laimeduck Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 We are still considering driving down to southern Spain and Portugal in Jan and Feb. I have done this trip before but only in summer. The shortest route is down via Bordeaux then Biarritz, Burgos, Valladolid, Salamanca, Cacares then on southwards. I am aware that this route passes over some high areas (1000 metres), which can be cold and possibly quite wintery. We are not set up for real winter camping, but a few nights while travelling will not be a problem as long as we have EHU. Can anyone please suggest if this route is OK for this time of year? Will I need to take my snowchains to stay legal? (Can't see why? ... And they are jolly heavy!) The alternative is to go down the med coast but this adds a few hundred miles. Thanks Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 I often used that route years past, but usually November or March (pre Br***t long stays). I was slowed up but never held up by adverse weather conditions. In Jan. or February you could expect to be held up by adverse weather conditions. On major roads they post overhead gantry advice/prewarning notices just off the highways, particularly in high pass (up to 1600m) locations, there are large refuge areas where road vehicles are expected to wait until the snow ploughs do their work. The Spanish are well prepared for this, you'll occasionally spot the odd snowplough parked up at strategic locations some poor driver waiting for hours middle of nowhere! I find winter in central and northern Spain(away from coast) to be somewhat bleak in the winter, arguably more so than the UK. That being the case I tend to drive fairly long plodding hours. You are supposed to carry chains in winter in mountainous areas, but many regard the major roads ie autopistas and autovias (probably incorrectly) as excepted! These days I quit the A63 south of Bordeaux to the Spanish coast via the Somport Tunnel, supposed to have snow chains when signs indicate. However, the instructive sign seems to lag time wise well beyond the actuality in front of me, I plough on always prepared to turn and go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 Jeremy, no experience of this but I've been playing with Autoroute. I extended you route to Huelva to give full distance, which is 1,305 miles. However, your route crosses the Meseta (at 1,200 - 3,000 feet) in winter. So, are you feeling lucky! 🙂 Alternatives to avoid the Meseta are to go round west end of the Pyrenees and along the N coast of Spain via Santiago de Compostela and then south through Portugal at 1,650 miles, or south from Calais to Perpignan and round the east end of the Pyrenees, and then either north of the Sierra Nevada via Granada at 1,587 miles, or south of the Sierra Nevada via Almeria at 1,640 miles. Almost anything between would involve either crossing the Pyrenees and the Meseta! I assume you'll finally decide nearer the time, when you can get weather forecasts for your dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 7 hours ago, laimeduck said: We are still considering driving down to southern Spain and Portugal in Jan and Feb. I have done this trip before but only in summer. The shortest route is down via Bordeaux then Biarritz, Burgos, Valladolid, Salamanca, Cacares then on southwards. Thanks Jeremy We've used that route crossing the border at Irun for 6yrs never experienced any problems weather wise. Only suggestion I'd make is do the border bit on a Sunday when theres very few lorrys thru the week their nose to tail. Can't say anything about EHU we use the aire at Angelet for Sat night then hit the border Sunday morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Have you considered the direct ferry to Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 30, 2022 Author Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 hour ago, witzend said: Have you considered the direct ferry to Spain Witzend Not really as we are 20 mins from the Tunnel! Neither of us particularly like long distance ferries - we used them in the 1980's both to Santander and Roscoff. The Santander - UK trip was a disaster.... the ferry was only about 1/4 full, so the French crew locked all bar one lounge and one sleeping lounge. both were crammed and very uncomfortable. As a protest I curled up on the floor outside the door to the bridge and refused to move so all the officers had to step over me! Sacre Bleu! We are in no rush and enjoy the drives through France. We used to take our caravan Skiing every Jan/Feb for 20 odd years, so are well used to camping in winter. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 When I used to travel to the Algarve in the autumn/winter I would go via Irun, Burgos, Madrid, Cordoba, Seville, Huelva and into Portugal at Vila Real de Sta. Antonio, all autovia no towns or cities to negotiate. IIRC no traffic light hold ups or the like for more than 1000km! Quite a few people fear getting past Madrid, but absolutely no problem with inner, middle and outer ring routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 3 hours ago, laimeduck said: Witzend Not really as we are 20 mins from the Tunnel! Neither of us particularly like long distance ferries - we used them in the 1980's both to Santander and Roscoff. The Santander - UK trip was a disaster.... the ferry was only about 1/4 full, so the French crew locked all bar one lounge and one sleeping lounge. both were crammed and very uncomfortable. As a protest I curled up on the floor outside the door to the bridge and refused to move so all the officers had to step over me! Sacre Bleu! We are in no rush and enjoy the drives through France. We used to take our caravan Skiing every Jan/Feb for 20 odd years, so are well used to camping in winter. Jeremy Keep too the coast and you should have no problems, we have had snow on the costa blanca, but it was just a light dusting and a novelty, where as inland they major problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 We have done this trip about 10 times in January and returned March, we were probably lucky and never had any snow on the way down. If there is any snow forecast then the snow ploughs are at the side of the road waiting. There are a couple of hight spots Beja probably the highest and all we have seen is a snow flurry. We always used the free aires in France and Spain, France the water will be off so carry some or buy it in Supermarkets but Spain will have water on. The return trip in March has always been pleasant until reaching the Channel coast where we have had snow on. 2 occasions but not enough to stop us. The route we preferred was Calais, Rouen, Tours, Bordeaux, Vitoria Gasteiz, Salamanca, Caceres, Seville and the Algarve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 On my way back from Spain last week via Somport Tunnel there were road signs indicating winter tyre requirements that are in operation from November 1st to 31st March. https://www.french-property.com/news/french_life/winter_tyres_obligatory_mountain_areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 53 minutes ago, rayc said: On my way back from Spain last week via Somport Tunnel there were road signs indicating winter tyre requirements that are in operation from November 1st to 31st March. https://www.french-property.com/news/french_life/winter_tyres_obligatory_mountain_areas True enough. I've been going Somport tunnelling November time for some years now including throughout the Covid era (legally). I keep an eye out for the Abierto/Ouvert signs and if these are showing I just assess the actual conditions as I get to the higher winding approaches. The snow ploughs are out doing their thing even in an occasional snow flurry. Occasionally see a gendarme or guardia civil/policia at the roadside, but nada at the tunnel portals even in Covid times, let alone stopped. I don't have winter tyres. Not advocating anyone should do the same, but avoiding Irun and a length of the N10 makes it worthwhile for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 I went through the Mt Blanc tunnel hundreds of times when you were supposed to have winter tyres and snow chains but this was never checked. I think the only time you are likely to get done for not having them is if you have lost traction and are blocking the road. But someone else will be losing traction and blocking the road long before you. Like a lorry with many axles and only one of them driving wheels, so a far higher percentage of dead weight. I would only be concerned about that if I had a tag axle motorhome where most of the weight is deadweight not on the driving wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, John52 said: I went through the Mt Blanc tunnel hundreds of times Mont Blanc tunnel goes into Italy Laime Duck is asking about route to Spain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Somport is a bloody long tunnel. I think it actually goes via Italy! Yep, I know, Mont Blanc even longer and infinitely more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 42 minutes ago, witzend said: Mont Blanc tunnel goes into Italy Laime Duck is asking about route to Spain Yes - but they are very similar. As I recall the climb up to the Mt Blanc tunnel is more serious, so I guess they would be at least as concerned with the winter tyre and snowchain regs. I recall the road being blcked by a lorry with no snow chains that couldn't get traction - but it was a 6 axle with only 1 axle driving - maybe 80% deadweight. In the same way a train can be unable to gain enough traction to get moving because of leaves on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 31, 2022 Author Share Posted October 31, 2022 We won't be going through Somport on the way down. I have got Michelin Agilis Camper M&S tyres fitted which I understand are accepted as "winter" tyres in France. I think that even though the mileage is greater going down the Med coast I am veering towards doing that which should minimise snow and ice. (Who knows what conditions will be like in northern and central France though!? We will probably track down via Orleans, Bourges, Clermont Ferrand, Beziers, ) We have done the Valladolid route in 2017 via Pau and the Col du Pourtalet (or Portaloo as we call it!), but have not driven down the Med coast since the 1970's, other than joining it at Estepona from the north in 2017 before venturing further west to the Algarve and up through Portugal. As I say, we are not in any rush, If the weather is reasonable we are happy to dawdle down along the coast. We have no desire to sit on a beach anywhere, so will meander around and explore the small towns maybe away from the coast. If the journey takes a couple of weeks or so, so be it. Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 6 hours ago, John52 said: Yes - but they are very similar. As I recall the climb up to the Mt Blanc tunnel is more serious, so I guess they would be at least as concerned with the winter tyre and snowchain regs. No chains in Tunnel so approach roads always well salted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 There was an extremely detailed article on winter routes through France and Spain (with nearly 40 stopping points) published by MMM in Sept 2019. Three years old now, but maybe worth a look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 3 years old? No problem, just update all references to weather conditions to account for global warming 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said: There was an extremely detailed article on winter routes through France and Spain (with nearly 40 stopping points) published by MMM in Sept 2019. Three years old now, but maybe worth a look? Thanks, but I can't get my hands on that article. There was also one in 2015, but its all about travelling down through Pamplona and through the middle of Spain. Not really what I want to do in winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsupdoc Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 It does actually detail several routes - a route through France (Calais-Rouen-Nonancourt-Poitiers-Bayonne-Pamplona) and then various routes through Spain depending on where you want to end up, although it does assume one of the Costa. I do have a .pdf of the article if you're interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 54 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said: It does actually detail several routes - a route through France (Calais-Rouen-Nonancourt-Poitiers-Bayonne-Pamplona) and then various routes through Spain depending on where you want to end up, although it does assume one of the Costa. I do have a .pdf of the article if you're interested. That's very kind of you, thanks. I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address. Thanks Jeremy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIGGER Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 On 10/29/2022 at 2:16 PM, laimeduck said: We are still considering driving down to southern Spain and Portugal in Jan and Feb. I have done this trip before but only in summer. The shortest route is down via Bordeaux then Biarritz, Burgos, Valladolid, Salamanca, Cacares then on southwards. I am aware that this route passes over some high areas (1000 metres), which can be cold and possibly quite wintery. We are not set up for real winter camping, but a few nights while travelling will not be a problem as long as we have EHU. Can anyone please suggest if this route is OK for this time of year? Will I need to take my snowchains to stay legal? (Can't see why? ... And they are jolly heavy!) The alternative is to go down the med coast but this adds a few hundred miles. Thanks Jeremy https://tinyurl.com/yc6ecsry This is our usual route , in winter yes you can get snow but we have NEVER had a problem, We usually stay at Vitoria Gasteiz AIRE free on route, for a few nights .lovely town especially around Christmas Caseres too great at Christmas good aire there but NO electric but we never need that anyway ,had about a foot of snow there one trip but roads all good, it all depends where you want to be in Spain of course on the route you take, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIGGER Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 https://ibb.co/HGjVrD6 Not so easy to do this these days but WOW great trips we had , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIGGER Posted November 6, 2022 Share Posted November 6, 2022 https://ibb.co/ngFpp1Z WILD CAMPING TO SPAIN/PORTUGAL WINTER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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