 

PS And yes I moved your post out of Chatterbox as that section of the forum is for none MH related content as BG said.

[mikefitz]

Your engine is a IVECO engine and a great deal of information is available on this engine.

 

There is no VVT or solenoids controlling timing, its chains and sprokets with guides and tensioners.

 

It's surprising a chain replacement was needed at a low milage.

 

You may have some warranty on the work carried out, generally 12 months and 12k miles is the normal.

 

The code P2243 is for incorrect signals from the O2 sensor, either a faulty sensor or wiring issue.

 

The code P0016 is a phase error between the crank and cam position sensors. Due to faulty sensor, faulty wiring or a mechanical issue with the sensor pick up points.

This assumes there is no error in the timing.

 

The engine has two timing chains, the lower driving the oil and fuel pumps, the upper driving the two cam shafts.

 

I have not worked on this engine but data suggests the timing setup is not too difficult but most likely need the engine out for chain replacement.

 

One test that can confirm the degree of phase error is to examine the electrical signals from the cam and crank sensors on an oscilloscope, some of the specialist techs can do this.

 

The engine has different chain repair kits for before 2011 that cannot be interchanged with later parts. The change occurred at engine number 1442630.

 

It maybe possible to check the timing without engine removal and examine the condition of the upper chain, but I recomend using diagnostic equipment to establish beyond doubt a mechanical issue exists before a investigation into the complete timing chain Installation .

 

Finding a competent garage that can take large vehicles and have experience with this engine may be a chalange. I suspect IVECO specialist would be better able to solve the issue.

 

It would be an idea to contact the seller and the garage that carried out the chain work for more information.

If the repair was carried out by a reputable garage then you should have some assistance to solving the issue. If it was a Fiat garage then there is a 12 month warranty on repairs .

 

It's understandable you are worried and disappointed but it can be fixed and you can then enjoy using the van.

 

Mike

[onecal]

I think a full wiring loom check is in order (now this must include all connecters)

I think it just may solve your problems without anymore expense

Regards

[Seanwinder22]

Thanks for the information buddy

My engine number is 0977118

It’s a 59 plate

you are right about getting a garage to work on it so many turned it down I have found 4 in South Yorkshire my area

I went with not the lowest quote but best review £810

All other checks have been made even mentioned in these comments Ecu sensors continuity checks and wires behind headlight

Oil change filters new sensors

The last mechanic said only one thing left buddy the timing which it’s a big job engine out we can’t do it

So hear I am now the garage came picked it up so I don’t have to drive it

Then told me had to wait for a special tool then obviously this weekend bank holiday

So Monday is the day

I wish it was wiring or sensors but checked over . All they said was no information was coming back on timing what ever that meant . They didn’t want the job I knew that

I had a good chat with the lad who tested everything I said honestly buddy is it bad ?? He said the timing hasn’t been done right or it’s not been done and maybe a tensioner or pulley a stretched. Chain

These bonnets leak bad and in winter can freeze on the chain and jump teeth so the scuttle needs sealing and tubes fitting for the leaks ????? I just hope the garage that have it and quotes know what they are doing like you say if they are hard or can’t get the parts now available

[Seanwinder22]

And thanks on saying it can be fixed and enjoyed ?? we saved up a very long time for this and the savings went into it

For this to happen so fast is disheartening on a massive scale

everyone we spoke to first said yep wiring and sensors bring it in ?? 2 days later sorry buddy it’s a head scratcher we can’t fix it

biggest garage in my area amazing reviews he even said I feel for you buddy I don’t even want to charge with no fix

It’s him that brought the mechanic out that looked at my van that’s when he said only thing now Sean is the timing mate we can’t get any information no idea what he meant

But he said get the timing done will sort the issue

Hope he’s right

But what else can it be

[onecal]

I have fond on many cases it not to be the case ,but one never knows

Have you an immobiliser fitted? and checked the loom at the back of the engine for continuity when hot and also your high pressure fuel pump checked when hot (seal kit is available) Very easily checked by a good mechanic

Regards

[Seanwinder22]

Thanks but they have been checked

In fact this sorted out the comformatic gear box issue

Every so often it would knock out on auto to manual and say check transmission handbook

We found a bend connector on the harness 4 black and purple plugs labelled EV1 EV2 EV3 EV4 the terminal inside had snapped after inspection so got us thinking could be a issue on the cam or crank

Once we pulled out the terminal it was in 2 half’s so intermittent knocking the gear box in and out of auto

That was another quote gear box out job so lucky we found that by just moving the harness with ignition on it made the bleep and that’s how we new just pure luck on the day

[mikefitz]

Have you contacted the garage that changed the chain?

 

The comment about freezing is not applicable to the 3.0 engine, its an issue that can occur on the belt drive 2.3 engine.

 

All chains, tensioners and guides are readily available at resionable cost and the timing locking pins necessary to set up the timing should be available within the garage or can be purchased at less than £20.

 

Finding the history as to why the chains were changed may help.

 

As I suggested in my last post, the sensor signals them selves should be investigated, the time period between them, the signal voltage levels. Just going of error codes is not enough, there needs to be an indepth inversivation before the engine is taken appart.

 

Mike

[onecal]

Hi

As Mike has pointed out to you the comment about freezing is not applicable to the 3.0 engine?????

So why would the chains be touched unless for very high mileage or poor oil, etc' ???? Is it the original engine?

Again I have found quite often the HP pump causes hard starting when hot, or as I have pointed out to you OR a faulty wiring loom especially connections to immoblisier.

Easy to check the injectors , sensors, etc' without replacing them by any good technician

Regards

 

[Seanwinder22]

We think it’s a lie to build a sale profile we don’t think the timing chain has been changed just don’t believe that story

We are drawn to a wiring issue

I have it with a mechanic now who I booked to do the timing chain he’s just phoned and said he doesn’t believe it’s a chain issue he’s got the van and says no noises it starts

He’s spending a few hours now checking wiring under fuse box and headlight area

I have had nick fisher email me which said Because you have a plethora of fault codes that are all presented by devices that are connected to the main engine wiring loom i would be checking first that the loom connector plug to the left hand side of the ECU in the engine bay is correctly attached, clean and undamaged; before proceeding to unpick the bindings and inspecting every inch of cable in the loom throughout the engine bay. I am confident that you will find some chaffed, broken and shorting wires that will explain your faults

 

the loom from the left side of the ECU is connected to the fusebox and passes in a large bundle underneath the nearside headlamp so the mechanic is checking first

Makes more sense then timing with it running fine no noise at all

All I know is I could go start it up now and drive 2 hours fine

But one start and turn off within 10 seconds it will not start after

But try again later or the next morning it starts

It’s ridiculous

[Seanwinder22]

I’m not not on the immobiliser mate or what it is lol but in the centre glove box is a button you press which no power will come on when you turn the key until you press this bottom

I’m told ain’t a immobiliser tho so no idea

Didn’t think that would be related to my issues tho with the timing code and cam shaft codes it starts

If this bottom was a problem I wouldn’t have power

[Seanwinder22]

It’s the original engine yes the numbers on log book and engine are the same

As I said above I think a fake profile from a dealer made this chain replaced to sell but opened a rabbit hole for us now

The receipt I have for those that did the chain have not got back to the message I left for information so stuck on that one

As we speak it’s still in the garage been with him a few days now

Instead of diving into changing the timing chain kit he’s checked wiring harness and connectors and doing his own tests

Even tho on the paper work given to me from the first garage it says all scoping tests carried out continuity tests and Ecu tests

I went yesterday to see the mechanic and gave him the information nick from euro serve gave me

[DavidAcorn]

I'm sure that its been mentioned before so sorry if I'm repeating things but I experienced a problem with the gearbox earth strap on my 3.0 ducato van. The van behaved most unusually, sometimes starting sometimes not then not at all and ultimately burnt through a thin earth wire in the harness below the engine fuse board.