Buying an older van - what is the best option?

[Globebuster1]

My brother-in-law has decided that a camper/motorhome of sorts would be a good idea.

Having seen mine and visiting us in the New Forest he announced that he'd like to spent around 4-5k!

I explained that he really needed to spent a bit more, although I guess if you'd never looked at pricing before you might be shocked at the cost of a 35 year old Talbot Express!

Anyway, I've been looking at options up to 10k - clearly quite a limited choice😄

I think for that budget you'd really be safer with a van conversion over a coach-built, although anything in that price range is likely to be pretty knackered.

I just think that whilst an old van conversion may have been welded to death by now, a coach-built of that age is likely to be riddled with damp and rot that at first glance might not be visible.

Given that I've seen coach-built's rotting away at 4 or 5 years old, I really do worry at the amount of unsuspecting buyers who could well be spending 20-30k on a rotting time bomb.

I've never personally owned a van conversion, but I think if I were buying a sub 15k 'starter' now, I'd be inclined to go down that route.

For around 10k I've found one of two old Talbot based Autohome Rhapsody and Harmony models and even the odd monocoque - the rest of the coach-builts are frankly rectangular rotting boxes, that had probably succumbed to damp before their first MOT!

I still have fond memories of our first - a '76 Autohome CF coach-built bought in '94 which I stripped out, rebuilt and meticulously hand painted! 

Back in the day I guess for £500 it was worth the punt!

[Keithl]

My biggest word of warning would be watch out for SCAMMERS!

I have an Ebay search set for 'Autotrail' and regularly see adverts for early 2000's models for sub ten grand when the price should really be north of twenty grand. What the scammers are after is getting you to hand over an often sizeable deposit to 'secure' the transaction then they disappear with your money.

So warn your BiL if a deal seems to be too good to be true it almost certainly IS.

And the best of luck finding anything in the under ten grand price range that they can just buy and go out and enjoy. As you said with your first Autohome, you had to rebuild it before you could use it!

Keith.

[Globebuster1]

Thanks Keith,

I have already put him right on that!

The first dozen vans he sent me links to were a scams, Ebay and the like are riddled with them, and I do report dodgy ones if I have time - trouble is they pop up again the next day!

I now 'vet' any he is interested in - It seems I've now become his personal shopping assistant.

He might get lucky and find a nice old gem -who knows?

[david lloyd]

Buying from a dealer is not everyone’s first choice due to the higher prices but, they often do get older Motorhomes in p/x which they usually pass into trade immediately to recoup the small amount (relatively) they laid out in it.

Many of these are often well looked after by long time motorhomers who only buy from dealers and is less likely to be a scam. If you make contact with some dealers with your requirements they may very well be prepared to sell at a better price than they would get in the trade. It may very well be that there is limited or no warranty but that would be true of buying private.

Sometimes worth keeping all options open.

Good luck with the search.

David

[Brian Kirby]

I'd say (unless you've already done this 🙂 ) sit him down and ask him how he envisages using the van, and where he wants to use it.  He may be envisaging just weekend trips mainly in summer, or trips to southern Italy/Spain in winter, or even use as a mobile office which he can use wherever his work takes him.

My point is that apart from purchase cost, they all have fixed costs - insurance, maintenance, VED, etc.  So, whatever the age of the van, they need to be used to justify those costs.  Buying any motorhome for two weeks annual holiday, for example, would, IMO, be a waste of money.  They all depreciate, but when left static, they also deteriorate.  Double trouble!

Bearing in mind your own experiences - with which he may have some familiarity - he may well have all this clear in his mind, 'though his expectations of purchase prices rather suggests otherwise.  Perhaps he needs to look around at dealers/shows etc. to gain a clearer idea of what type of van, of what size, might suit his requirements - perhaps with a helpful mentor at hand to offer guidance!  😄 

He can then begin to narrow down his searches to vans that match his preferences.  Then, before wading in and buying, he could hire a van of similar type/layout for a week or so, to see how the experience matches up to the expectation.  I accept that hires are costly - but they are a lot cheaper than buying something one subsequently decides is unsuitable!

Then, if the experience changes his perception of what he wants, he can review his requirements and buy something different, or "audition" another, but different, hire van to see how that works out.

[Thai Bry]

I totally agree with Brian K on all his points.

When we started out many many years ago, we at 1st hired a motorhome - Swift Royale - for a fortnight. This initially gave us the bug to try this life style.

However, you must bear in mind that it's a hobby/ lifestyle that should be enjoyed - if possible - all year round, and not just the usual 2 week's break, or 1/2 term breaks if you have a family. Or even little long week-end breaks.

We are now on our 5th van, having retired we tend to spend even more time away. Mainly now touring this country, as we think we've done enough - if you can call it that - of mainland Europe.

As previously stated, there are a lot of side issues to look at from a financial aspect. Insurance mainly , as even if the vehicle is "SORNED"  - to cut back on road tax, it still must be insured to cover for any damage or even theft.

Sit them down and go through all the pros and cons.

Buying older vans may not be the best option, if you look at potentially throwing good money after bad on repairs. Or even the 1st choice may not give the best layout that suits.

We're actually on our 5th van - 2nd A class - and feel its the layout that suits us. Things may change as we get older - and climbing into our bed over the rear garage - has become a little slower.

Hope some of this information is of help

[Tracker]

Personally I would not touch a Talbot Express base van as a Boxer / Ducato, often known as 'Sevel' from the factory they were first made in 1981 is leaps ahead both in terms of rust control and road manners.

The petrol engined vans are more pleasant to drive than the early diesels and used to be less sought after so less expensive to buy but perfectly adequate for limited use especially in the UK where diesel fuel continues to be more expensive than petrol.

I have no experience of parts availability for oldies but I would expect that Sevel vans and Ford Transits would be a better bet than other makes and A class vans.

That said these vans/chassis cabs are now up to 40 years old so buyer beware. Best to take someone with you who knows about where to look for terminal or expensive stuctural corrosion or mechanical woes as a full MOT is no guarantee that the van is solid - just that it is not yet bad enough to fail on the day.

We always found the hab parts of older Autosleepers to be more durable - particularly the GRP one piece coachbuilt body mouldings - than many other UK based conversions but their insulation can be woeful if winter use is envisaged. There is also a very good owners club - ASOC - for the exchange of info and support.

They can be great fun at a sensible cost so I can see the attraction of a pre electronic age vehicle so long as the owner is savvy about servicing, spares, maintenance and repairs.

An internet trawl might well find other groups for oldies plus this and other forums can be a great source of help but do bear in mind that old vans and their owners are a diminishing resource!

If you find a van you like ask about it on here - you never know there may still be someone left who can recall having one!

Owning an older van needs a particular attitude and state of mind. Be prepared to search and wait for parts and advice, be prepared to be off the road at the most inconvenient times, have a decent breakdown recovery provider, have somewhere safe to park it and work on it, be prepared to modify (bodge) to overcome problems.

Plan for the worst and hope for the best!

Edited February 17 by Tracker
added

[Brian Kirby]

One thing no one has mentioned so far is emissions.  Obvious, I know, but the number of LEZs in UK and around Europe is proliferating and, so far as older, particularly diesel powered, vans are concerned, liable to become increasing restrictive.

This may affect the anticipated "freedom to roam" expectations of the owner, but will also, I suspect, begin to erode the resale value of older vehicles apart from those relative few whose hobby is the vehicle itself, as opposed to its use.

So, especially if your BiL has his sights on Europe, I'd suggest he looks for base vehicles with at least a Euro 5 emissions designation to minimise the need to tip-toe around LEZ restricted routes and stopovers.  Even if he presently thinks he'll stay in UK it is odd how, once the bug bites, the lure of those "faraway places with strange sounding names", that others reference in glowing terms, begins peek one's curiosity!  🙂 

[laimeduck]

41 minutes ago, Brian Kirby said:

One thing no one has mentioned so far is emissions.  Obvious, I know, but the number of LEZs in UK and around Europe is proliferating and, so far as older, particularly diesel powered, vans are concerned, liable to become increasing restrictive.

This may affect the anticipated "freedom to roam" expectations of the owner, but will also, I suspect, begin to erode the resale value of older vehicles apart from those relative few whose hobby is the vehicle itself, as opposed to its use.

So, especially if your BiL has his sights on Europe, I'd suggest he looks for base vehicles with at least a Euro 5 emissions designation to minimise the need to tip-toe around LEZ restricted routes and stopovers.  Even if he presently thinks he'll stay in UK it is odd how, once the bug bites, the lure of those "faraway places with strange sounding names", that others reference in glowing terms, begins peek one's curiosity!  🙂 

Or alternatively buy an older cheaper motorhome/panel van and stay in the country and tow a small car or carry a scooter/motorbike for sightseeing. We effectively part do this with our small MadAss 125cc motorbike and foldup electric bikes. We bought the bike for £700 in about 2010 and it lives in our Benimar garage, but could easily go on a trailer. 

I personally have no desire/need to drive my motorhome into large cities anyway, but I don't think you've said how your brother-in-law wants to use the van?.

Jeremy

[david lloyd]

1 hour ago, Brian Kirby said:

One thing no one has mentioned so far is emissions.  Obvious, I know, but the number of LEZs in UK and around Europe is proliferating and, so far as older, particularly diesel powered, vans are concerned, liable to become increasing restrictive.

This may affect the anticipated "freedom to roam" expectations of the owner, but will also, I suspect, begin to erode the resale value of older vehicles apart from those relative few whose hobby is the vehicle itself, as opposed to its use.

So, especially if your BiL has his sights on Europe, I'd suggest he looks for base vehicles with at least a Euro 5 emissions designation to minimise the need to tip-toe around LEZ restricted routes and stopovers.  Even if he presently thinks he'll stay in UK it is odd how, once the bug bites, the lure of those "faraway places with strange sounding names", that others reference in glowing terms, begins peek one's curiosity!  🙂 

Brian, I’m not sure when Euro 5 came in but my Pioneer Renoir is a 2006 and Euro 3. Globebuster’s brother in law has a budget of £5k -  £6k (although Globebuster has been looking at MH’s around the £10k mark). My Renoir is in the £20 - £25k price band so he may struggle with the budget for a Euro 5 model?

David

[Brian Kirby]

On 18/02/2024 at 12:30, david lloyd said:

Brian, I’m not sure when Euro 5 came in but my Pioneer Renoir is a 2006 and Euro 3. Globebuster’s brother in law has a budget of £5k -  £6k (although Globebuster has been looking at MH’s around the £10k mark). My Renoir is in the £20 - £25k price band so he may struggle with the budget for a Euro 5 model?

David

Agreed, David.  However, we don't know how, or where, Globebuster's BiL intends using his van.

Depending on his intended usage, he may, or may not, find the emissions restrictions thwart his plans, in which case he'd need to review his plans, or his budget, or adopt a workaround strategy, such as Jeremy's.

As he hasn't yet bought a van, he can decide at his leisure, at zero cost risk, and then make a more informed decision depending on his priorities.

I picked out Euro 5 because, at the time we got our last van, which was Euro 5, we had the green German emissions sticker, and the yellow French (Crit'air) sticker, which meant we could travel more or less without restrictions throughout Europe.  This still seems the case.

The older the vehicle the greater the restrictions, but lower (generally! 🙂) the cost.  So, it is just one more thing it may be worth his while weighing in the balance before he buys.

[Globebuster1]

Appreciate all the responses so far.

I think with his [very] unrealistic budget his expectations are equally limited to it's use.

Pub stops and local[ish] overnighters would be his aim, then perhaps having seen if it has an appeal long-term, to invest in something to give him more scope.

I have suggested he looks for a cheap and cheerful PVC for now, get some real time experience - and take it from there.

He did make the suggestion that he loaned mine for the odd weekend - but I told him that's not likely to happen!