van weight engineering

[chudders1]

I want to up plate the weight of my motorhome and have tried to contact van weight engineering by their email address but get no reply. They do not appear to have a phone number. Has anyone contacted them successfully

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks,, Dave

[ColinM50]

No phone number and no reply to emails? Doesn't bode well for the future does it?

[chudders1]

apologies for not replying earlier. No still not had a response from them. Back to SV tech I guess unless there is another company that does up plating

Thanks

[Derek Uzzell]

There are 143 GOOGLE reviews for this company, with the most recent being just 2 days old

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Van+Weight+Engineering/@47.73855,12.5088275,4z/data=!4m7!3m6!1s0x0:0xed42f0c4067e93ef!8m2!3d47.73855!4d12.5088275!9m1!1b1

Try phoning Dee Thorne on  07568 981882 

[chudders1]

Thanks for the reply, I will try the number you suggest in the morning

Will let you know how I get on

Thanks for your help

Dave

[silverback]

https://www.vanweightengineering.com/contact

+447568981882

Whatsapp +359895980249

the above stuff I used in March 2022 I found them excellent and much much cheaper than SV tech

Jonathan

[chudders1]

Have now tried ringing the number helpfully given in above post but only brief answering message inviting to leave a message. Have called a few times and got the answering machine. Left a message for a call back but nothing yet.

Thanks everyone above for trying to assist me to make contact

Edit, Sorry don't do Facebook or Whats App so those avenues of contact are not appropriate for me. Thanks for the information.

Dave

[Brian Kirby]

This is all making me a trifle nervous!  🙂 

I noticed that the link in Derek's post above appeared to include the GPS coordinates N47.73855 E12.5088275.  So, I stuck that into Google Earth and arrived in the middle of a forest in Southern Bavaria, about 3 miles west of a town called Unterwossen! 

Maybe they are off on holiday in their self converted van and use their GPS to position themselves for contacts.

However, looking at one of the VIN plates photographed in Derek's link, the name inscribed is S&T LLP Vehicle Weight Engineering. 

According to Companies House, LLP = Limited Liability Partnership, to be which, the Partnership has to be incorporated as a Company and registered at Companies House. 

So I searched the Companies House register to see where their registered office was, and who are the significant officers, and couldn't find "S&T LLP", "Vehicle Weight Engineering", or "S&T LLP Vehicle Weight Engineering" under any heading.  Not my field, but I've not had difficulty finding companies in the past.

However, I thought it just a bit odd that a bona fide company would choose to conceal their postal address, leaving only phone number and g.mail, Instagrem and Facebook as contact media, so I ran a new search looking for Dee Thorne as an officer, and found Dee-Micheal Thorne of Spokes and Thorne LLP, 49 Station Road, Mickleover, Derbys.  Two members,  Dee-Michael Thorne and Claire Marie Spokes. And, when I looked at 49 Station Road Mickleover on Google earth it turns out to be a quite modest semi-detached house in a mostly residential street.  None of this proves anything, but bearing in mind the engineering qualification required for certification and alteration of vehicle VIN Plates, it seems odd that a company with no declared area of activity would be doing this.

So, all in all, quite a lot struck me as odd, and I think anyone contemplating using the firm might be well advised to investigate their credentials for the work they are doing.  I also notice that Dee Michael Thorne was previously named Edwards "for business purposes" but I couldn't find a Dee-Michael Edwards at Companies house, so have no idea what that previous business might have been.

[chudders1]

Thats a lot of research, grateful for your efforts, I guess I will wait a while in case as you say they are on holiday. In any case I am having second thoughts about up plating. I have just got my C1 licence re instated having let it lapse when I got to 70. Incidentally an easy process and I think it was 9 days for DVLA to process and return my new C1 licence.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for comments and efforts.

[Derek Uzzell]

I think the first motorhome-related reference to Van Weight Engineering (VWE) was in this February 2021 MotorHomeFun forum thread.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/van-weight-engineering-a-new-option-for-up-plating-uprating-downplating-motorhomes.235855/

and the results of this GOOGLE-search of the MHFun forum using "Van Weight Engineering" as the search-term retrieves subsequent comments mentioning that company.

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=&as_epq=van+weight+engineering&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorhomefun.co.uk%2Fforum%2F&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&tbs= 

I did some cursory 'investigation' when I was looking to see if I could find a telephone contact number and - as Brian found - it all seemed rather strange. However MHFUn members who've used VWE seem happy enough with the company's service (most importantly of course, the company's competitive charge!) and the DVSA are plainly prepared to accept VWE's documentation.

[rayc]

I used them last year and they are accepted by DVLA as authorised to issue vehicle design weight certificates to enable weight up and down plating. I had excellent and professional  service from Dee

[colin]

"Never judge a book by it's cover", I'll never forget the look on Shuhei Nakamoto's face when he visited my workshop, being used to clinically clean workshops I think he thought we where having a joke when he entered the 'pig pens'.

[Steve928]

Another happy VWE customer here, but one who has been surprised recently at the degree of up-plating that they will now approve - and DVLA accept. Sevel's designers thought that at 4250Kg the chassis needed larger brakes all round, stronger springs, larger hubs with bigger wheel bolts at an increased PCD, possibly more. But now just the addition of rear air bags will let you loose into the mountains with your light chassis plated at 4350Kg. (1850F+2500R). I think it's still the case that SV Tech limit the light chassis to 4100 and even then require stronger front springs to cope with the increased weight transference. It does make you (OK, me) wonder what testing and evidence these companies have had to present to DVLA to be authorised to sign-off such changes.

This in comparison to up-plating in Germany where the TuV (sorry, can't find the Umlaut key) will not authorise rear axle upgrades above the light chassis 2000Kg without a wheel change as Sevel have not and will not rate their 5x118 wheels above 1000Kg. 

[Robinhood]

33 minutes ago, Steve928 said:

It does make you (OK, me) wonder what testing and evidence these companies have had to present to DVLA to be authorised to sign-off such changes.

It's rather easy to be drawn into conjecture, and so I will.

Given various write-ups, and recent practice (the late John Ruffles, for example), my suspicion is that DVSA do very little checking of the background of the certifying body/person, other than look for a reasonably relevant engineering qualification.

Certainly that's a start, but it wouldn't be enough for me. There's an awful lot more goes in to ensuring that a design/weight change is viable and safe, (as opposed to certifying to the DVSA) particularly when even the characteristics of a given model such as the Ducato can vary so much from vehicle to vehicle.

I can't specifically comment on VWE competence, and they may well be entirely so. The background, and the fact that they are prepared to underwrite increases in excess of other, established players, (and as Steve says TüV) would concern me somewhat.

I wonder what level of liability insurance they carry?

[weldted]

I contacted them about having my Burstner uprated. The weights they quote it could be upgraded to were concerning. Given the layout of this van if I had accepted this would have put a massive load over the rear axle so declined.

[chudders1]

Still had no reply to my message on the phone number quoted in previous post which was their number as the answering referred to them. No response yet to the forms I filled out and submitted. I will wait a little longer just in case they are on holiday etc.

Could I ask weldted post above what they quoted for your Burstner as I also have a Burstner but probably not the same model as you have

Ta

[weldted]

It’s a 2019 Burstner Iexo 736 A class I cant remember the quote but it was cheaper than SV but VWE quoted to take it up to 5 tons. Using SV I took it up to 4500kg with no mods required. To go more would need semi air, but as this vans main storage is in the rear garage a long way back from the rear axle I stayed at 4500.

[chudders1]

welted, thanks for that. I have a Nexxo t720 and may wish to uprate but I think it will need air suspension added at the rear to get an increase on back axle.

Air Ride I guess it would have to be but I am having second thoughts about doing it and will have to be more frugal on what is loaded. Thats why I was hoping for Van Weight Engineerings comments

Thanks

[stevec176]

Not having had a van upgraded I can't really comment but I would be very concerned about using this company, is the difference in what you've been quoted by another company that much? Have you contacted another company to see what upgrades would be required so that you've got a comparison with VWE. I'd prefer to be safe even if it costs a few pound more.

[Derek Uzzell]

3 hours ago, chudders1 said:

...I have a Nexxo t720 and may wish to uprate but I think it will need air suspension added at the rear to get an increase on back axle...

I believe Burstner produced the T720 during the 2012 to 2016 model-years.

It's a long  design (just a whisker under 7.5m) with a twin single-bed layout and a bathroom at the very rear. It was built on a 'light' Fiat Ducato camping-car chassis and would normally have been marketed with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) of 3500kg, with (possibly) 2014-onwards Ducato X290 versions having a 3650kg GVW as an option. On-line T720 adverts normally quote a 3500kg GVW, though this one quotes 3700kg, so might have had its GVW uprated.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/motorhome-details/202301183373043?advertising-location=at_motorhomes

Given its length and rear overhang, a T720 would probably benefit from a 'semi -air' kit on its rear axle at 3500kg, never mind at a higher GVW. The standard tyre specification for a 'light' Ducato camping-car chassis is 215/70 R15CP and any significant increase to the rear axle's maximum authorised loading would require a tyre size increase to 225/70 R15CP. 

I'm guessing that SvTech would suggest a GVW increase to 3850kg with a recommendation that a semi-air kit be fitted and - if the vehicle has 215/70 R15CP tyres - that these be replaced by 225/70 R15CP ones. Any suggested GVW increase beyond that would (in my view) be questionable.

[chudders1]

Thanks for your comments. My motorhome is fitted from new with 225/75 R16 tyres so semi air may be the way to go. I would be more than happy with 3850 upgrade with air suspension   and that would raise the rear to 2400kg. I also understand that it could go to 3700 with no modifications BUT that would  keep the same axle weights ie 1850 front and 2000 on the rear so there is little point in a GVW of 3700. (Thats not always realised when some get a vehicle upgrade to MAM.) In reality I would be happy with an extra 100 kgs on the rear but thats not an option without going the whole route.

Thanks for your comments

 

[Keithl]

Chudders,

Do you know if your Burstner is on a Light or a Heavy chassis? 

Keith.

[Brian Kirby]

9 hours ago, Robinhood said:

.................................................I wonder what level of liability insurance they carry?

So do I!  🙂 

But I also wonder what DVSA would say were a vehicle uprated beyond its safe working capacity to be involved in an accident where that uprating was held to be a contributory factor?  The driver is the primary culprit, as I understand it, but under those circumstances would surely defend him/herself by saying that they had relied on Spokes and Thorne LLP doing the uprating as being fully competent to do so, and on DVSA's acceptance of their uprating recommendations as confirmation that the company was, indeed, adequately qualified. 

Would DVSA then seek to rely solely on the defence that the uprating recommendations provided adequate evidence of competence, or would they have sought, obtained, and confirmed, proof that the person concerned was properly competent and qualified to make such recommendations?

Unless DVSA actually do the latter, and have a list of such firms, with verified credentials, whose uprating calculations they are willing to accept as adequate evidence for agreeing to sanction the proposed uprating, the whole system seems to me open to abuse.  So I still find all this a bit odd, and somewhat unsettling.  The more so when I see that the business premises are a semi-detached house in a residential street, and the only way to get that address is via Companies House.  And even more when their only published means of contact is Facebook, Instagram and e-mail. 

I'm not suggesting that a suitably qualified mechanical or automotive engineer could not carry out reasonable uprating assessments from their back bedroom, just that, as Bod suggests above, they should have adequate PI insurance in order to do so, and that someone (presumably DVSA) should have seen evidence of that insurance before accepting then as competent to propose such changes.  Even odder, when they seem to have gone to ground!  For some reason, it just niggles!  🙂 

[Derek Uzzell]

As I said earlier, all Burstner T720 motorhomes were built on a 'light' Ducato camping-car chassis with Burstner specifying a GVW of 3500kg. Chudders1 has not said when his motorhome was built, but the fact that it has 16" wheels with 225/75 R16 tyres makes it near-certain that it is on a post-2014 Ducato X290 base when that wheel/tyre combination became an option for the 'light' chassis.

From Chudders1's last posting, I'm assuming that he has been in touch with SvTech and been advised about the weight-upgrade choices - and that his wish to contact VWE is to obtain a 'second opinion'.

Unless SvTech or VWE actually involved themselves in physically modifying a motorhome, I'm not sure what liability could be laid at their door. My understanding was that these companies are just 'facilitators' between the motorhome owner and the DVLA. They advise the owner what weight-uprate options there are and it's then the owner's responsibility to choose what to do, either DIY-ing the work or contracting it out  to a 3rd party. Obviously, if SvTech or VWE were to suggest that a T720's GVW  could be uprated from 3500kg to (say) 5000kg as a simple 'paper' exercise, any owner with an ounce of sense would challenge this, but that's not the extent of weight increase that's ever advised.

[chudders1]

Morning all,

Yes my motorhome is a 2016 model. I did have a brief conversation with SV tech who gave approximate possible details of an upgrade but of ccourse would need full details for formal advice. Their advice was that the vehicle concerned could  up rate to 3700 with the same axle weights or 3850 with air ride suspension and increasing the back axle weight. But, understandably this was not  definate until I submitted a formal application From recommendations I saw regarding Van Weight I thought I would contact them as they were cheaper, not because I thought they would come up with different figures.

Not being technically minded I have no idea what chassis this is or what model eg X250 or X290 as mentioned above means nothing to me.

Hence starting this thread. In my mind this was supposed to be a straight forward process and just wanted to know if anyone had contact details for van weight. Wish I had not bothered now and I don't think I will bother with a weight increase. getting too complicated and  I'm afraid starting the topic has  possibly upset some which was not my intention.

Grateful thanks to all however for the advice and comments.