David Force Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 (edited) Hi there, re Elddis Autoquest 115 I’m having trouble removing the gas canisters from their cupboard. Is there a knack to this as I’m getting low on gas? Hope you can help. Thank you. David Edited March 7, 2023 by David Force Shortage of info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 If you don't describe the problem you are encountering, I think it will be difficult to help you. In most motorhomes the bottles are just held by straps with a motorcycle helmet type buckle. A picture would help us to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Not sure what the locker looks like on an Autoquest but you may have to lift the bottle and remove it bottom first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On our Campscout as well as straps the cylinder base drops into a hole, this was very tight when new, it was a case of rocking the cylinder and wedging one side and rocking against that until it came out. After a couple of cylinder changes I got a drum sander out to the hole to enlarge it a couple of millimetres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 On our Eldiss 196, to get the gas bottle in or out you have to first remove the regulator that's screwed to the rear wall and to do that need to undo the gas pipe that leads into the van so there's enough room to manhandle the bottle. The locker is a such a tight fit. I soon got fed up with the faff so bought a refillable bottle that never needs to come out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Elddis has marketed the Autoquest 115 model for a number of years and - as the next two images will show - although the position of the gas-locker has remained roughly the same, the shape and size of the locker door has altered. This is an example of the 'old' version and this is the new/current version I'm guessing that David's motorhome is the later version and there are on-line comments about the limited space inside the locker when two gas-bottles are carried. The 115's locker is designed to accept nothing larger than a pair of Calor 7kg/6kg canisters and (from the lower photo) it looks like the bottles will probably need to be installed and removed in a particular order and with bottles at a particular angle. As David has suggested, there will be knack to doing this. (It may be a b****r to get the bottles in and out, but it should not be necessary to remove the regulator to do this. Even Elddis would not be that bloody-minded!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albertslad Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 I assume you’ve turned the gas off and removed the regulator before trying to get cylinder out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/9/2023 at 8:02 PM, Albertslad said: I assume you’ve turned the gas off and removed the regulator before trying to get cylinder out? Do you own an Elddis Autoquest 115, please? I appreciate that ColinM50, in his posting above, mentioned that he had needed to remove his motorhome's bulkhead-mounted gas regulator before gas bottles could be installed. (I find that requirement startling to say the least, but I can't argue with it.) However, Colin's motorhome is an Elddis 196 model and (as shown by the image below) its gas-locker is close to the vehicle's rear, whereas an Autoquest 115's locker is not far from the cab passenger door as indicated in my previous posting. This YouTube video advises on changing an Elddis 196's gas bottle Crucially, it does not show how to get the bottles in or out of the gas-locker, but it does show the regulator's position and I can easily believe installing/removing the bottles might be challenging. (If I owned a 196 and had trouble getting the gas bottles in/out, I'd get rid of the white curved plastic 'spacers' through which the securing straps run and fit something less rigid and less bulky - but a buyer of a new 196 really should not have to make that sort of modification.) This 2017 O&AL forum thread discussed a 2013 Autoquest 115 and the size of gas bottle that would fit in its locker (a maximum of 2 x 6kg/7kg Calor size). https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/42372-gas-bottles-for-2013-elddis-autoquest-115/ When the question "How much space do you have around your cylinders when fitting them?" was asked, the following advice was given "Not a lot! Its very tight indeed - at best, when both bottles are in, there is probably only a couple of inches (if that) between each one and they are right up against the sides of the locker." I've not read anything saying that 2 x 6kg/7kg gas bottles cannot be inserted or removed from an Autoquest 115's gas-locker without first removing 'fixed' equipment, but there are on-line comments about the exercise not being straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 I think the Eldiss 'design team' probably field tested this motorcaravan (if they tested it at all) for a weekend and took 2 x camping gaz bottles.....that'll do, must have been the conclusion. Do they state in the sales bumf the maximum capacity and type of a commonly available gas bottle? After all if it takes this much ingenuity and trouble to remove the gas bottles they would surely have gone back to the drawing board. Be interesting to call in to their works/dealership and offer them the challenge, if they fail get them to make necessary hole trimming adaptions etc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 It would help to know the year of @David Force 115 to confirm but as an example the 2019 Elddis Owners Handbook clearly says the gas locker will hold two 6 kg gas cylinders so it must be possible to fit and remove them through the locker door... https://elddis.co.uk/uploads/Handbooks/2019/2019-Autoquest-Handbook.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 25 minutes ago, Keithl said: ... the gas locker will hold two 6 kg gas cylinders ... Which means three or at most four days in winter on the Alps and twenty (only cooker and fridge, no hot water) in Andalusia in summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) "Accept a Maximum of 2 x 6kg gas bottles". They just failed to include in the handbook the all important necessary? requirement to remove the regulator first! Best bottle for Spain is a Repsol 13kg., Propane 15.54€ and Butane 18.58€ early this year. If you're a campsite frequenter then it's possibly worthwhile fitting an external gas connector if not able to fit a 13kg in the van locker. Bottles can often be obtained in Saturday flea markets and sometimes on campsites 10€ is the usual going rate. Edited March 10, 2023 by simians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, simians said: "Accept a Maximum of 2 x 6kg gas bottles". They just failed to include in the handbook the all important necessary? requirement to remove the regulator first! And as Elddis state that only Gas Safe Engineers can work on the gas system that will prevent an owner from changing their own gas cylinder! Extract from the same Owners Handbook... It might need a contortionist but there must be a way to swap the cylinders without dismantling the gas system or how can Elddis expect an owner to swap their own gas cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simians Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 The removal and replacement of a regulator and probably any flexible rubber connector possibly doesn't come within the meaning of "working on the gas system" anything beyond that point possibly does. Otherwise we might well be in contravention of the Gas Safety Regs. just replacing a screw-on Camping Gaz cylinder regulator and hose.🤨 Life's a gas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Elddis first marketed the Autoquest 115 model in 2007 and in the Specifications section of this 2007 review the Gas Locker (kg) datum states 2x7 https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/buyers-guide/motorhomes/elddis-115-2007 It would be very unusual for a UK 'coachbuilt' motorhome constructed since (say) Year 2000 to be marketed with a specification indicating that the gas-locker could not cope with at least a pair of Calor 7kg/6kg gas bottles. HOWEVER, although a brochure or handbook may state that a motorhome's gas-locker can accommodate 2 x Calor 7kg/6kg bottles, this may not be true in practice. This 2018 Caravan & Motorhome Club discussion related to a recently-purchased Elddis Accordo 120. https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/club-together/discussions/welcome-hobby-talk/introductions/elddis-accordo-120/ The owner's handbook for 2018 Accordo models includes the "GAS SUPPLY" text Keith has quoted above, but - when two 6kg bottles could not be installed - Elddis confirmed that 2 x 3.9 kg bottles would fit and that the 'handbook was subject to change'. Interestingly, the final posting on Page 2 of the C&MC thread says Hi we had the same problem when we went to collect our motorhome from the dealer. We had taken the two gas bottles out of the caravan that we had traded in at the same time, only one gas bottle fitted. We had the usual waffle from the service manager but refused to accept that it only held one bottle. After they rang Elddis who confirmed that it should hold two the engineer slightly adjusted the brackets and hey bingo two bottles slipped easily in place. Should be sorted out before leaving the factory. I agree with Keith's diagnosis. If an Elddis coachbuilt model's handbook states that the vehicle's gas-locker can hold two 7kg/6kg bottles, it ought to be possible for the motorhome's owner to install/remove two 7kg/6kg bottles. That doesn't mean doing this will be a piece of cake (in fact, relevant comments and complaints strongly suggest it probably won't be!) and it might be necessary for a clever procedure to be used (a 'knack'), or for the position of the bottle-holding brackets to be 'tweaked', or even for the gas-regulator to be repositioned. But Elddis's advice that smaller than 7kg/6kg bottles should be used instead is a cop-out, and Elddis owners should not believe it might be acceptable practice to remove a bulkhead-mounted gas-regulator as an essential part of the bottle-swapping process. In the Good Old Days leisure-vehicle gas systems involved 'on-bottle' gas-regulators, 'rubber' gas hoses and jubilee-clips. It was accepted back then that motorhome/caravan owners could generally be considered sufficiently competent to deal with those simple systems on a DIY basis. Nowadays, where 'modern' gas systems are concerned, although it has to be assumed that leisure-vehicle owners can be trusted to disconnect and reconnect gas-bottles themselves (and perhaps replace gas 'pigtails' too) it's quite another matter safety-wise if owners were to start regularly disconnecting/reconnecting bulkhead-mounted gas-regulators from the leisure-vehicle's 'fixed' gas system in the mistaken belief that this might be a common requirement when swapping gas bottles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Just to add, Regulation 2(5)(e) of the safety regs. expressly excludes privately owned caravans and motorhomes from the requirements to have work on the gas system carried out by a Gas Safe or qualified person though it does say competent. Therefore the owner of a privately owned caravan or motorhome is not breaking any rules if they do choose to remove and replace a gas carrying article, e.g. the fixed governor or a gas fridge say. That doesn't mean to say they should, but some of the previous comments seemed to me to be suggesting that it was not legal. Bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 It was actually the quote from the Elddis handbook that said only Gas Safe Engineers could work on the gas installation, but with no mention of legality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Elddis seem to be less didactic about caravan owners DIYing the gas system. This is copied from a 2011 Elddis caravan handbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, simians said: The removal and replacement of a regulator and probably any flexible rubber connector possibly doesn't come within the meaning of "working on the gas system" anything beyond that point possibly does. Otherwise we might well be in contravention of the Gas Safety Regs. just replacing a screw-on Camping Gaz cylinder regulator and hose.🤨 Life's a gas! In answer to Keithl Bas Edited March 10, 2023 by Basil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Sorry, I did not make the point of my post clear. On one hand Elddis are saying you should not work on the gas system of your MH, obviously with the exception of changing cylinders, and if the regulator is bulkhead mounted then my interpretation would be that removing the regulator is within this restriction. So how can Elddis expect an owner to change the cylinder if you have to remove the bulkhead mounted regulator as ColinM50 has said he had to? Hope that makes my point clear, I had not intended to start a debate on the legality of working on MH gas systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 But it also looks like the OP has not returned since Tuesday so we are all talking amongst ourselves! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 In my last posting I mentioned that, when a buyer of a new 2018 Elddis Accordo 120 motorhome realised it was not possible to fit two 6kg gas-bottles in the vehicle's gas-locker (as the handbook stated should be the case) Elddis 'explained' that the locker was designed for two 3.9kg canisters. This recent Calor announcement https://www.calor.co.uk/news-and-views/press-release-cylinder-range#:~:text=From 1st February 2023%2C the,these sizes for a refill. states From 1st February 2023, the Cube, 3.9kg Propane, 4.5kg Butane, 6Lite Propane and 12kg Butane will be discontinued. This means that customers won’t be able to buy new cylinders or exchange existing cylinders of these sizes for a refill. so - if any Elddis motorhome owners are using Calor's smallest bottle as two 6kg canisters will not fit in the gas-locker (or because they find it difficult to install/remove 6kg bottles) - there's going to be a potential problem in future. Regarding playing about with a motorhome's gas system, this YouTube video is educational. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUap1IQmfPg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 For what it's worth, it's evident that Elddis has a habit of producing motorhomes with a gas-locker that CAN accommodate two Calor 6kg bottles and where the gas-locker's door is quite wide but with a narrow height. This photo relates to an Elddis Aspire model and indicates installing one 6kg bottle should be straightforward (though one would still need to tilt the bottle and lift it over the locker's lower lip). Getting a 2nd 6kg bottle in will be the challenge and it might be necessary to have the bottle near horizontal and held high up when inserting it and then tilt the bottle's base down. A full Calor 6kg bottle weighs 15-17kg: this may not sound excessive but is definitely heavy enough to make life awkward when trying to manoeuvre the canister into a restricted space. There may a 'best order' to put two full bottles in and - when the two full bottles are in place - there may be a 'best order' to start taking gas from them. Based on the photo (and the fact that I'm heavily 'right-armed') I'd begin by putting Bottle A in the left side of the locker and then feed Bottle B into the locker's right side. I'd then connect the gas-hose to Bottle B. Removing the bottles, I'd take the rightmost bottle out first, then the left one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyS Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 (edited) On 3/9/2023 at 8:02 PM, Albertslad said: I assume you’ve turned the gas off and removed the regulator before trying to get cylinder out? I think you mean 'adapter'? Edited March 11, 2023 by DavyS clarity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 The only 'adapter' I can think of that might be relevant would be when the gas-hose ('pigtail') could not be directly connected to the gas-bottle. For example, if the gas-hose were intended for direct connection to a UK propane bottle and the motorhome owner wished to use a UK butane bottle (or a 'foreign' bottle). But even if that sort of adapter were attached to the end of the gas-hose, it should not affect gas-bottle removal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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