Installing Pull Out

[Jez_1966]

Having not been able to find someone to design and install a Pull Out in our Kon-Tiki 599 we went DIY.

As a 1st go it is a little "over engineered":

1.      Hyundai P3800 generator - With limited garage access @ 58db the quietest UK sourced generator we could find and need for exhaust location. At 3.8kw the top end of power needs when using dual ring inductions hob.

Alternative: Blackline Power 5600E 4kw Inverter Petrol Generator Electric Start Quiet 53db – H530mm too large for Kon-Tiki 599 garage access

2.      VADANIA 1500mm Ultra heavy-duty drawer runners with Lock #VD2576 1-Pair, max load 130-220kg. A longer and with greater max than potentially needed but we wanted to be sure generator clear door for refuelling, which is on the top.

Alternative: 900 or 1000mm & lower max load runners would have worked but just wanted to be sure.

Using 1500 we still have space for a further 500mm of drawer to be fitted otherwise it is space that can be filled from the other side.

3.      Heavy Duty Metal Drip Tray 3ft x 2ft - Larger than needed but given the generators weight and runners suitable for 1500mm draw this was the best option we could find.

4.      25mm Marine ply for base boards and upstands

5.      Fixed in through chassis by replacing original 4 anchor points with longer bolts.

6.      A selection of bolt/nyloc and screw.

7.      I added isolated switch (Red) outward facing for easy of use.

Learnings: I cut both the floor plates the same width, while both are fixed securely, optimal would have been left floor plate narrower and right wider. Overall, this would mean less “wood” and weight.

Runners clear door seal 3mm but tray lightly rubs of top of door seal, when generator installed, but with only 4mm clearance at the top not a lot can be done about that.

 

[Jez_1966]

Yes we need to "upgrade" strapping.

Plan is for 4 x 1”nylon straps round top carry handles, trapped between 2 x 1” penny washers to tray fixing bolts left and right.

 

[ColinM50]

I'd feel happier with a support leg for when it's pulled out. Weighing 58Kg, will vibration be an issue? And will you run it inside the garage?

[mtravel]

Excuse my frankness but it's ridiculous. In almost all European countries, the use of certain things constitutes a situation of camping and not rest. Punishable.

I understand the increasingly frequent bans that are seen almost everywhere.

Please stay away from me. Certain things make me want to call the police.

[Jez_1966]

39 minutes ago, mtravel said:

Excuse my frankness but it's ridiculous. In almost all European countries, the use of certain things constitutes a situation of camping and not rest. Punishable.

I understand the increasingly frequent bans that are seen almost everywhere.

Please stay away from me. Certain things make me want to call the police.

 

• “In almost all European countries, the use of certain things constitutes a situation of camping and not rest. Punishable.”

Running a generator is not a “restriction” of Aire usage, as running the motorhome engine for power/heating is not. Naturally restrictions could change in the future and I would abide by them if they did.

 

•  “I understand the increasingly frequent bans that are seen almost everywhere.”

I don’t understand this statement, please be more specific.

 

• “Please stay away from me. Certain things make me want to call the police.”

Naturally should our paths cross, provided I’m not in breach of restrictions I’m permitted to stay where I wish. Your choice of action is up to you but be aware enforcement of Aire regulations is down to the civic council NOT a Police matter.

The Police enforce laws use the service correctly both home and abroad.

[mtravel]

20 minutes ago, Jez_1966 said:

 

• “In almost all European countries, the use of certain things constitutes a situation of camping and not rest. Punishable.”

   

Running a generator is not a “restriction” of Aire usage, as running the motorhome engine for power/heating is not. Naturally restrictions could change in the future and I would abide by them if they did.

 

 

 

•  “I understand the increasingly frequent bans that are seen almost everywhere.”

   

I don’t understand this statement, please be more specific.

 

 

 

• “Please stay away from me. Certain things make me want to call the police.”

   

Naturally should our paths cross, provided I’m not in breach of restrictions I’m permitted to stay where I wish. Your choice of action is up to you but be aware enforcement of Aire regulations is down to the civic council NOT a Police matter.

The Police enforce laws use the service correctly both home and abroad.

I don't know if you've ever been abroad. Plenty of areas prohibit camping behavior. Which is different from stopping and spending the night. E.g. No open awnings, no tables, no chairs. And of course no fuel generators.

What you say you don't understand is that bans on recreational vehicles are increasing everywhere. This is due to the behaviors of some. And there really are the councils to decide and the police to ensure that the rules are respected.

Max

p.s. Of course in the UK you can do as you please. Areas are as rare as white flies.

[Jez_1966]

16 minutes ago, mtravel said:

I don't know if you've ever been abroad. Plenty of areas prohibit camping behavior. Which is different from stopping and spending the night. E.g. No open awnings, no tables, no chairs. And of course no fuel generators.

What you say you don't understand is that bans on recreational vehicles are increasing everywhere. This is due to the behaviors of some. And there really are the councils to decide and the police to ensure that the rules are respected.

Max

p.s. Of course in the UK you can do as you please. Areas are as rare as white flies.

I've been abroad many times and the Aire signage, in France, Spain and Portugal clearly describes "camping behaviour". It does not however mention the use of generators. Could you please provide link to support your statement "And of course no fuel generators.".

I have contacted mutliple civic authorities and Aire managment companies across all three countries and all have advised that at the present time there regulation regarding "fuel generators", other than observing "Quiet times". This is in large part due to the fact that owners run the motorhome engine, while stationary, for various reasons and given the very limited generators use it is not a topic they have discussed.

[mtravel]

14 minutes ago, Jez_1966 said:

I've been abroad many times and the Aire signage, in France, Spain and Portugal clearly describes "camping behaviour". It does not however mention the use of generators. Could you please provide link to support your statement "And of course no fuel generators.".

I have contacted mutliple civic authorities and Aire managment companies across all three countries and all have advised that at the present time there regulation regarding "fuel generators", other than observing "Quiet times". This is in large part due to the fact that owners run the motorhome engine, while stationary, for various reasons and given the very limited generators use it is not a topic they have discussed.

Did you specifically ask for the possibility of using the fuel generator ?

If you did, please post replies.

I don't pretend to know the laws of all countries but certainly the Italian one. In an place where it is permitted to stop and stay overnight (with its appropriate sign) a campsite is not configured only if:

- The vehicle rests only on the tyres. So no lifter feet.

- Occupies only its silhouette. So no external objects and no open windows either.

- It does not emit exhaust other than that of its engine. So theoretically you couldn't light the fridge on gas or even cook.

Any other behavior constitutes camping behavior and is punishable.

The case of a fenced and perhaps private area with its own regulation is different. I guarantee that in 99% of cases the use of a generator is not allowed.

For the rest, do as you deem polite towards others. But don't come to Italy, generator users are decidedly unpopular.

[Jez_1966]

3 hours ago, mtravel said:

Did you specifically ask for the possibility of using the fuel generator ?

If you did, please post replies.

I don't pretend to know the laws of all countries but certainly the Italian one. In an place where it is permitted to stop and stay overnight (with its appropriate sign) a campsite is not configured only if:

- The vehicle rests only on the tyres. So no lifter feet.

- Occupies only its silhouette. So no external objects and no open windows either.

- It does not emit exhaust other than that of its engine. So theoretically you couldn't light the fridge on gas or even cook.

Any other behavior constitutes camping behavior and is punishable.

The case of a fenced and perhaps private area with its own regulation is different. I guarantee that in 99% of cases the use of a generator is not allowed.

For the rest, do as you deem polite towards others. But don't come to Italy, generator users are decidedly unpopular.

From experience in France, Spain and Portugal the few times we've used the generator we've either been sole vehicle or after speaking with any other van nearby it's not been an issue to use for an hour ro charge batteries or cook as gas low and needed for heating.

As for Italian Sostas, recommendation is using Industrial Estate locations as there are generally lorries running generators on freezer trailers. Also as wild camping is permitted in Italy I'm sure, when we get around to visiting we'll find locations.

Good news you'll not bump into us for a year or so as van booked on RoRo to Halifax Nova Scotia for a year touring Canada & USA.

[Keithl]

1 hour ago, Jez_1966 said:

Good news you'll not bump into us for a year or so as van booked on RoRo to Halifax Nova Scotia for a year touring Canada & USA.

I was wondering why you were going to all this trouble but all is now explained!

Hope you have a safe journey but just remember if your MH is out of the country over a year it must remain UK road legal to use in any other country unless you can get a temporary registration wherever you are.

Keith.

[Jez_1966]

2 hours ago, Keithl said:

I was wondering why you were going to all this trouble but all is now explained!

Hope you have a safe journey but just remember if your MH is out of the country over a year it must remain UK road legal to use in any other country unless you can get a temporary registration wherever you are.

Keith.

It will also be useful when back, the main point of post was the Pull Out rather than what is sat on it really.

Aim is to be away 366 days, (2024 is a Leap Year) this is the max period permitted for a vehicle to be outside the UK set by DVLA. If more vehicle has to be exported.

Not that we planned to, but a non-US manufactured vehicle has to be more than 25 years old to import into the USA, van 2021. So even if we wanted to stay longer (we have 10yr visa) we could not keep the van there.

[Keithl]

4 minutes ago, Jez_1966 said:

Not that we planned to, but a non-US manufactured vehicle has to be more than 25 years old to import into the USA, van 2021.

Sorry to go off topic, if your MH was registered in 2021 then surely your first MOT will be due during 2024?

[Jez_1966]

3 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Sorry to go off topic, if your MH was registered in 2021 then surely your first MOT will be due during 2024?

Correct 2024 but irrespective of vehicle age/MOT requirement any UK registered vehicle can only be outside UK for max of 1 year. After that it either needs to return to UK or be exported, them's the DVLA rules.

[Keithl]

Totally agree with max one year before mandatory export, but to be legal abroad it has to have a current MOT so will you get it tested before it leaves the UK?

[Jez_1966]

17 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Totally agree with max one year before mandatory export, but to be legal abroad it has to have a current MOT so will you get it tested before it leaves the UK?

Advise from DVLA and Freight Forward is that the MOT exemption, being less than 3 years old, is "the same as an MOT" and we can naturally take out UK Tax and Insure based on that. Then also buy US motorhome living policy as well.

[Keithl]

Sorry to labour the point Jez but on the third anniversary of registration the 'MOT exemption' expires and to remain road legal the vehicle has to pass an MOT. Being out of the country is no excuse for allowing the MOT to lapse. And generally UK insurance policies have a stipulation that the vehicle must be legal for the policy to be effective.

So in other words if the MH is out of the UK on or after its third birthday it is no longer legal to drive on the road in any country.

The only way I know of to get around this is to get it MOT tested just before leaving the UK and ensure it is back in the UK before that MOT then expires.

[Jez_1966]

10 hours ago, Keithl said:

Sorry to labour the point Jez but on the third anniversary of registration the 'MOT exemption' expires and to remain road legal the vehicle has to pass an MOT. Being out of the country is no excuse for allowing the MOT to lapse. And generally UK insurance policies have a stipulation that the vehicle must be legal for the policy to be effective.

So in other words if the MH is out of the UK on or after its third birthday it is no longer legal to drive on the road in any country.

The only way I know of to get around this is to get it MOT tested just before leaving the UK and ensure it is back in the UK before that MOT then expires.

Not an issue always best to double check. Van registered June 21, we'll be back May 24 so 1 month to spare befor vans June 24 3 "Birthday".

[Nick the wanderer]

Looking at the pull out it looks flimsy to me, in the pic it looks like it is bending with the weight. If it was mine I'd be looking at some legs to support it, like a saw horse or something similar. That would also help stop some of the vibration you will experience.

[Jez_1966]

2 hours ago, Nick the wanderer said:

Looking at the pull out it looks flimsy to me, in the pic it looks like it is bending with the weight. If it was mine I'd be looking at some legs to support it, like a saw horse or something similar. That would also help stop some of the vibration you will experience.

Trust me the rails are not flimsy, as per the written description, they are good for 220kg.

With me sat in the tray, 105kg, it slides in and out to full extension and runners still clear door seal by same 3mm, no flex/bend in runner. As stated the tray itself bows a little but not as to be an issue.

Done some simple test and there is no significant vibration transmitted through the van. If after further usage there is some vibration we have an screw adjustable table leg that can take some of the load down to the ground. As it will only be used when we're up and about so I think we'll be causing more vibration that the generator.

That said most will probably not put a generator on it, so ignore the generator and just take the pull out as an idea to simplify access to garage.

[mtravel]

On such a long journey, one thing to bear in mind is that European vehicles are practically unknown oversea.

The RAMs that look like the Ducato/Boxer/Jumper share only the cosmetics with them.

Better to start with everything perfectly overhauled and, considering that more than 50,000 kilometers will easily be covered, a new timing belt.

As for Italian Industrial Estates, you can sleep there.

In the midst of trucks that in the best of cases are Bulgarian or Romanian, Turks not excluded.

We tend not to.

[Jez_1966]

7 hours ago, mtravel said:

On such a long journey, one thing to bear in mind is that European vehicles are practically unknown oversea.

The RAMs that look like the Ducato/Boxer/Jumper share only the cosmetics with them.

Better to start with everything perfectly overhauled and, considering that more than 50,000 kilometers will easily be covered, a new timing belt.

As for Italian Industrial Estates, you can sleep there.

In the midst of trucks that in the best of cases are Bulgarian or Romanian, Turks not excluded.

We tend not to.

Agree, RAM versions all petrol and design not update since 2017 or so.

Van 2 years old and 7k covered so far, it will get full service van mechanics and habitation serviced a few weeks before departure. Timing belt, service manual is 50k or 5 years so have to presume it will be ok. We do have arrangements if needed for parts to be shipped over by friends but hoping at 2 years old the van will be ok.

[mtravel]

13 hours ago, Jez_1966 said:

Agree, RAM versions all petrol and design not update since 2017 or so.

Van 2 years old and 7k covered so far, it will get full service van mechanics and habitation serviced a few weeks before departure. Timing belt, service manual is 50k or 5 years so have to presume it will be ok. We do have arrangements if needed for parts to be shipped over by friends but hoping at 2 years old the van will be ok.

From what I've read, perhaps due to their insurance coverage, the problem is that US mechanics and maybe even Canadians refuse to get their hands on vehicles they don't know.

And in any case they do not have the necessary diagnostic tools available.

Non-existent problem for Mercedes whose vehicles are identical to the European ones.

[Jez_1966]

On 2/17/2023 at 12:04 PM, mtravel said:

From what I've read, perhaps due to their insurance coverage, the problem is that US mechanics and maybe even Canadians refuse to get their hands on vehicles they don't know.

And in any case they do not have the necessary diagnostic tools available.

Non-existent problem for Mercedes whose vehicles are identical to the European ones.

No, already confirmed with Progressive their network will repair "any vehicle" and RAM agents have "White" Fiat diagnostic system.

Merc based! No European Merc based van as we wanted. We did visit US 4 times last year and looked at buying a US Merc based van (Thor) but doing the math buy, kit out & resell or buy bring back to UK does not add up. Basic internals could easily be converted to UK but US vans have black waste tanks instead of cassettes and changing was very costly, £4k for Cinderella. We have looked extensively at options. Bottom line, plan as best you can and have an adventure or stay home.. USA here we come.

[Adiebt]

Looking forward to hearing all about your US adventure  , are you going to publish  a vlog / blog ? Cheers . 

[Jez_1966]

On 2/20/2023 at 5:20 PM, Adiebt said:

Looking forward to hearing all about your US adventure  , are you going to publish  a vlog / blog ? Cheers . 

Having spent over a year investigating this US roadtrip, personally the interest is in getting the van there and being able to travel for a year, not the sights once there. mtravel raises the potential issue of "timing belt". While planning the trip we have identified many more "smaller parts" that could ground the trip before it starts or very shortly after arrival.

Getting the van to US/Canada, US/Canada Motor Insurance, AD-Blue, Tyres, Brake pads, LPG/Propane refill, Visa, EPA Letter, 110v - 240v, UK Tax, Insurance, MOT requirements and many other things that will imped/stop you before the timing belt needs replacing.

10 years ago Diesel was uncommon in US other than at truck stops, now common but not all fuel stations.

We'd be happy to share planning experience as that is 90% of trip in our mind. We don't want a voyeuristic blog/vlog, we'd much rather assist others in having their own adventure.

We may set-up blog/vlog but it will be very much an after thought than priority if we thought it assited other to join the adventure.