teccer1234 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I got my stickers from ebay but they show a motorhome instead of a bus or a lorry, been told they are not legal as they should have a bus or lorry on, have others used the ones with a MH on with no problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Yes, I have for 4 weeks in June, but then I did not see many French police (unusually), certainly not on foot likely to see mine up close I had heard/read the same info as you, but given the number of Motorhomes potentially over 3500 kg allegedly not displaying any stickers at all, I was not concerned. I should point out that the version I have is an A class van, so the outline is not much different to the bus version, just the configuration of door and windows. i suspect it would only be an issue if you met a grumpy Gendarme and you wound him up if you had the misfortune to be stopped or involved in an accident. Buy a ‘legal’ set, act the innocent and offer to replace the Motorhome ones if challenged. Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 The French 'angles morts signs' law was introduced in January 2021 and was discussed here later that year. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/52742-angles-mort-stickers/ Only two versions of the sign are defined in that law - one carries a drawing of a truck/lorry and the other of a a bus/coach. Both signs are shown in this February 2021 French motorhome magazine article https://www.camping-car.com/reglementation/26341-piqure-de-rappel-la-signalisation-des-angles-morts-est-obligatoire-pour-les-camping-cars-de-plus-de-35-tonnes A cursory GOOGLE-search reveals that 'motorhome' versions of the signs are widely advertised nowadays with no standardisation of the drawing of the vehicle. There are even adverts for 'camping-car' signs where the advert is French and the signs themselves are said to be made in France (example here) https://www.signaletique.biz/signalisation-transport/21854-autocollants-attention-angles-morts-camping-car.html The original French regulation has not been modified to add a third version of the sign to cover motorhomes. So angles morts signs that differ from the specification given in the regulation are not legal and their use could attract a fine. It appears that either (or both!) of the signs (truck or bus) could legally be used on a motorhome, though the logical choice would be the (passenger-carrying) bus sign. As Davy has said, some of the 'motorhome' signs carry a vehicle-drawing similar to that on the bus sign, but others differ significantly (example here) In normal circumstances I very much doubt that French police would care about the vehicle image as long as a 'heavy' motorhome displayed the right number of signs in the right place. However, if a UK 'heavy' motorhome carrying the sign shown in the above image were involved in an accident where the signs were important (eg. a reckless French cyclist gets killed) a canny clued-up French solicitor or policeman MIGHT raise the illegality issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 We just drove up through France displaying the lorry type stickers, two of them at least, but changed them for the M/H ones bought at Narbonne camping shop en-route. On the Motorhome Madness forum, a lady claims to have been fined for having truck, and not M/H stickers on her van, so I guess that the jury is out as to which are the correct stickers to have!! We are Spanish plated now, but whether that would make any difference, I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 When the 'angles morts' law came into force in 2021, both of the main French motorhome magazines reported on this. As there were (and still are) only two designs of sticker (bus or truck) defined in the regulation, one magazine referenced this by advising (GOOGLE translation) A final word on the look of the signs: it doesn't matter whether you opt for the truck or the bus, both are valid on motorhomes. While waiting for a hypothetical dedicated sticker? There has been no subsequent introduction of an 'official' angles morts sticker dedicated for motorhome use only (and why should there be?) and - although the bus sticker would be the obvious one to use for motorhomes - using the truck sticker SHOULD also be OK. I can imagine a motorhome owner being penalised for using a sticker that is not the officially recognised bus or truck design, but not for using the officially recognised truck design rather than the (logically) more appropriate bus version. The French regulation applies to all foreign-registered over-3500kg-GVW vehicles irrespective of the country in which they are registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 18, 2023 Share Posted July 18, 2023 Hi We have a large group in our club that tour France every year with quite a few including my own motorhome over 3.5 T. We have been stopped many times for checks and no one has had any issue with having the Official Angles Morts warning signs up (some had the truck and others as Derek advises the most common appropriate looking Bus image). They were all given a thumbs up every time . One of our members had a motorcycle carrier and was told it needed one to be visible on the carrier as his protective cover blocked the rear warning sign on his motorhome, He received just a warning and friendly banter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjp Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I have just spent 4 weeks in Belgium and Germany. I was suprised at the large number of motorhomes. That did not have the Angles Morts stick on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayc Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 33 minutes ago, Philjp said: I have just spent 4 weeks in Belgium and Germany. I was suprised at the large number of motorhomes. That did not have the Angles Morts stick on them. They are not required for Belgium or Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I have 3 of the coach type stickers. I stuck them onto perspex and used commercial type Velcro to stick onto MH this making it easy to remove in the Uk just downsized and no longer required. live in Worcester and free to anyone that wants them den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Considering the number of motor homes that are 3.8 ton using identical bodies as 3.5 tons and vice versa. I am surprised the legislation is not for 3.5 tons and above, rather than above 3.5 tons. rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 A French official press release published on 23 November 2020 included the following (GOOGLE-translated) statement The decree published on 20/11/2020, relating to the signalling identifying the blind spots on vehicles, the total authorized weight of which exceeds 3.5 tonnes, sets up this signalling device and specifies its location: it must be visible on the sides as well as at the rear of the vehicle. This obligation applies to heavy vehicles circulating on national territory. The decree excludes from its scope agricultural and forestry vehicles on the one hand, and winter service vehicles and intervention vehicles of the departments managing motorways or dual carriageways on the other hand, which are not intended to operate in dense urban environments. When French vehicle-related regulations categorise a vehicle's weight, the 'split' is Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) up to and including 3500kg (véhicules légers/'light vehicles) or GVW exceeding 3500kg (véhicules poids lourds/heavy vehicles). The angles morts law applies to ANY vehicle in the latter category (with specified exclusions) that is being driven on French territory. The type of vehicle is not a factor, nor where the vehicle is registered, so any lorry, bus or motorhome with a GVW over 3500kg and registered in France, Spain, Germany, the UK, etc. should carry the angles morts stickers. The stickers come in two designs, each showing a generic heavy vehicle and drawing attention to the blind-spot danger areas. One design shows a truck and the other shows a bus. The lorry and bus sticker designs both show a vehicle with three axles, but I've never come across any suggestion that the law might not apply to trucks or buses with more (or less) than three axles. As a result of French driving-licence laws, the relative number of French-registered motorhomes with a GVW exceeding 3500kg is very small and - as there's been minimal discussion to the contrary - owners of French-registered 'heavy' motorhomes seemingly are not concerned that official stickers only depict a truck or a bus. And (presumably) if they choose to display the stickers (!!) they are likely to pick the bus version. In the UK there are lots of 'heavy' motorhomes and (Lord knows why) it seems to have offended owners wishing to drive such vehicles in France to be compelled to put truck or bus stickers on their prized possession. Hence the present market for unauthorised angles morts sticker designs showing some sort of motorhome image. It would be interesting to know if a similar situation exists in Germany (where there will be plenty of 'heavy' motorhomes and easy access to France) or perhaps German motorhome owners just follow the French law and always choose one of the two official sticker designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: It would be interesting to know if a similar situation exists in Germany (where there will be plenty of 'heavy' motorhomes and easy access to France) or perhaps German motorhome owners just follow the French law and always choose one of the two official sticker designs. I don't know what is being bought in Germany, but ebay.de is awash with listings for Angles Morts stickers depicting "Wohnmobile". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 A GOOGLE-search on angles morts wohnmobil confirms what you've said. However, it seems to be quite common for German motorhome-related websites to advise against using stickers that differ in design from the two officially specified truck or bus variants. This 12 May 2023 German article https://camperstyle.de/angles-morts-aufkleber-wohnmobil-toter-winkel-frankreich/ contains the (GOOGLE-translated) section shown below. A dedicated motorhome sticker was discussed here in January 2021 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/51186-blind-spot-signage-for-heavy-duty-vans/ and although such things are now widely advertised, there must still be a marketing niche to offer bespoke stickers that carry a picture of one's own motorhome. I've attached below a few currently available 'motorhome' stickers, but imagine how much classier it would be to have a picture of your own 'van on the sticker to match the vehicle's personalised UK registration-plate. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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