Caravan and Camping Club-disillisioned member?

[Guest caraprof]

chas - 2007-07-24 3:03 PM Caraprof- I think if you read again my idea that exists in some E.U countries of paid for EHU you will see that NO armies of wardens need to come round to read meters, No waiting to pay if you need to be away early on the morning of departure, provided you paid your dues the evening before, and if the gates had been opened by then in any case. I stated from the start that a certain outlay of funds would be required, but that would only apply to the already existing electric bollards. So lets just state again if it is not clear, say 4 pitches with a central bollard in, each with its own numbered connection and coin or token slot, tokens bought at the time of booking in, if any are left over cashed in on final bill payment on leaving. The bollards would be emptied perhaps every week by one operative. Its so simple an idea thats why its used by some of our E.U cousins, its bound to fail over here through lack of vision by sites who put profit before customer service.

I have never found a site with a coin slot for my EHU! The ones that meter electricity often lock the box and you do have to have it unlocked before you leave. And how can you pay the night before you leave? What about the power used during the night and on the morning of departure?

As for sites that offer good service succeeding or not as the case may be, you are right of course. The CC is a very unsuccessful organisation. It's sites are always empty, its membership is diminishing and it has no future.

Oops, sorry, I was dreaming a bit there. It turns out that its just the opposite.

I'm out of this debate. It's getting pointless. Carry on with your gripes about the CC if you like but eventually you'll realise one day that you and a few others are out of step with the vast majority who are very happy with the CC and its policies, as the figures prove absolutely indisputably.

[Mel B]

...... sorry Frank, just because you say it's so, doesn't mean it is, you have your view, and let others have theirs.

 

Sophistry again eh? Please use it in the correct context - if I was deliberately being devious and trying to mislead that would be one thing and the word would be appropriate, however my having a different view to you doesn't mean that I'm doing this, so please refrane from using it against me and find a more appropriate and accurate 'big' word instead if you're going to keep trying to use them in conversation on here to dispute what I believe. Oh, but then again, seeing as you've said that you're out of this debate I suppose I'll just have to do without any more of the big ones! :-S

[empress]

Oh! I love these disagreements. Keep it up, Mel!

 

Empress

[Mel B]

Now, now, you lot, stop getting so excited!!!! You're just imagining Frank all of a lather and you'd all like to get your hands on him to give him a rub down!!!! I've got you 'ladies' sussed!!!!! ;-)

[laikaman]

Can you book a pitch on a CC club and not have the elec hook up? and therefore not pay for it? also although these clubs are run on a commercial basis we seem to be forgetting that as members it is still 'our' club and we as members should have the club run how we want it not be at the whim of the various committee's run by a small few :-|

[Bazza454]

laikaman - 2007-07-25 11:39 PM Can you book a pitch on a CC club and not have the elec hook up? and therefore not pay for it? also although these clubs are run on a commercial basis we seem to be forgetting that as members it is still 'our' club and we as members should have the club run how we want it not be at the whim of the various committee's run by a small few :-|

There are a number of CC sites with economy pitches, without electric -

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/planning+your+trip/uk+trips/how+to+book/pitch+types/pitch+types.htm

In terms of "running the club", as a member you have the same rights as a member of any private members club in the UK - Labour, Liberal, Conservative, WorkingMens, Golf, Fishing, CC, C and CC etc etc etc, you put youself forward for election to the Committee and if you are elected you then have a say in the running of the Club. Simple.

[Guest caraprof]

laikaman - 2007-07-25 11:39 PM Can you book a pitch on a CC club and not have the elec hook up? and therefore not pay for it? also although these clubs are run on a commercial basis we seem to be forgetting that as members it is still 'our' club and we as members should have the club run how we want it not be at the whim of the various committee's run by a small few :-|

Your implication that a small committee is overriding the views of the majority could not be more wrong I'm afraid!

The vast majority of CC members want electricity. The reason that the club went 'all electric' is because of that. These committees are made up of ordinary members whose major decisions are then put to an AGM.

Electricity on CC sits is now a dead duck. The very tiny minority who oppose it have a simple choice, which is to leave the CC. As it happens, most of the more vociferous ones aren't even members but still they continue the debate.

It's all over ladies and gentlemen, let it rest!

[CliveH]

I understood that one of the reasons why electric hook up was no longer charged for seperately was because to do so meant that the supplier (the camp-site) would then be regulated as an electricity supplier.

 

Offereing an inclusive package gets round this.

 

I know I read this a while back somewhere but cannot think where it was.

[Mel B]

caraprof - 2007-07-26 7:41 AM

laikaman - 2007-07-25 11:39 PM Can you book a pitch on a CC club and not have the elec hook up? and therefore not pay for it? also although these clubs are run on a commercial basis we seem to be forgetting that as members it is still 'our' club and we as members should have the club run how we want it not be at the whim of the various committee's run by a small few :-|

Your implication that a small committee is overriding the views of the majority could not be more wrong I'm afraid!

The vast majority of CC members want electricity. The reason that the club went 'all electric' is because of that. These committees are made up of ordinary members whose major decisions are then put to an AGM.

Electricity on CC sits is now a dead duck. The very tiny minority who oppose it have a simple choice, which is to leave the CC. As it happens, most of the more vociferous ones aren't even members but still they continue the debate.

It's all over ladies and gentlemen, let it rest!

You speak as if you are an authority on the CC Frank, so can you give me details of where to find the statistics, reports, surveys etc to support your statements please. I'm sure any such documents would make interesting reading. 8-) Vociferous: Vociferous people express their opinions and complaints loudly and repeatedly in speech ... reminds me of someone else, maybe the pot calling the kettle? :-D :-D :-D

[Guest caraprof]

Mel B wrote:

You speak as if you are an authority on the CC Frank, so can you give me details of where to find the statistics, reports, surveys etc to support your statements please. I'm sure any such documents would make interesting reading.

I do not claim to be an 'authority' on the CC but I do still have a memory. If you are still in the CC look in your handbook and you will see the structure, which is basically six separate committees. These committees are staffed by members.

Many years ago the club found that the vast number of its members wanted electricity. Remember, the majority, more so in those days, were caravanners who are not as self-contained as motorhomers. The Sites sub-Committee made the decision to fit EHUs on every pitch (where possible). There was also another aspect which was something to do with the supply of electricity, but it's so long ago that I can't remember the details. Possibly it was something like the suggestion put forward by CliveH above?

Naturally, there were some members who opposed this but at the following AGM the motion was passed. There is no doubt that a few people left the CC as a result of this decision.

All of these facts are available to anyone who wishes to contact the CC. To suggest that I ought to have all the paperwork is somewhat fatuous and adds nothing to the debate.

As I've said before, why do you continue to flog this dead horse? The CC has continued to grow, you yourself admit to being unable to book sites because of the club's popularity so why do you keep this going? The policy is obviously acceptable to the vast majority - I personally prefer it to the complex system employed on some Continental sites this summer, which was: pay a connection fee, wait until someone comes to open the box and take a reading and repeat the whole procedure when you go.

The CC (and many other sites by the way) offers a simple, one price package and as I'm getting fed up with repeating, that, if you don't like it, that's no problem, it's a free country and it's your choice, leave and join another club or use private sites.

If you really believe that the vast majority of CC members are on your side then it's incredibly simple - before the next AGM you put forward a motion to separate the electricty charge. As with all such motions it will be debated and voted on. Good luck to you!

One thing that no one can argue is that the CC is a very democratic organisation, it is run by its members for its members. The DG and other paid executives take their instructions from the members.

As I said, if you are still a member, read your book, it's all in there, the committees, the constitutions, the lot!

You'll be pleased to hear that this is my final word on this. It's all pointless as I said earlier. Electricity is a fait accompli, it's welcomed by the majority and the only thing keeping this arument going is a few very large bees in some bonnets.

[Mel B]

caraprof - 2007-07-26 8:29 PM

You'll be pleased to hear that this is my final word on this. It's all pointless as I said earlier. Electricity is a fait accompli, it's welcomed by the majority and the only thing keeping this arument going is a few very large bees in some bonnets.

I really can't be bothered to pick through all of your last posting Frank, even though I disagree with some of it, I really don't see the point, it must be getting very boring for others to read and so I'll leave you to, no doubt, have the last word after this posting of mine.As for the last paragraph above, make sure your bonnet is tight and don't get stung! :-S ;-)

[Guest caraprof]

Mmmm, the usual excuse for someone who's run out of argument. Nevertheless I'm very pleased, as banging my head against this brickwall was getting even more boring!

[colin]

I would normaly have no interest at all in what CC charges for electricity, but this arguement triggered a memory that electricity cannot be resold at a profit, so out of curouscity I looked it up, and found (amongst others) the following document,

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Consumers/Documents1/1970-mrp.pdf

Looking at their example they have calculated a charge of £1.46pw, does ofgem realy believe this is what anyone paid for electric on site in 2003?

If anyone knows of a site that charges 21p per day for electricity let me know, they will be on my list of sites to stay at.

[Guest caraprof]

colin - 2007-07-28 7:54 PM I would normaly have no interest at all in what CC charges for electricity, but this arguement triggered a memory that electricity cannot be resold at a profit, so out of curouscity I looked it up, and found (amongst others) the following document, http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Consumers/Documents1/1970-mrp.pdf Looking at their example they have calculated a charge of £1.46pw, does ofgem realy believe this is what anyone paid for electric on site in 2003? If anyone knows of a site that charges 21p per day for electricity let me know, they will be on my list of sites to stay at.

Thank you Colin for this. Without going into details about the breakdown of costs, what this document does show is that the CC or any other organisation cannot just charge a figure that is plucked from the air, or one on which it makes an unfair profit.

This will not sit well with those few people who know in their hearts that the CC is run by a small coterie of evil plutocrats whose sole mission in life is to instigate unfair policies that are loathed by the majority of its members, who as we all know, are leaving in droves!

[laikaman]

Are there any figures re members leaving the CC and CCC? (?)

[Guest caraprof]

laikaman - 2007-07-29 9:37 AM Are there any figures re members leaving the CC and CCC? (?)

Like any similar organisation it will have what is known as a 'churn' rate, which is a number leaving as well as a number joining. Obviously, they don't suit everyone but the duty of any clubs like these must be to tailor their policies to the majority of their members. And of course a large number stop caravanning for many reasons and a large number take it up.

Both of these clubs have shown consistent growth over the last few years so it's fairly obvious that most of us are very happy with what's being provided.

I accept that clubs such as these are not for everyone. I accept that including electricty and sanitary facilities in a package price may not suit the dwindling minority who do not want an electric hook up but, if anyone isn't happy, no one is forcing them to join!

There are hundreds of other sites and even more CLs available if you're not happy with the CC's inclusive pricing. I just wish that this issue could be left to rest. It's dead as a dodo now and is obviously acceptable to the vast majority of the members as the club's success shows.

[Mel B]

caraprof - 2007-07-28 7:19 PM

 

Mmmm, the usual excuse for someone who's run out of argument. Nevertheless I'm very pleased, as banging my head against this brickwall was getting even more boring!

 

No Frank, I just know when enough is enough. :-|

 

There's more to life than tangling with you on here although the fact of you banging your head against a brick wall does tempt me to keep it going! :-S

[JayKay]

Up until today I was quite happy with CCC but having tried to use the "Carefree" website to book a site in France for September and found that once again it not possible to make a connection. This is not the first time this has happened this year and has now left me dis-illusioned with CCC.

It is not just campsite charges or poor quality magazines that cause dis-illusionment with members.

I have now booked direct with the campsite and Seafrance for the crossing, looks as if I will not be renewing membership or joining another club, that should help to reduce the churn rate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AAAAAGH now that feels better, now whats the address of that camera shop in Bolton.

 

John D.

[laikaman]

I know this is dragging on a bit???? However the clubs should be run for the members benefit THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! We emailed the CCC a few days ago re our moans still no reply(what a surprise)? >:-(

[Guest caraprof]

laikaman - 2007-07-30 9:14 PM I know this is dragging on a bit???? However the clubs should be run for the members benefit THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! We emailed the CCC a few days ago re our moans still no reply(what a surprise)? >:-(

It may be going on a bit but that's because you can't seem to grasp the obvious. There may be the odd glitch, which can happen in any organisation but these clubs are run by the members. Just digest that for a second - not just run for the members, but by the members.

Here's a link to the CC's website which will explain it to you. The C&CC has a similar structure I believe.

http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/About+us/default.htm

Why is it that, whatever evidence is produced, some people just constantly moan about clubs that are at heart, looking after our interests. If you're still not happy then please, resign now. There will then be more chance that the rest of us can get pitches on popular sites at peak periods

[Mel B]

Calm down Frank ... it's only a posting. (lol)

[Guest caraprof]

Never been calmer actually. I love all this merry banter. I just wish though that all of the folk who can't stop moaning about the clubs would just bugger off from them and leave more space for me.

[Mel B]

Can't help yourself can you, always have to have a dig .... :-(

[Guest peter]

Hello Frank! Still banging on about the Caravan club I see. Nothing changes does it?. I happen to think their sites are very good and better run than the C&CC. No little man on his bike directing you to your pitch and checking if your van is dead straight. I don't like the prices of either club so only stay on them when neccessary.

[Bazza454]

peter - 2007-07-30 11:09 PM Hello Frank! Still banging on about the Caravan club I see. Nothing changes does it?. I happen to think their sites are very good and better run than the C&CC. No little man on his bike directing you to your pitch and checking if your van is dead straight. I don't like the prices of either club so only stay on them when neccessary.

I think that if you read all the posts on this thread, Frank is actually complementing the CC, not criticising it.