Valuing motorhome.

[Brian Kirby]

We've more or less decided to sell our van and "retire", but I'm having a real problem trying to get to a realistic valuation.

The problems I'm running into are that the brand is not that widely represented in UK, and the model even less so.  This is compounded by none of the Knaus UK dealers having current equivalent stock (used or new) and, seemingly, by all other dealers being in the same position.  Both motorhomes generally, and campers more specifically, seem to be in very short supply.

All I have been able to do is fiddle with the Knaus configurator to get a reasonably close OTR price for a van to the same spec at today's prices.  This indicates that the price has risen by 46% since November 2017!  Really?

Does anyone know of a reasonably reliable source for current used motorhome prices?

Does anyone know if this apparent famine of vans is real (because if the dealers don't have stock they can't sell, and what then - no dealers??).

I'm uneasy about private sales in view of the value involved.  I'm also a bit reluctant to sell to a dealer as I'd like to retain as much of its present value as possible, so that seems to leave me with selling via a dealer on commission (i.e. I put it on his forecourt, but retain ownership, he sells it, at which point I hand over the V1C and formally confirm transfer ownership in exchange for the sale price less the agreed commission.)  So, he takes less risk and I save some money!  🙂  I did similar with our first van in 2007 and it worked out well.  Has anyone had more recent experience of doing this, and if so, how did it go?

[peterjl]

Hi.

I have no direct experience that may help. However I am in process of renewing my insurance and trying to establish the value of my van and, being a Possl, they are not thick on the ground.

I cannot find a direct comparitor,  but, I do reckon that to replace my van, new 18 months ago, I would have to pay another £15k, some 20% more. So don’t underestimate your vans value. Moho’s seem to be in short supply and are demanding a premium.

Peter 

[Robinhood]

Sorry to hear it might be the end of the road, Brian. I'll drop you a line when I have a bit of spare time.

I'm not sure that your 'van will be easy to accurately value, but you are correct in your assessment of the market (though the onset of the coming summer with the increased viability of package holidays might begin to play against that). Accordingly, it doesn't pay to under-value. My assessment using similar and broadly similar models is that I could realise for my 4.5 year old 'van roughly what I paid for it!

Whilst I get the reluctance to involve dealers, maybe you could (virtually) tout it round a few (that you might not be considering using) to get a purchase price - at least then you might have a base to work from. They will certainly have better sources from which to determine a price.

[Jez_1966]

Bottonline it's whatever you can "persuade" someone to pay for it.

Not a motorhome but I sold my 2010 Volvo S40 with only 13k miles for 3.6k, 1.7k over parkers or other listed. It was then sold on for 6k. Aim high, you can always come down.

[Geeco]

Brian one way of establishing a value would be to go back to the time you purchased your Knaus campervan. Look at the price difference at that time to the alternative vehicles you no doubt researched. Apply the percentage increase of the current price of those vehicles today to old price of yours to establish the current price of your vehicle.

As a matter of interest my just over 2 year old Adria based on used vehicles currently for sale is worth around 20 to 25% more than I paid. Here caravans stocks are now back in dealers however motorhomes/campervans are in very short supply. If you must sell then now is the ideal time IMHO.

I hope you will not stop contributing on your retirement from the road warrior scene. Your contribution to this forum has been a very positive one  & hopefully will continue. You will join guys  like Tracker Rich & Derek though "vanless" still have much to offer. Cheers,

[Derek Uzzell]

I think Brian's Knaus motorhome may be left-hand drive with a non-UK specification.

If that's the case, there will be less interest in the UK secondhand market, either from motorhome dealerships or private buyers (unless the latter wish to use the vehicle primarily in Continental Europe.)

In late-2021 I sold my 2015 LHD Rapido motorhome via an AutoTrader advert. I got several 'commercial' responses (eg. from Motorhome Depot) all of which offered a similar price, but the vehicle was eventually sold to a private buyer for slightly more.

A casual GOOGLE-search identifies several Knaus  'vans' currently  for sale and the adverts might help to decide what a realistic asking-price would be.

[colin]

18 hours ago, peterjl said:

Hi.

I have no direct experience that may help. However I am in process of renewing my insurance and trying to establish the value of my van and, being a Possl, they are not thick on the ground.

I cannot find a direct comparitor,  but, I do reckon that to replace my van, new 18 months ago, I would have to pay another £15k, some 20% more. So don’t underestimate your vans value. Moho’s seem to be in short supply and are demanding a premium.

Peter 

Isn't there a Globecar you can use for comparison?

[peterjl]

Unfortunately not at present. I have looked

 

peter

[onecal]

22 hours ago, Geeco said:

I hope you will not stop contributing on your retirement from the road warrior scene. Your contribution to this forum has been a very positive one  & hopefully will continue. You will join guys  like Tracker Rich & Derek though "vanless" still have much to offer. Cheers,

I have to agree with Gary 100% 

Regards

[Hans]

What would your insurance pay at complete loss?

[Hans]

nd than quite stable.

[Barry Lineker]

On 3/5/2023 at 6:21 PM, Hans said:

What would your insurance pay at complete loss?

Surely you're not suggesting Brian torches it?🤔

[Barry Lineker]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:27 PM, Jez_1966 said:

Bottonline it's whatever you can "persuade" someone to pay for it.

Not a motorhome but I sold my 2010 Volvo S40 with only 13k miles for 3.6k, 1.7k over parkers or other listed. It was then sold on for 6k. Aim high, you can always come down.

I paid 4k for a immaculate one owner 1983 Honda Accord with 44k on the clock from a bloke who transported vehicles for a living, he bought it from the family of the deceased.

I often wonder how much he paid for it?

[slowdriver]

One option might be to check on https://www.mobile.de/?lang=en for your van. I do not know what it is. It will give you a view of continental valuations for your van. Browsing more generally on mobile.de will provide you with a sense of relative valuations between the UK and Germany and then you can convert accordingly for a UK valuation. 

[Brian Kirby]

On 3/4/2023 at 8:10 AM, Derek Uzzell said:

I think Brian's Knaus motorhome may be left-hand drive with a non-UK specification.

If that's the case, there will be less interest in the UK secondhand market, either from motorhome dealerships or private buyers (unless the latter wish to use the vehicle primarily in Continental Europe.)

In late-2021 I sold my 2015 LHD Rapido motorhome via an AutoTrader advert. I got several 'commercial' responses (eg. from Motorhome Depot) all of which offered a similar price, but the vehicle was eventually sold to a private buyer for slightly more.

A casual GOOGLE-search identifies several Knaus  'vans' currently  for sale and the adverts might help to decide what a realistic asking-price would be.

Thanks Derek, and you are right, it is LHD, so the internal electrical sockets are "Schuko" type.  This will reduce its appeal for UK buyers unless, as you say, they want the van for Continental use.  We shall see!  🤥

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you to all who replied, and apologies for the delayed acknowledgement of your posts.  I'll reply one by one over the next few days where I can update on progress.

[Robinhood]

2 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

.......so the internal electrical sockets are "Schuko" type.  This will reduce its appeal for UK buyers .....

Shouldn't be a show-stopper!

I would expect those sockets to be either CBE or (more likely) the similar Berker, and they will thus be modular.

Substituting a UK 13amp socket for a Schuko (it is only an intermediate part of the socket module set) shouldn't be beyond the wit of man. the requisite CBE bits aren't much over a fiver each, Berker ones tend to be a bit more. (the only potential issue is if there is enough slack in the wiring to do the swap-out - I'd say the probability of it being OK is high).

There can't be an over-abundance of sockets in a PVC, surely  😉

[silverback]

it's worth what ever someone will pay surely? get a quote from a dealer stick 3K on it and sorted sell private no come back, if your giving up it doesn't really matter does it? no pockets in shrouds....in this day and age a grand doesn't go too far...just saying

 

[Thai Bry]

12 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

Thank you to all who replied, and apologies for the delayed acknowledgement of your posts.  I'll reply one by one over the next few days where I can update on progress.

Brian

Like others have stated, I hope the retirement wont stop you posting with your usual good advice.

On the basis that you're thinking of selling, would it be easier if you used a European based dealer. Or i presume the work required to have it changed back to "European" standards regarding speedo and other items negate the price obtainable.

Good luck with your endeavours.

[Brian Kirby]

On 3/4/2023 at 1:48 PM, colin said:

Isn't there a Globecar you can use for comparison?

Thanks Colin.  There are several vans that are very similar in specification and layout.  But, despite spending hours in web research, examples for sale in the UK are very few and far between, and, so far as I could see, there is not one that is truly comparable.  I've found a few that have at least one common characteristic, such as date of first registration and/or mileage, and or engine and transmission, but none that were also LHD.  I could find over 20 for sale in Germany with broadly similar age, layout, mileages, engines, equipment etc. such that the average asking price is €53,719!  And, of course, they were all LHD!!  🙂 

I found a couple of Adria Twin 600 SPs in UK, plus one Autotrail V-Line, that gave me a reasonable idea of what a dealer might stick in the windscreen on his forecourt (about £50,000), but nothing to indicate what that might be for a LHD.

There main thing I really discovered was that there is a huge shortage of vans of all kinds for sale in UK, with almost all dealers stating they had very extended delivery times on new vans, no stock of used vans, and charging pretty wild prices for any they did have.

The far less useful thing I discovered was that used vans are still cheaper in Germany, and in greater supply used.

I've now had 'phone chats to a couple of reasonably nearby dealers, neither of whom thought they wanted a LHD van in the present market climate, and a couple to two more distant dealers (one a Knaus dealer) who offered "brokerage" deals, advising (quite reasonably, I thought) that this offered the best price to me compared to a simple cash deal, but who would consider a direct purchase for a lower price if I preferred.  Neither was put off by LHD, both saying there was adequate demand in their experience.  All, of course, subject to sight of the van. 

So' I'll follow up on those with details and pictures of the van to see if they're still interested, have a look at their brokerage offers and, if we're both still interested, take the van for them to view at first hand.  At least - at the moment - I seem to have more than one iron in the fire.  We shall see!

[Brian Kirby]

On 3/7/2023 at 6:37 AM, slowdriver said:

One option might be to check on https://www.mobile.de/?lang=en for your van. I do not know what it is. It will give you a view of continental valuations for your van. Browsing more generally on mobile.de will provide you with a sense of relative valuations between the UK and Germany and then you can convert accordingly for a UK valuation. 

Thank you so much for that reminder, I'd completely forgotten mobile.de!  Durrr!

Yes, how I wished I lived in Germany - see my above reply to Colin.

It really is a fantastic site that provides all the basic, critical, information for pretty well every van listed, with first registration dates by the month, chassis and engine details, mileages (in km, naturally 🙂) and the asking price, and with the sold vans removed as they go.  By comparison, Autotrader and Gumtree are far less helpfully specific, and simply haven't recognised the differences between motorhomes and cars.  The UK dealers aren't generally much better either!  😞 

[Brian Kirby]

On 3/13/2023 at 8:40 PM, Robinhood said:

Shouldn't be a show-stopper!

I would expect those sockets to be either CBE or (more likely) the similar Berker, and they will thus be modular.

Substituting a UK 13amp socket for a Schuko (it is only an intermediate part of the socket module set) shouldn't be beyond the wit of man. the requisite CBE bits aren't much over a fiver each, Berker ones tend to be a bit more. (the only potential issue is if there is enough slack in the wiring to do the swap-out - I'd say the probability of it being OK is high).

There can't be an over-abundance of sockets in a PVC, surely  😉

All agreed Bob.  We solved the socket problem the other way, which is to say we already had some electricals (e.g  filter coffee maker) we'd bought while away, so already had the correct plugs, but also bought a few loose plugs in French supermarkets and simply fitted them in lieu of BS plugs for those items (e.g. low wattage kettle) we take with us.  The rest is mainly stuff like phone, camera, and toothbrush battery chargers, and laptop power supplies, which all have two pin plugs and can either be plugged directly into the van sockets, or are plugged into two pin adaptors plugged into a multi socket BS extension lead to which I fitted a Schuko type plug.  If the dealers gripe about the sockets I'll explore switching them for BS three pin type.  The only problem I can see is that ours are almost invariably switched (though I note that not all the CBE and Berker ones are, so thanks for that tip) - which would probably make the face plates too big for in-situ swapping.  To be investigated - if necessary.

[Robinhood]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

If the dealers gripe about the sockets I'll explore switching them for BS three pin type.  The only problem I can see is that ours are almost invariably switched (though I note that not all the CBE and Berker ones are, so thanks for that tip) - which would probably make the face plates too big for in-situ swapping.  To be investigated - if necessary.

...all the pictures I can find of Knaus vans patently have either CBE or Berker electrical switches/sockets.

These are entirely modular. The faceplate/escutcheon simply clicks off, remove a support frame and the core socket type can simply be unscrewed and exchanged for a different one. The schuko and 13A sockets are entirely the same footprint, and take the same support frame and escutcheon.

The 13A sockets are unswitched. The only potential problem I can see is that the most common colour for the units in the UK is grey. The pictures of Knaus units show silver escutcheons with covers - I wonder if the inner socket is grey/anthracite.

I doubt it's a big deal anyway, (as you highlight, plug-in socket converters are readily available) but if it were it should be easy to fix.   

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/cbe-modular-switch-socket-system.html      (Berker are similar but different shape).

[Derek Uzzell]

The LHD Hobby motorhome I imported from Germany in 2005 was very well endowed with 230V socket-outlets everywhere and these were all Schuko type. This did not concern me in the least (I just used Schuko-to-3-pin adapters) and, when I sold the Hobby to a UK trader in 2014, no mention was made of the outlets not being UK 3-pin type. What was a significant factor in the negotiation about value was that the vehicle was LHD and did not have the (pathetic and ugly) small gas oven that was part of the UK standard specification.

The LHD Rapido I bought in 2015 had a France/UK hybrid specification. There was just a single 230V socket-outlet and this was an unswitched UK 3-pin type.  I added a couple more 3-pin outlets and these were also unswitched.

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you Bob and Derek.  I'll see if the issue arises, and then decide accordingly if it does.  As I said, it's never troubled us!