Tyre choice?

[TheFrenchConnection]

We're looking at new front tyres for our Ducato-based A-Class, and possibly rears as well as I have scuffed the wall of our nearside rear and French regs will insist on a pair.

So far we've always had Continental Vanco Campers (215 70 15) but I feel they are very hard-riding, epecially on the kind of ripples and 'repairs' that the Spanish seem to specialise in. Just me, or do others feel the same?

I'd be interested in anyone's opinion on suitable replacements.

Thanks

[Derek Uzzell]

Fiat's Ducato motorhome-related recommended tyre-pressures for 215/70 R15CP 'camping-car' tyres are 5.0bar/72psi (front axle) and 5.5bar/80psi (rear axle) and, if those pressures are employed, a hard ride-quality is pretty much inevitable, particularly when the motorhome is lightly loaded.

To the best of my knowledge only Continental, Michelin and Pirelli currently market CP-marked 'camping-car' tyres.

Continental - VancoCamper

Michelin -  Agilis Camping or CrossClimate Camping

Pirelli - Carrier Camper

All of these are available with a 215/70 R15CP specification, but the Pirelli tyre is rarer and may be more difficult to source if a replacement were needed in a hurry, while CrossClimate Camping has a directional tread pattern that presents difficulties if tyre 'rotation' is envisaged or a spare-wheel is to be carried. Original tyre equipment for motorhomes built on a Ducato camping-car or AL-KO chassis will be VancoCamper or Agilis Camping, depending on which company has the tyre-supplying contract with Fiat.

There's no persuasive reason to think that when the same inflation pressures were used for each of the above tyres, that the ride-quality would noticeably differ.

This lengthy 2016 forum discussion may be of interest

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/65120-tyre-choice/#comment-716865

[mtravel]

Since 2008 I have always had the Michelin Agilis Camping CP but I think they went out of production for at least a year.

In the last change I put on the Crossclimate and for now I'm fine.

Max

[Keithl]

If you think the Camper or CP tyres are too hard riding because you have to inflate to (what I deem) excessive pressures then why not look at C or Commercial tyres?

For example my 3,800 kg AT runs on Continental C tyres at 48 psi front and 60 psi rear according to the Continental Data Book and results in a smooth ride.

Keith.

[TheFrenchConnection]

53 minutes ago, mtravel said:

Since 2008 I have always had the Michelin Agilis Camping CP but I think they went out of production for at least a year.

In the last change I put on the Crossclimate and for now I'm fine.

Max

Thanks Max,

I was coming round to the Crossclimates particularly as they have the 'three mountains' mark - not that I intend to do any snowy routes but it just avoids the hassle of carrying chains or socks for some of our routes into Spain.

How do you find the ride and wet weather grip, my main concerns with the Continentals?

Mike

[TheFrenchConnection]

8 minutes ago, Keithl said:

If you think the Camper or CP tyres are too hard riding because you have to inflate to (what I deem) excessive pressures then why not look at C or Commercial tyres?

For example my 3,800 kg AT runs on Continental C tyres at 48 psi front and 60 psi rear according to the Continental Data Book and results in a smooth ride.

Keith.

Thanks Keith,

Something to think about. I'd heard that the CP tyre sidewalls were better adapted to standing for long periods?

Mike

[Keithl]

My take is that that is marketing hype, unless anyone can prove otherwise ???

I am now on my third set of Conti C rated tyres and only have 37,500 miles on the clock so they do a LOT of standing around and I have never experienced any kind of sidewall cracking or flat spotting. I have changed both previous sets at ten years from date of manufacture as Conti advise and there were no signs of any adverse conditions when removed, call me oversafe but that is my preference.

Keith.

[TheFrenchConnection]

3 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

Fiat's Ducato motorhome-related recommended tyre-pressures for 215/70 R15CP 'camping-car' tyres are 5.0bar/72psi (front axle) and 5.5bar/80psi (rear axle) and, if those pressures are employed, a hard ride-quality is pretty much inevitable, particularly when the motorhome is lightly loaded.

To the best of my knowledge only Continental, Michelin and Pirelli currently market CP-marked 'camping-car' tyres.

Continental - VancoCamper

Michelin -  Agilis Camping or CrossClimate Camping

Pirelli - Carrier Camper

All of these are available with a 215/70 R15CP specification, but the Pirelli tyre ids rarer and may be more difficult to source if a replacement were needed in a hurry, while CrossClimate Camping has a directional tread pattern that presents difficulties if tyre 'rotation' is envisaged or a spare-wheel is to be carried. Original tyre equipment for motorhomes built on a Ducato camping-car or AL-KO chassis will be VancoCamper or Agilis Camping, depending on which company has the tyre-supplying contract with Fiat.

There's no persuasive reason to think that when the same inflation pressures were used for each of the above tyres, that the ride-quality would noticeably differ.

This lengthy 2016 forum discussion may be of interest

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/65120-tyre-choice/#comment-716865

Thanks Derek,

It has been suggested in the past to drop the pressures a touch but I'm very wary as we run very close to out 3.5 tonnes and usually use a fair bit of autoroute running with possible heat build-up. I'm thinking of thr Crossclimates for a change if nothing else!

Mike

[Keithl]

5 minutes ago, TheFrenchConnection said:

Thanks Derek,

It has been suggested in the past to drop the pressures a touch but I'm very wary as we run very close to out 3.5 tonnes and usually use a fair bit of autoroute running with possible heat build-up. I'm thinking of thr Crossclimates for a change if nothing else!

Mike

Mike,

Get your MH weighed and get individual front and rear axle weights then use one of the online load v pressure tables or the Tyre-Safe calculator and get accurate pressures to run at. You can start with plated max axle weights until you can get true axle weights.

https://www.tyresafe.org/motorhome-tyre-pressure/

[TheFrenchConnection]

Thanks Keith - great idea

Mike

[Robinhood]

A compromise here might be the Continental ContiVanContactCamper.

These are available in the required size, are CP tyres, 3 peak Mud and Snow rated, not unidirectional like the Crossclimates, and generally cheaper than the latter.

More than that, Continental will quote or document tyre pressures for these tailored to the axle loads, which is almost certain to deliver lower recommendations for either one or both axles (depending on relative loading).

I've always been careful on deciding the appropriate pressures (accompanied by real axle weights), but on camping tyres I don't run at the very high recommendations. My current CP tyres are run at 55/65, though they are bigger tyres than yours, with rather more leeway. I like to keep my fillings in place.

In the past Michelin would recommend pressures based on real weights. I have two historic emails recommending much lower pressures on CP tyres (both front and back). They will no longer make those recommendations, but the Continental data tables do, albeit slightly more conservatively.

[stevec176]

On my Rapido the tyres are Vanco Camper 215/75 R16C 116/114 R, initially they gave a hard ride using recommended pressures but after checking on TyreSafe I set them to 65psi front and 70psi rear and now a much better ride. 

[Globebuster1]

Weighing the van and getting axle weights in full touring trim is the start point.

I've noticed TyreSafe have changed their stance on CP rear axle pressures now to 80psi

Michelin will quote 80 rear too, so use the Conti configurator instead.

I run at 60/65 around 3500kg and a much better ride - I give them an occasional 'hug' after a long fast run and the tyres are never more than warm.

[mtravel]

4 hours ago, TheFrenchConnection said:

Thanks Max

How do you find the ride and wet weather grip, my main concerns with the Continentals?

Mike

I mounted the Crossclimate only 5,000 kilometers ago and only drove 300 on wet roads.

I haven't noticed any big differences but I'm of the opinion that you should drive calmly in a camper, we're on holiday and not in Silverstone.

On two campers, I had the Continental Vanco Camper as original equipment, what I noticed compared to the Agilis Camping is that they last less. About forty thousand kilometers of the Vanco against 50,000+ of the Michelin Agilis Camping.

Max

[colin]

4 hours ago, Globebuster1 said:

I've noticed TyreSafe have changed their stance on CP rear axle pressures now to 80psi

The Tyresafe calculator has become a joke, input 215/70-15 CP 109, with 2000kg front and 1500kg rear, and it returns 69psi front with a warning it is approaching max, and 80psi rear.

[TheFrenchConnection]

3 hours ago, mtravel said:

I mounted the Crossclimate only 5,000 kilometers ago and only drove 300 on wet roads.

I haven't noticed any big differences but I'm of the opinion that you should drive calmly in a camper, we're on holiday and not in Silverstone.

On two campers, I had the Continental Vanco Camper as original equipment, what I noticed compared to the Agilis Camping is that they last less. About forty thousand kilometers of the Vanco against 50,000+ of the Michelin Agilis Camping.

Max

Thanks Max, very useful. Agreed, one of the things I find about driving the camper is 'because you can't  hurry it, you don't try to' so more relaxing despite the size!

M

[Keithl]

41 minutes ago, colin said:

The Tyresafe calculator has become a joke, input 215/70-15 CP 109, with 2000kg front and 1500kg rear, and it returns 69psi front with a warning it is approaching max, and 80psi rear.

Agree, I tend to go straight to the Conti Technical Data Book but my current link doesn't work! 

So here is the 2020-2021 data book https://cdn.ndias.com/DK/_Content/brochurer/download-technical-databook.pdf

[flyboyprowler]

I changed to Conti's a couple of months ago and their tech department was really helpful. If this helps you, there is the chart they sent me and I now run at 4 bar rear and 5 bar front and the ride is fine.

Hmm, can't seem to be able to attach the form so if you would like it, send me a message with an email address and I will forward it to you.

Ainsley

[Keithl]

Hi Ainsley,

Thanks for the offer, I'll message you me email and then see if I can post the form here for others.

Keith.

[Keithl]

Ainsley has sent me the form supplied by Conti and it appears to be a page from the Data Book I linked above.

[Derek Uzzell]

 

17 hours ago, flyboyprowler said:

... I now run at 4 bar rear and 5 bar front and the ride is fine.

It's perhaps worth mentioning that Ainsley's motorhome is a Neismann+Bischoff Flair 830, a large and luxurious A-class design built on a heavyweight Iveco Daily rear-wheel-drive chassis with a twinned-wheel rear axle.  

For anyone who might have wondered about the 'unusual' scenario where a significantly lower tyre inflation pressure is being used for the rear tyres than for the front tyres, the reason is simple = there are two tyres on a Flair 830's front axle, but the rear axle has four tyres to cope with the extra weight at the Flair's rear end.