Fiat Ducato Radio Timeout

[AMotorhomer]

Earlier this year we bought a Swift motorhome and quickly ran into the Fiat Ducato 20 minute radio timeout problem.

Neither Swift nor Fiat showed any interest in fixing this, but Fiat/Stellantis said that we could replace the radio at our own expense if we weren't happy. Their complete indifference was extremely irritating, particularly as a "Campervan Mode" with 180 minute timeout was an option in the owner config settings on earlier models. No explanation or technical reason was given on why this was no longer available.

The CAMC Legal Advice Service response was that under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, particularly Section 10, the short timeout made the radio unfit for purpose in the context of use in a motorhome habitation unit and that we would be able to seek redress. (NB: They said that notice had to be given to the dealer within 6 months of purchase and we’re within this.) We've given the dealer notice of our intention to proceed.

Our preference is for Fiat to make a change to the timeout threshold available for all owners through their dealer network - maybe to 250 minutes - and standard on all new Ducatos being supplied for motorhome builds. However, if we have to look at getting the unit replaced then we intend to do this and expect the dealer to cover the all the costs involved.

I've written to CAMC, the CaCC, the NCC and motorhome magazines about this and logged the issue with Trading Standards. I'm also posting this in different forums to raise awareness of the position. It would be helpful if owners start to press this with dealers, manufacturers and Fiat with the aim of getting a config change made available. Fiat/Stellantis might find this an easier option than the prospect of thousands of radio units being replaced and the financial, environmental and reputational cost that could result.

Fiat say the 20 minute timeout is to protect the vehicle battery from draining, but as users simply can switch the unit back on when it switches off, this isn't actually achieved.

The condition of the battery displays in the vehicle information display and a rather better solution might be to disable accessories when the battery charge drops below a defined level and to warn the user. This would protect the battery for motorhome owners off-grid while enabling indefinite accessory use for those connected to mains power and/or with a solar panel providing battery charge when the engine isn't running.

A rather better way to protect the battery?

[ChasB]

The problem with our radio was that when the ignition was off we couldn't have the radio on or play cd's. We also had a battery drain when the radio was off, the reason being that the radio has two electrical feeds. One to power it and the second to retain it's memory.

To solve these problems we got our dealer to wire the radio into the leisure battery.

[onecal]

Hi 

I think the last thing one wants to do is mess with whats in there and working Why not install a second radio/CD player off your leisure battery or use the radio off your TV . Hope this helps 

Regards

[Grumpyman]

We had this problem with our Starburst 2006. I took it to a car radio workshop can't quite remember what they did l think they fitted a couple of diodes. Problem solved.

Grumpyman

[mtravel]

That's why solicitor exist and drive Morelos.

Stellantis will say that the behaviour is well descripted somewhere in their marketing stuff.

Swift that is a well known issue as stated by Stellantis.

Next time buy a Malibu that has a standard "magic button" to switch the appliance from engine to leisure 12V supply.

[Derek Uzzell]

I don't know if this will be relevant to current-model Ducatos, but when the '20 minutes' issue was discussed on the MHFun forum 4 years ago

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/auto-radio-off-over-ride.175019/

forum member Deneb's posting of March 29 2019 mentioned successfully using the AlfaOBD app to tweak the vehicle's body computer.

I've copied the post below 

For anyone who might still be wondering how to do this on the Uconnect 5.0 (VP2) radios, I've solved it, but it's not easy!

The radio off delay is a configurable setting in the body computer. 0 minutes (switch off with the ignition) is an always available option, so you can't remove that from the radio menu, but the delay time is configurable as 20, 60 or 180 minutes.

However, it would seem from previous postings here and elsewhere that Fiat dealers are either unwilling or unable to change this setting. It may be that the option is not available in the dealer diagnostic software. It isn't possible in MultiEcuScan either, but it can be done through a useful little app called AlfaOBD, available for Android and Windows PC.

You need the registered version to be able to make programming adjustments. The Android app costs £31 through Google Play Store and is automatically activated to the download device by purchase.

You will also need a compatible OBD adaptor (Bluetooth or WiFi for the Android app, I think the PC version can also use USB connections).

After selecting Fiat Pro as the make, then your particular version of the Ducato, connect to the Body Computer. The programming option allows selection of a Car Configuration Change procedure. Amongst the options is Switch-off Time, which can be set to 20, 60 or 180 minutes as above. Once the programming has completed, you need to carry out a Proxi Alignment procedure to ensure that the configuration change is notified to the network nodes on the vehicle. However, this is somewhat difficult with the Android app as you need a different connector cable for the OBD adaptor to be able to connect to some of the nodes that the Proxi Alignment procedure needs to write to, so I found it easiest to switch back to MultiEcuScan to complete the process. After the Proxi Alignment has completed, switch off the ignition, remove the key and shut all doors for at least 1 minute - job done 

I was also able to clear two persistent trouble codes on my van, related to non-existent rear speakers. Because the van was factory configured with a connection at the conversion socket for rear speakers, the Telematics ECU has always complained of L&R rear speaker wiring faults as none are actually fitted. I was able to also change the Acoustic Configuration and Speaker Configuration settings in the BCU from 6 to 4 speaker cab - no more trouble codes and everything is working as it should 

AlfaOBD also appears to allow programming of Peugeot Boxer and Citroen Relay ECUs, although not having either of those vans I can't try it.

One warning about AlfaOBD though: It allows you to attempt to program a lot of settings which may not be applicable to your vehicle, so you really need to know the default configuration before you start or you could find yourself in a lot of trouble. It would be better if it only showed the settings that are present for the ECU it is currently connected to, in my opinion.

[stevec176]

Probably not what you're after but less hassle, on my van the dealer fitted a separate on/off power switch for the radio.

[mtravel]

5 hours ago, stevec176 said:

Probably not what you're after but less hassle, on my van the dealer fitted a separate on/off power switch for the radio.

Like I did DYI in late eighties on my Arca.

[ChasB]

7 hours ago, stevec176 said:

Probably not what you're after but less hassle, on my van the dealer fitted a separate on/off power switch for the radio.

That's what our dealer did but it's wired the radio into the leisure battery. No drain on the engine battery!!

[AMotorhomer]

Thanks for the responses.

I think the position is complicated by the fact that in the latest Ducato the radio is actually managed by the body control unit.

The dealer is now in touch with Swift about a resolution, but a fix available to all owners through the Fiat dealer network to extend the timeout would seem the easiest way for all.

[onecal]

Hi 

Yes this can be done of course  , but again the last thing one wants to do is mess with whats in there and working Why not install a second radio/CD player off your leisure battery or use the radio off your TV . Hope this helps 

Regards

[colin]

My thoughts are that any load put on the vehicle battery whilst the engine is off is a big mistake, even a low volt cutoff will just lead to more flat batteries.

A much better idea would be for Swift to dump the caravan councils outdated recommendations and allow the leisure battery to be on whilst driving so the radio can be powered by that. If German vans such as mine can do this without problems so can they.

[Keithl]

2 hours ago, colin said:

A much better idea would be for Swift to dump the caravan councils outdated recommendations and allow the leisure battery to be on whilst driving so the radio can be powered by that. If German vans such as mine can do this without problems so can they.

The radio can be wired directly to the leisure battery thereby negating the need to have the habitation electrics turned on while driving. In fact this is how AutoTrail has done it for many years, my 2004 is most certainly wired this way from the factory.

[colin]

10 minutes ago, Keithl said:

The radio can be wired directly to the leisure battery thereby negating the need to have the habitation electrics turned on while driving. In fact this is how AutoTrail has done it for many years, my 2004 is most certainly wired this way from the factory.

Yes thinking about it, that is how ours is wired as the hab electrics don't need to be on for the radio to work. Whatever, for the past 15 years there have been regular posts from people with flat vehicle batteries, so I certainly don't think increasing draw on vehicle battery is a good idea.