david lloyd Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Just left today for a trip to the coast and left a trail of blue smoke from exhaust particularly when accelerating. This only last a few minutes until the engine reached operating temp - nothing after that and no discernible effect on performance. It’s the first time I have seen this. It is a 2006 Peugeot boxer (X244) with a 2.8HDI engine. next service is due in august when I am going to have the cam belt changed as although there is a good service history I cannot see any reference to a previous cam belt change. Current mileage is 46K. Internet search throws up a variety of possible causes which only serves to confuse but if it is something that needs doing sooner rather than later I will bring forward the cam belt change and have it done altogether. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Blue exhaust smoke generally indicates oil burning. This may be for a variety of reasons, some of which are age/wear related, others indicating a problem. Apparently, your 2.8 HDI may, or may not, have a turbo at that year. If it has, I seem to remember there being problems with the oil seals in the turbo itself which allow lubricating oil to be ingested through the turbo, eventually in sufficient quantity to fuel the engine with the result that it becomes uncontrollable and unstoppable until something breaks! Whether this relates to that engine in particular, or is more general, I don't know. I expect someone else will know, but if not, it might be worth having the engine/turbo checked to be sure. Apologies if I'm talking twaddle and causing an unwarranted scare - but better safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globebuster1 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 David, When did you last use the van prior to this trip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 My 2009 X250 does that after it's been stood for a while, soon goes away after 1/4 mile or so, just burning the oil off the piston crown, been put down to a weeping valve stem oil seal, if it was a turbo seal it would likely smoke every time you accelerate. Worth having it checked tho. Running the engine to charge the batteries can also cause this issue, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Thanks Brian - that was certainly one of the issues referred to on the internet. Globebuster - we were away in it about four weeks ago but I have run it on the driveway a couple of times in the intervening period as I have been checking the alternator charging of my leisure batteries (see earlier thread). David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Gman - thanks. Out of all the various possible causes I was leaning toward this as it did stop, as you say, within less than half a mile and some of the possible causes would be constantly letting oil in to burn. If this is the cause is it something to deal with sooner rather than later - as I mentioned I can bring the cam belt change forward or leave this until August? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globebuster1 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 1 hour ago, david lloyd said: Thanks Brian - that was certainly one of the issues referred to on the internet. Globebuster - we were away in it about four weeks ago but I have run it on the driveway a couple of times in the intervening period as I have been checking the alternator charging of my leisure batteries (see earlier thread). David I would see if the problem persists, but do check the oil level - if the Turbo is slowly eating itself you'll soon know! I was once the passenger in a Renault Traffic when this happened, smoked out the A30 at Sourton Cross for a few minutes, until we managed to stall it - and it was a self-hire van! As Gman says - running at idle on the drive is best avoided - I've a feeling it may not return, after a decent run. Give it an 'Italian tune-up' on the way home for good measure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Brian Kirby said: ================================================ ================================================= Apparently, your 2.8 HDI may, or may not, have a turbo at that year. ================================================================================================== For information. To the best of my knowledge 2.8 HDi = 2.8jtd = Sofim 8140.43s, or perhaps a Sofim 8140.43n, which is a higher power version. Both versions are turbo charged. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Thanks Alan that’s useful information. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 This Wiki entry may be of interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofim_8140_engine The more powerful 8140.43N motor was usually referred to as the "Power" variant. it produced 146PS (rather than the 127PS of the 8140.43S engine) and 310Nm of torque (instead of 300Nm). The extra oomph came from the 8140.43N's variable-geometry turbocharger. (I think Brian Kirby once owned a motorhome that had the 8140.43N powerplant.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 17 hours ago, Globebuster1 said: running at idle on the drive is best avoided So how come the ice cream men do it all day and have 40 year old vans still on the original engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, Derek Uzzell said: This Wiki entry may be of interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofim_8140_engine The more powerful 8140.43N motor was usually referred to as the "Power" variant. it produced 146PS (rather than the 127PS of the 8140.43S engine) and 310Nm of torque (instead of 300Nm). The extra oomph came from the 8140.43N's variable-geometry turbocharger. (I think Brian Kirby once owned a motorhome that had the 8140.43N powerplant.) Derek, Thanks for the link, which as the owner of a 2006 2.8jtd, I found interesting. Those interested in such matters, may also wish to view the following article. https://motor-car.net/cosworth-engines/1292-iveco-engines/13709-sofim-engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 13 hours ago, Alanb said: For information. To the best of my knowledge 2.8 HDi = 2.8jtd = Sofim 8140.43s, or perhaps a Sofim 8140.43n, which is a higher power version. Both versions are turbo charged. Alan Alan, how would I distinguish which engine I have? I think it is one of the last of the X244 variants before the X250 came into being. Has a five speed gearbox but I wouldn’t say it is overly powerful - although I am a very steady driver. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 David, I think that the "power version" 8140.43N, was only fitted by Fiat to the "Maxi" version which has a GVW of 3850kg, heavier suspension, more powerfull brakes, and 16" wheels. Without getting underneath, on the 8140.43N the variable turbo vanes are controlled by vacuum via a proportional (modulating) solenoid valve. The absence of such a valve would suggest a 8140.43S, which has slightly less power than the 130 2.3 multijet fitted to many X250 models. Fiat eLearn seems to suggest that the modulating valve is mounted in a central location on the bulkhead. It could be under the plastic hood that shrouds the flame starter and aircon relays when fitted. From underneath the vehicle, the turbo on the power version will have a vacuum line connecting to the modulating valve. The vacuum cylinder will be mechanically linked to the guide vane mechanism. Whereas on the 8140.43S the turbo wastegate is controlled directly by, and to regulate the maximum boost pressure. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 Blimey - I wish I could understand all that! But thanks for the info Alan. An internet search this morning on my VIN seems to pinpoint the engine as a Sofim 127bhp version which is probably correct as far as performance goes. Checked the oil this morning and it is still just below MAX so that seems ok. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 I also recall having a PVC on the Maxi chassis which had a red POWER badge on the front wing. That was definitely a 2.8 146hp. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 6 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: ................................(I think Brian Kirby once owned a motorhome that had the 8140.43N powerplant.) Well remembered! 🙂 Indeed I did, a LHD Burstner T585 self-imported from France with the 146hp (as the French called it, TGV) engine. To be honest it underwhelmed, and seemed somewhat sluggish, the more so when compared with the 2.3L Transit Mk 7 based Hobby Van which replaced it, which was much livelier to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Hi I think the simple question has to be asked, did it do it again this morning? (if it did, for how long?) for a few minutes like on start up and clear, or not at all now. Was it just a once off because it was left standing there for some time (Oil Valve seals) Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, onecal said: Hi I think the simple question has to be asked, did it do it again this morning? (if it did, for how long?) for a few minutes like on start up and clear, or not at all now. Was it just a once off because it was left standing there for some time (Oil Valve seals) Regards Not able to answer that today as we didn’t go anywhere but have it in mind to see what happens tomorrow or the other days. Have to say, it’s not unusual for us to leave three or four weeks between trips but, as mentioned, during that period this last time I did have the van idling a few times checking my alternator charging. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Good to start up and see an odd day, just to see and burn off, Yes don't leave idling too long. In fact after regular start ups and run everyday for a week to working temperature and if no blue smoke, it may indeed maybe just the valve seals Continuous blue smoke is a different matter Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 22 hours ago, onecal said: Hi I think the simple question has to be asked, did it do it again this morning? (if it did, for how long?) for a few minutes like on start up and clear, or not at all now. Was it just a once off because it was left standing there for some time (Oil Valve seals) Regards Good news - left standing for over 40 hours but went out this morning and not a hint of smoke - blue or otherwise, guess Gman’s suggestion may well be right. My only question now is - if the valve seals do weep a bit after standing a while is it something that needs dealing with or best left alone and go out camping more? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 Hi If your happy to live with , why not Enjoy your Motorhome Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 On 4/1/2023 at 11:05 AM, Alanb said: David, I think that the "power version" 8140.43N, was only fitted by Fiat to the "Maxi" version which has a GVW of 3850kg, heavier suspension, more powerfull brakes, and 16" wheels. Without getting underneath, on the 8140.43N the variable turbo vanes are controlled by vacuum via a proportional (modulating) solenoid valve. The absence of such a valve would suggest a 8140.43S, which has slightly less power than the 130 2.3 multijet fitted to many X250 models. Fiat eLearn seems to suggest that the modulating valve is mounted in a central location on the bulkhead. It could be under the plastic hood that shrouds the flame starter and aircon relays when fitted. From underneath the vehicle, the turbo on the power version will have a vacuum line connecting to the modulating valve. The vacuum cylinder will be mechanically linked to the guide vane mechanism. Whereas on the 8140.43S the turbo wastegate is controlled directly by, and to regulate the maximum boost pressure. Alan I think if you remove the plastic cover on the ecu it's stamped on there, I found it when taking the ecu for a repair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hart Posted April 6, 2023 Share Posted April 6, 2023 I'm not technical, but make a suggestion anyway. I once tried to charge my battery (on a Bedford Midi) by idling the engine for a couple of hours. On departing, the van left a spectacular trail of black smoke for about a mile, at which point the smoke abruptly changed to blue and shortly afterwards cleared. I think that I had clogged the Catalytic Convertor with soot, which burned off when the system warmed up. The engine was fine for the whole 137,000 miles I drove the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 Yes thanks Richard. Went out in the MH each day and have since driven home without any hint of smoke - blue or otherwise - so Gman hit the nail on the head with his suggestion. The blue trail I left when it did happen was quite spectacular though! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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