B Dobson Posted November 24, 2022 Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: Nope thats not quite what I said. I think I said it will have affected them all. So you could go to a posh eatery that was always excellent before but maybe their French chef is no longer here or there are less staff and its all a bit of a struggle so its just not as good. Other places are absolutely now trying to cut costs as well as having to cope with less staff so it all adds to the standards and quality going down. Thats if they are even open. Many of the places we went this year were simply shut half the week because of lack of staff. If you havent noticed any difference in service standards and quality then I can only draw the conclusion that maybe you are not that fussy. "maybe their French chef is no longer here". Goodness me when was the last time you went anywhere to eat never mind a "posh eatery" to form that opinion? Everywhere if you havent noticed are "trying to cut costs" because guess what fuel and gas and electric costs have shot up so obviously their prices have also and thats nowt to do with your eternal obsession of Brexit . Ive eaten out in many places both here and abroad and cant say Ive noticed any "difference in standards", you obviously have (chuckle) wherever youve bought your doner kebabs from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 2 hours ago, B Dobson said: "maybe their French chef is no longer here". Goodness me when was the last time you went anywhere to eat never mind a "posh eatery" to form that opinion? Everywhere if you havent noticed are "trying to cut costs" because guess what fuel and gas and electric costs have shot up so obviously their prices have also and thats nowt to do with your eternal obsession of Brexit . Ive eaten out in many places both here and abroad and cant say Ive noticed any "difference in standards", you obviously have (chuckle) wherever youve bought your doner kebabs from Silly boy. Ill bet you your house Ive eaten in more restaurants in my lifetime than you have. Certainly top notch ones. in fact even the middle of the road ones. We know that prices have gone up because of the energy crisis but why cant you accept that we have the added double whammy of Brexit which according to just about everyone involved in hospitality has said is massively hindering their ability to recruit staff! Even big no deal Brexiteer Tim Martin has admitted that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 7 hours ago, Barryd999 said: Silly boy. Ill bet you your house Ive eaten in more restaurants in my lifetime than you have. Certainly top notch ones. in fact even the middle of the road ones. We know that prices have gone up because of the energy crisis but why cant you accept that we have the added double whammy of Brexit which according to just about everyone involved in hospitality has said is massively hindering their ability to recruit staff! Even big no deal Brexiteer Tim Martin has admitted that! We aren't on about the 1990s when you supposedly worked in every town and city in the UK though are we . As for hospitality shortages France has nearly 250.000 vacancies with Germany and Holland suffering also, Holland has nearly 500.000 vacant work positions unfilled! and none of them I believe have had Brexit? Even the good old USA apparently has 97% of hotels having staff shortages with 49% of hotels experiencing severe shortages . Listen I know you love to blame Brexit on anything and everything and its with you 24/7 but if you cant see the reality that everywhere is suffering and its basically nothing to do with Brexit then your goggle glasses are even more blinkered than I thought . What week is our hotel industry going to collapse because the MIL is away next week so I might warn her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 10 hours ago, Barryd999 said: Silly boy. Ill bet you your house Ive eaten in more restaurants in my lifetime than you have. Certainly top notch ones. in fact even the middle of the road ones. We know that prices have gone up because of the energy crisis but why cant you accept that we have the added double whammy of Brexit which according to just about everyone involved in hospitality has said is massively hindering their ability to recruit staff! Even big no deal Brexiteer Tim Martin has admitted that! Well that is pretty evident from the selfies you post🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 16 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: Back to food prices, I've been looking at our recent experience in France in September/October this year. At home, we use our local Tesco (80%) and Waitrose (20%). In France we visited E Leclerc (x3), Carrefour (x6), Casino (Geant) (x1), Super U (x2) and Intermarche (x1). We were in France for 7 weeks, so for comparison I've taken our Tesco/Waitrose food coasts over a similar period, split either side of the trip. No booze included. Result: UK £102 per week, France £111 per week, so France about 10% more expensive. But food prices vary around France, as well as between supermarket chains, plus food carries 5.5% VAT in France and 0% in UK. Also, our shopping/eating habits vary between home (with a "proper" kitchen), and the van (with its hob only and a small fridge), so we invariably buy more, smaller, pre-packed salad, meat, and fish while away, which is inevitably more expensive. So yes, food in France was more expensive, though I'd say "marginally", rather than "much", more so. But then, diesel was cheaper (about £1.50/litre on average), campsites cheaper, wine cheaper, and eating out, on a like for like basis, both cheaper and better. So you know more about food prices in France than the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 4 hours ago, B Dobson said: We aren't on about the 1990s when you supposedly worked in every town and city in the UK though are we . As for hospitality shortages France has nearly 250.000 vacancies with Germany and Holland suffering also, Holland has nearly 500.000 vacant work positions unfilled! and none of them I believe have had Brexit? Even the good old USA apparently has 97% of hotels having staff shortages with 49% of hotels experiencing severe shortages . Listen I know you love to blame Brexit on anything and everything and its with you 24/7 but if you cant see the reality that everywhere is suffering and its basically nothing to do with Brexit then your goggle glasses are even more blinkered than I thought . What week is our hotel industry going to collapse because the MIL is away next week so I might warn her? Ill make it simple for you. I think we agree that there are labour shortages in many countries not just the UK. Britain added to its problems by ending free movement where it heavily relied on European workers. Now, do you think that has added to our labour shortage problem or made it somehow better? I worked all over the country until about 2010 by the way and yes over twenty odd years probably in just about every single town with a population of maybe 80000+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: Ill make it simple for you. I think we agree that there are labour shortages in many countries not just the UK. Britain added to its problems by ending free movement where it heavily relied on European workers. Now, do you think that has added to our labour shortage problem or made it somehow better? I worked all over the country until about 2010 by the way and yes over twenty odd years probably in just about every single town with a population of maybe 80000+ I don't believe it's made a dot of difference . If it had we'd be in a worse position than others but we aren't, well in your head we are . As for you working away I bet you wish you'd taken salad sandwiches to work now instead of all those kebab takeaways . Is my MIL safe to go to a hotel.next week or is our "hugely" worse off hotel.industry going to crash, she'd like to know from you as someone who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 7 minutes ago, B Dobson said: I don't believe it's made a dot of difference . If it had we'd be in a worse position than others but we aren't, well in your head we are . As for you working away I bet you wish you'd taken salad sandwiches to work now instead of all those kebab takeaways . Is my MIL safe to go to a hotel.next week or is our "hugely" worse off hotel.industry going to crash, she'd like to know from you as someone who knows? I would expect such an answer from Dave Pelmet but your better than that. Perhaps the Torygraph will convince you or maybe ask you mother in law to ask the owner of the hotel she is visiting what he or she thinks. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/post-brexit-labour-market-malfunctioning-mess/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: I would expect such an answer from Dave Pelmet but your better than that. Perhaps the Torygraph will convince you or maybe ask you mother in law to ask the owner of the hotel she is visiting what he or she thinks. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/08/16/post-brexit-labour-market-malfunctioning-mess/ I don't read the Telegraph and never have . I read your link though and found the bit most interesting was where the authors say they acknowledge other countries have exactly the same issue as us and they haven't had Brexit or altered their immigration laws? . As for the MIL I believe this is the 4th time this year that her and her friends have stayed in the same hotel, each time coming back praising the hotel and surprisingly it's food . This year I've stayed in 3 hotels here and 3 in France and can't say I've noticed any difference in accommodation or food than any hotel stay before . Oh and the missus had 2 nights in London with my eldest granddaughter which again she could only praise, what's been your hotel experience this year that's helped you form your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, B Dobson said: I don't read the Telegraph and never have . I read your link though and found the bit most interesting was where the authors say they acknowledge other countries have exactly the same issue as us and they haven't had Brexit or altered their immigration laws? . As for the MIL I believe this is the 4th time this year that her and her friends have stayed in the same hotel, each time coming back praising the hotel and surprisingly it's food . This year I've stayed in 3 hotels here and 3 in France and can't say I've noticed any difference in accommodation or food than any hotel stay before . Oh and the missus had 2 nights in London with my eldest granddaughter which again she could only praise, what's been your hotel experience this year that's helped you form your opinion? The report says exactly what I have been saying. Yes other countries have had labour shortages but Brexit has made ours worse. How could it not? I dont need to stay in a hotel to know there is an issue. I have talked to enough hoteliers and listened to their opinions and they all say the same. Go and ask any hotelier you like in the Lake District if Brexit has affected them. Any single one and long before the pandemic and covid also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: The report says exactly what I have been saying. Yes other countries have had labour shortages but Brexit has made ours worse. How could it not? I dont need to stay in a hotel to know there is an issue. I have talked to enough hoteliers and listened to their opinions and they all say the same. Go and ask any hotelier you like in the Lake District if Brexit has affected them. Any single one and long before the pandemic and covid also. Your hard work Barryd999 . If it's worse here because of Brexit why are the French struggling more, why is their hotel.industry on its knees and ours seems to be ticking along just nicely in my experience . The reality is you want it to be worse even though it's not just so you can scream Brexit . So you don't eat out but claim our pub and eateries food is rubbish and you don't stay in hotels and claim ours are in worse place than the French? I think I get ya . Big red bus for one ding ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, B Dobson said: Your hard work Barryd999 . If it's worse here because of Brexit why are the French struggling more, why is their hotel.industry on its knees and ours seems to be ticking along just nicely in my experience . The reality is you want it to be worse even though it's not just so you can scream Brexit . So you don't eat out but claim our pub and eateries food is rubbish and you don't stay in hotels and claim ours are in worse place than the French? I think I get ya . Big red bus for one ding ding Lets go back in time shall we. It took me 30 seconds to find these. https://www.thecaterer.com/news/restaurant/assaggi-owner-blames-brexit-for-staff-shortage https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/copthorne-hotel-blames-brexit-after-2555509 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/brexit-eu-nationals-exodus-jobs-recruitment There are hundreds of others. No covid, no War in Europe and this was all before we actually left! Do you remember the 96% drop in applications to the NHS from Europe not long after the Brexit vote? Covid and the Ukraine were a gift for Boris Johnson. They clouded the Brexit damage and now because other countries are also suffering labour shortages you are still doing it now. Our self inflicted wounds were created long before other countries suffered and whichever way you look at it be it staffing shortages, the economy, price of goods, ease of trade, control of our borders etc all of them have had in addition to the problems caused by Covid and Russia's war a Brexit impact and that Brexit impact has always been negative and looks to remain that way. If you disagree then please, lets have some examples of how its had a positive impact in any of those areas I mention instead of posting up repeated whataboutery from France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Barry Lineker said: So you know more about food prices in France than the EU? Possibly. I do know how much we paid in France, and how much we pay in UK. Are you disputing that? I qualified what I said with reference to different shopping and eating habits when away compared to when at home; and to our loop trip taking us through a number of French regions; so some of the price differences would be due to regional price variation, and some to our shopping involving five different supermarket chains, each of which has varying price structures, plus 5.5% VAT on food in France and 0% VAT on food in UK. The result, as I said, was that France worked out 10% more expensive compared to our home shopping. Isn't that what the "EU" said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: Lets go back in time shall we. It took me 30 seconds to find these. https://www.thecaterer.com/news/restaurant/assaggi-owner-blames-brexit-for-staff-shortage https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/business/copthorne-hotel-blames-brexit-after-2555509 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/25/brexit-eu-nationals-exodus-jobs-recruitment There are hundreds of others. No covid, no War in Europe and this was all before we actually left! Do you remember the 96% drop in applications to the NHS from Europe not long after the Brexit vote? Covid and the Ukraine were a gift for Boris Johnson. They clouded the Brexit damage and now because other countries are also suffering labour shortages you are still doing it now. Our self inflicted wounds were created long before other countries suffered and whichever way you look at it be it staffing shortages, the economy, price of goods, ease of trade, control of our borders etc all of them have had in addition to the problems caused by Covid and Russia's war a Brexit impact and that Brexit impact has always been negative and looks to remain that way. If you disagree then please, lets have some examples of how its had a positive impact in any of those areas I mention instead of posting up repeated whataboutery from France. So we had a head start, a fairly big head start on let's say france so we should be trashed by now then shouldn't we? It shouldn't be Frances hotel industry that's on its knees it should be ours but you show nothing to prove our hospitality industry is in a "hugely" worse place than the French, with or without Brexit . It's not whataboutery it's simply asking for proof of what you claim and you show nowt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 42 minutes ago, B Dobson said: So we had a head start, a fairly big head start on let's say france so we should be trashed by now then shouldn't we? It shouldn't be Frances hotel industry that's on its knees it should be ours but you show nothing to prove our hospitality industry is in a "hugely" worse place than the French, with or without Brexit . It's not whataboutery it's simply asking for proof of what you claim and you show nowt Eh? I have highlighted to you how it was already a problem here before Covid and the War in Ukraine. Its now been long proven than Brexit is damaging the economy to a tune of 4% and its long been well known that its affected the UK labour market massively long before either Covid or the War in Ukraine started. Are you suggesting that somehow its no longer affecting the labour market just because other countries are having problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: Eh? I have highlighted to you how it was already a problem here before Covid and the War in Ukraine. Its now been long proven than Brexit is damaging the economy to a tune of 4% and its long been well known that its affected the UK labour market massively long before either Covid or the War in Ukraine started. Are you suggesting that somehow its no longer affecting the labour market just because other countries are having problems? Eh? I said we had a "head start" didn't I? That means if you are correct and we were already in the doo-da in the hospitality sector before Covid and before the Ukraine and given that the French hotel industry is "on its knees" and they didn't have Brexit we should be totally and utterly out of business, especially given you claim our problems in hospitality are "hugely worse" than in France or anywhere . Now I aren't seeing that and you seem to be the expert so explain just where are we here in Blighty if the issue in France is so bad and you claim what you claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, B Dobson said: Eh? I said we had a "head start" didn't I? That means if you are correct and we were already in the doo-da in the hospitality sector before Covid and before the Ukraine and given that the French hotel industry is "on its knees" and they didn't have Brexit we should be totally and utterly out of business, especially given you claim our problems in hospitality are "hugely worse" than in France or anywhere . Now I aren't seeing that and you seem to be the expert so explain just where are we here in Blighty if the issue in France is so bad and you claim what you claim? How do you know our problems are not worse than those of France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Dobson Posted November 25, 2022 Author Share Posted November 25, 2022 17 minutes ago, Barryd999 said: How do you know our problems are not worse than those of France? Common sense would tell us that if a fella who heads up the worlds 6th largest hotel group that just happens to be French claims their hotel industry is "on its knees" and you tell us over and over and over again that our hospitality issues are "hugely worse" than elsewhere then one might expect we would have mass hotel closures going on in every single town and every city dont ya think? Now if you can answer honestly for once are you seeing that because I dont? So one would assume that either hes wrong or you are and lets be honest given your track record my money is a pretty safe bet on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: Possibly. I do know how much we paid in France, and how much we pay in UK. Are you disputing that? I qualified what I said with reference to different shopping and eating habits when away compared to when at home; and to our loop trip taking us through a number of French regions; so some of the price differences would be due to regional price variation, and some to our shopping involving five different supermarket chains, each of which has varying price structures, plus 5.5% VAT on food in France and 0% VAT on food in UK. The result, as I said, was that France worked out 10% more expensive compared to our home shopping. Isn't that what the "EU" said? Wow, that's a whopper of an ego you've got going on there Brian. The EU have missed a trick employing all those economists when they could have just had you🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 37 minutes ago, B Dobson said: Common sense would tell us that if a fella who heads up the worlds 6th largest hotel group that just happens to be French claims their hotel industry is "on its knees" and you tell us over and over and over again that our hospitality issues are "hugely worse" than elsewhere then one might expect we would have mass hotel closures going on in every single town and every city dont ya think? Now if you can answer honestly for once are you seeing that because I dont? So one would assume that either hes wrong or you are and lets be honest given your track record my money is a pretty safe bet on you Well perhaps you are right then. Perhaps it is as bad in France as it is here despite our Brexit head start, something which you agreed with earlier. So how is it fixed? More immigration probably but its a lot easier for someone in Poland to go work in France to help them out than it is for them to come here now isn't it? How are we in the UK going to solve our Labour Shortage problem post Brexit? I know the answer as do you from a similar post elsewhere on internet land. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 8 hours ago, Barry Lineker said: So you know more about food prices in France than the EU? Typical ad hom attack, but no answers to my points. Others can work out why! 😉 As I said, I found food prices in France to be about 10% higher than the UK. Do you dispute that? What you may be missing is that the report you were quoting refers to 2020, when we were still in the EU, whereas what I was quoting were prices in UK and France during August, September, October, and November 2022. So, times (and price relativities) change. You needed to update your source material to 2022 prices if you're going to quote it as current, but you didn't (and can't, because the Eurostat reports no longer include UK Consumer prices. We left, if you remember.) OTOH, I quoted comparative prices, as I found them, this year. So, if you want to quibble, prove me wrong. But you can't do that either, because you weren't in the same places, buying the same goods, at the same time as I was. It ain't 'arf 'ard work, this, ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said: Typical ad hom attack, but no answers to my points. Others can work out why! 😉 As I said, I found food prices in France to be about 10% higher than the UK. Do you dispute that? What you may be missing is that the report you were quoting refers to 2020, when we were still in the EU, whereas what I was quoting were prices in UK and France during August, September, October, and November 2022. So, times (and price relativities) change. You needed to update your source material to 2022 prices if you're going to quote it as current, but you didn't (and can't, because the Eurostat reports no longer include UK Consumer prices. We left, if you remember.) OTOH, I quoted comparative prices, as I found them, this year. So, if you want to quibble, prove me wrong. But you can't do that either, because you weren't in the same places, buying the same goods, at the same time as I was. It ain't 'arf 'ard work, this, ain't it? Another point too Brian. As France capped their energy at 4% whilst ours went to 54% and climbing, cooking their food and heating their homes will be lots lots cheaper than UK where people are reduced to asking for foods which require minimal cooking, and relying on 'warm banks' and riding around on buses all day to keep warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said: Typical ad hom attack, but no answers to my points. Others can work out why! 😉 As I said, I found food prices in France to be about 10% higher than the UK. Do you dispute that? What you may be missing is that the report you were quoting refers to 2020, when we were still in the EU, whereas what I was quoting were prices in UK and France during August, September, October, and November 2022. So, times (and price relativities) change. You needed to update your source material to 2022 prices if you're going to quote it as current, but you didn't (and can't, because the Eurostat reports no longer include UK Consumer prices. We left, if you remember.) OTOH, I quoted comparative prices, as I found them, this year. So, if you want to quibble, prove me wrong. But you can't do that either, because you weren't in the same places, buying the same goods, at the same time as I was. It ain't 'arf 'ard work, this, ain't it? Oh dear Brian, it didn't take long for you to start waving your favourite ad hominem flag🤣 But if you want to carry on thinking that you know better than your wonderful EU, why do I need to intervene with your arguement with EU? 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 17 hours ago, Barry Lineker said: Oh dear Brian, it didn't take long for you to start waving your favourite ad hominem flag🤣 But if you want to carry on thinking that you know better than your wonderful EU, why do I need to intervene with your arguement with EU? 🤣 Translation? Sorry, I hadn't noticed that my info was 2 years old! Silly me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Lineker Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 6 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: Translation? Sorry, I hadn't noticed that my info was 2 years old! Silly me. Here's some up to date info for you, which shows that food in France is currently 19% more expensive than here. https://expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/france/united-kingdom These prices were last updated on November 26, 2022. Exchange rate: 1.161 EUR / GBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.