Rouen

[teccer1234]

is the A 13 inside or outside the rouen LEZ?

[Robinhood]

Latest details here (I think):

https://metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/zone-faibles-emissions-mobilite

(let Google translate)

A13 is shown on the map as being outside the LEZ (which itself should still be accessible with a "3" or lower Crit' Air sticker.

(At least, that's my interpretation 😉 ) 

[laimeduck]

I think the A13 is outside, but the A28 coming down from Abbeville is not so the A13 is not accessible from the NE.

Jeremy

[teccer1234]

I'll be coming down from Yvetot so should be ok.

as for crit'air 3, the way I see it is that until 2024 campervans are still allowed through Rouen regardless of sticker No.

[davidmac]

Hi, drove from Dieppe to Le Mans and back last weekend going on the 338 to A28 through the city, late night Wednesday going, late Sunday evening return, did not see any signs indicating start /finish of any crit air zones. Didn't get pulled by the gendarmes so no problem. 

Regards David

[teccer1234]

friends of mine with a 2000 tag axel van, Crit'air5 also drove through Rouen a few weeks ago, no problem

Edited July 6, 2023 by teccer1234

[webby1]

I think we all need to remember that just because me or my mate drove through Rouen without any problems actually means nothing to future drivers. The fact you didn't get stopped doesn't mean that I won't.

But I believe as @teccer1234 quoted above from this thread,Derek Uzzell actually wrote to the authorities and got confirmation that motorhomes are exempt until 2024. Perhaps that's why you didn't get stopped 😉

 

[Derek Uzzell]

On 07/07/2023 at 09:24, webby1 said:

...But I believe as @teccer1234 quoted above from this thread,Derek Uzzell actually wrote to the authorities and got confirmation that motorhomes are exempt until 2024. Perhaps that's why you didn't get stopped 😉

Yes - in 2022 here was a long forum thread about transiting Rouen and teccer's quote comes from the 4th page

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/54054-south-through-rouen/page/4/

[webby1]

And thanks to your digging I happily travelled through Rouen with the original French version close to hand

[teccer1234]

3 hours ago, webby1 said:

And thanks to your digging I happily travelled through Rouen with the original French version close to hand

and I'll be doing the same👍

[Derek Uzzell]

Perhaps worth noting that the 'derogation' allowing all motorhomes to be driven within the Rouen low emissions zone is in force until 30 June 2024.

 

[laimeduck]

In Derek's November post he added the following (in blue) at the end of the translation:- My enquiry about 'heavy' motorhomes wasn't addressed, but the inference seems to be that all foreign-registered motorhomes (irrespective of their gross weight) are authorized to be driven within the Rouen ZFE until 2024.

So there is no guarantee that over 3500 Kg are exempt .. it was simply Derek's inference.

As we are 3850Kg  and Crit Air 4, when we went in January, we used a cross country route leaving the A28 at J12, going via Les Andelys which was perfectly good, and on our return we refined it using Pont-de-L'arche and Fleury-sur-Andelle back up to J12 A28.

I estimate it was somewhere around 15-20 mins longer.

Depends on your attitude to risk I guess?

Jeremy

[Derek Uzzell]

13 hours ago, laimeduck said:

In Derek's November post he added the following (in blue) at the end of the translation:- My enquiry about 'heavy' motorhomes wasn't addressed, but the inference seems to be that all foreign-registered motorhomes (irrespective of their gross weight) are authorized to be driven within the Rouen ZFE until 2024.

So there is no guarantee that over 3500 Kg are exempt .. it was simply Derek's inference...

Well not really...

I specifically asked the Rouen ZFE team about 'heavy' motorhomes and that question was not addressed. However, the wording of the French regulatory text that identifies the types of vehicle for which there will be a derogation until 30 June 2024 just refers to 'camping-cars'. If the derogation were intended to apply only to motorhomes with a GVW not exceeding 3500kg, it's to be expected that the regulations (and the ZFE team) would make this clear. But, as they do/did not, there is no persuasive reason to think the derogation applies only to up-to-3500kg foreign-registered motorhomes.

If you believe the derogation until June 2024 may not apply to your 3850kg GVW motorhome (and to other 'heavy' motorhomes) I suggest you contact the Rouen ZFE team for a black-or-white ruling.

[laimeduck]

Derek I agree ... that was my point  - as it is still uncertain if "Heavies" are OK, people should check.

Personally I'm not bothered as:-

a) I have my alternative route,

b) We are not going via Rouen this year and probably not in 2024.

Jeremy

[Robinhood]

Under the link I posted above, there is a reference and further link to the actual decree showing the derogations.

Patently the detail is subject to both my French translation skills, and an understanding of vehicle classification in France.

The derogation to June '24 is described as applying to "les vehicules de type autocaravane portant les mentions "VASP" et "CARAVANE" sur le certificat d'immatricualtion"

VASP is a category that covers (certified) self-converted camper vans up to 3.5 tonnes, but there is no weight limit associated with the "caravane" definition.

[Derek Uzzell]

A .pdf file relating to the Rouen ZFE derogations can be found here

https://www.metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/sites/default/files/2022-09/Les_derogations_V20220901_3.pdf

Vehicle exemptions fall into two categories - permanent or temporary.

The official French word for a motorhome is "autocaravane" and the list of permanent exemptions includes

Les véhicules automoteurs spécialisés tels que définis à l’annexe 5 de l’arrêté du 9 février 2009 relatif aux modalités d’immatriculation des véhicules, portant la mention « VASP » sur le certificat d’immatriculation ou « VTSU » sur la carte grise, à l'exception des autocaravanes ;

while the list of vehicle types temporarily exempted until 30 June 2024 includes 

Les véhicules de type autocaravane portant les mentions « VASP » et « CARAVANE » sur le certificat d’immatriculation

In 2022 French motorhome magazines discussed the Rouen ZFE derogations and (naturally enough) it would have been assumed that readers understood the French vehicle registration system (VASP, VTSU, etc.)

This website relates to motorhomes visiting the Rouen Armada 2023 event held last month

https://objectif-vie-en-van.com/armada-rouen-2023-en-camping-car/#4-ce-qu’il-faut-savoir-sur-la-vignette-crit’air-

The (GOOGLE-translated) guidance reads as follows

No French article specifically mentions the weight of an 'autocaravane' having a bearing on the Rouen ZFE exemptions, though - as Robinhood has said - the VASP van-conversion category has a 3500kg limit.

French and UK systems identify motorhomes as 'light' (not exceeding 3500kg gross weight) or 'heavy' (exceeding 3500kg gross weight) and different regulations can be applied to a motorhome on a weight basis. The Rouen ZFE team clearly recognises that 'foreign' vehicle registration systems may not match the French system and (based on their response to my query) whether a foreign-registered motorhome is 'light' or 'heavy' will not be a factor where the ZFE exemptions are concerned.

[Brian Kirby]

If anyone remains a little unsure about the vehicle categories VASP, CTTE, and VP, this link should (I hope! 🙂) provide clarity in English.  https://tinyurl.com/25fkp5aq 

But, in essence it refers to the description of the vehicle type in your V5C registration document ("carte grise" in French, translated in the link "grey card"), at item D5, which for UK registered vehicles should read "MOTOR CARAVAN".  This is the equivalent of the French designation "VASP Caravan", and any vehicle with that "Body type" designation at D5 will comply with the Rouen ZFE derogation as Derek's post above.

"CTTE" is a commercial vehicle (a "fourgon", or van), which will not be legal within the Rouen ZFE unless it is electric, or has a Crit'Air sticker 1, 2 or 3.

"VP" is a private vehicle (basically a car) which, again, unless it is electric, or has a Crit'Air sticker 1, 2 or 3, will also not legal inside the Rouen ZFE.

[Robinhood]

I think, being more clear (I hope), that in France a vehicle originally registered as a motorcaravan will be described as a "caravane" on its documents. A vehicle originally registered as a commercial vehicle or private (non-motorcaravan) with a maximum weight of 3.5 tonnes can, subject to conversion, qualification and certification be homologated and re-registered under the "VASP" category.

As the latter category doesn't exist in the UK, but it is still possible, with rather more hoops to go through than once was the case, to re-register a similar-origin vehicle as a motor caravan, effectively we are saying that if your UK vehicle has "motor caravan" at D5, then the derogation will apply by alignment with "caravane".

[Derek Uzzell]

Yes, I agree with that and - as a UK-registered vehicle with "motor caravan" at D5 on its V5C should have been assigned to the Private/Light Goods tax class (not exceeding 3500kg gross weight) or to the Private HGV tax class (exceeding 3500kg gross weight) - logically 'light' AND 'heavy' UK-registered motorhomes should be exempted from Rouen's ZFE rules until June 30 2024.

[Brian Kirby]

1 hour ago, Robinhood said:

I think, being more clear (I hope), that in France a vehicle originally registered as a motorcaravan will be described as a "caravane" on its documents. A vehicle originally registered as a commercial vehicle or private (non-motorcaravan) with a maximum weight of 3.5 tonnes can, subject to conversion, qualification and certification be homologated and re-registered under the "VASP" category.

As the latter category doesn't exist in the UK, but it is still possible, with rather more hoops to go through than once was the case, to re-register a similar-origin vehicle as a motor caravan, effectively we are saying that if your UK vehicle has "motor caravan" at D5, then the derogation will apply by alignment with "caravane".

Correct Bob!  I unthinkingly used the Google Translate spelling of "caravane", instead of the French.  However, as the one is 90% of the other, and looks very similar, I doubt a French "policier" would make too much of a meal out of the difference between "auto caravane" and "motor caravan".  🙂 

[Brian Kirby]

Routes South avoiding the Rouen LEZ (ZFE). 

I’m assuming most of those wishing to avoid the Rouen LEZ will be travelling South or Southwest from Dieppe or Calais.  So, I’ve done a bit of exploring for routes South from either, avoiding both the Rouen LEZ and the fringes Paris.

From Dieppe to the Spainsh Border at Irun, I’d suggest passing Rouen to the East, by taking the D915 via Gournay-en-Bray to just North of Lierville, then right onto D153/D86 to Magny-en-Vexin, then D983 to Mantes-la-Ville.  You have now avoided both the Rouen LEZ and the Western fringes of Paris.  The route is toll free to Irun via Dreux, Chartres, Orleans, Vierzon, Chateauroux, Angouleme, Bordeaux and Irun. 

Dieppe - Irun (for Spanish border and San Sebastian) 616 miles, driving time approx. 13 hours. 

Ditto if heading for the Spainsh border at Le Perthus (for Costa Brava etc.).  Distance 684 miles, driving time approx. 14 ¼ hours.  This route is also toll free, except for the Millau Viaduct (which can be avoided, albeit at some five miles increase in distance and 15 – 30 minutes extra time, by instead driving through Millau).  As Irun route above to Orleans, then Nevers, Moulins, Clermont-Ferrand, Millau Viaduct, Beziers, Narbonne, Perpignan and Le Perthus.

Dieppe – Le Perthus 684 miles, driving time approx. 14 ¼ hours.

From Calais (Coquelles terminal) to Irun, I’d suggest taking A16 (toll free) South to Boulogne, continuing south on A16 (toll) to Abbeville (toll free alternative via N416/D901 to Nampont and  D1001 to Abbeville), and then A28 (toll free) South to exit 12, and then left (West) onto D928 for two 2 miles, left again onto D15 via Morgny-la-Pommeraye, then D12/D85 to Martinville-Epreville, and ahead onto D13 and follow D13 to junction (roundabout) with D6015, where left onto D6015 to Igoville, crossing the Seine at Pont de l’Arche, and then on to Incarville, where right to D6154 for 1 mile, and right again onto A154/N154 (by-passing Evreux), and on to Nonancourt, where left onto N12, right onto D828 (Dreux by-pass) and finally right onto N154.  You have now avoided both the Rouen LEZ and the Western fringes of Paris.  Once onto the N154 south from Dreux, follow the Dieppe – Irun toll free route. 

Distance: Coquelles - Irun 680 miles, driving time approx. 14 hours.

From Calais (Coquelles terminal) to Le Perthus it is simplest to pass East of Paris, so avoiding the Rouen area completely.  Depending on whether you are happy to take toll roads:

a) toll free roads: 791 miles, driving time approx. 16 ½ hours.

b) on toll roads: 770 miles, driving time approx..13 hours.

c) a shorter route using the following toll sections: A26 Calais – Arras, A1 Bapaume – Senlis, A71 Riom – Clermont-Ferrand, A75 Millau Viaduct, and A75/A9 Beziers – Le Boulou.  (There are toll free, though slower, and slightly longer, alternatives to all the above toll sections.)

Distance using the above toll sections: 712 miles, driving time approx. 15 hours.

[colin]

I would note that the UK now has a policy of converted vans being 'van with windows', how do they fit in?

[Derek Uzzell]

My view is that any UK-registered vehicle that does not have "MOTOR CARAVAN" on its V5C falls outside  Rouen's 'autocaravane' ZFE exemption until 30 June 2024.

(It's highly unlikely that the DVLA's 'van with windows' thing would cause problems as long as the vehicle resembled a motor caravan.)

[Brian Kirby]

I found a definition of the alterations necessary to convert a van from a CTTE (van) into a VASP CARAVANE, and it derives from EC Directive 2007/46/EC.  Under law implementing the Directive, the French include motor caravans within the overall blanket category of Special Purpose Vehicles (French: Véhicule Automoteur Spécifique, hence VASP) which then requires further definition as to the actual special purpose, hence "caravan").

So, from the English version of the Directive we get:

DIRECTIVE 2007/46/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 5 September 2007

ANNEX II Definition of vehicle categories and vehicle types

5. ‘Special purpose vehicle’ means a vehicle intended to perform a function which requires special body arrangements and/or equipment.  This category shall include wheel-chair accessible vehicles

5.1. ‘Motor Caravan’ means a special purpose M category vehicle constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:

— seats and table,

— sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats, L 263/64 EN Official Journal of the European Union 9.10.2007

— cooking facilities, and

— storage facilities.

This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

Under French law verification that the para 5.1 requirements are in place is checked during the Controle Technique (MoT test), so compliance is essential for the vehicle to be deemed roadworthy.  It seems this is the definition that the Rouen authorities have latched onto in formulating their derogation.  

So long as, as Derek says, the vehicle has in place the minimum habitation facilities set out in para 5.1 of the Directive, it should be accepted as complying with the Directive, and hence the derogation, irrespective of its country of registration.

[ChasB]

21 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

Routes South avoiding the Rouen LEZ (ZFE). 

 

Brian

My route south through Rouen is A28, N28 under the tunnel towards the Seine, but not crossing over. I then turn left onto the D6015 to Le Port Saint-Ouen and on to Igoville before crossing the Seine at  Pont-de-l'Arche. I know part of my route is through the LEZ but my Adria has a Crit'air vignette 2. To avoid any confusion I take it I comply?

Regards Chas