Den Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 On our return from Spain last week something strange happened. During the early hours ours dogs started barking and I noticed the lock door red light on the dash was not illuminated. I checked the sliding door which was fine, but the drivers was ajar. I thought I’d perhaps left it open. on our return home my wife can not find her gold watch which she took off when the heat caused her wrist to swell and my sat nav case has disappeared. Sat nav wasn’t in the case luckily. I couldn’t understand how entry was achieved, but a young clever mechanic popped round. I thought they’d used new technology to enter. Keyless ignition and easy entry doors, but they hadn’t they’d used old tech just a small disfigurement in the rubber surround of the door handle. mots a late 2023 Fiat pvc Malibu. with the new inner door handles you can’t use the old way of straps to make entry extremely difficult. it’s very disturbing after 22 years of no problems and it must have taken seconds to gain entry. God knows what could have happened had we not had the dogs. only King Charles, but Penny sounds like a Rottweiler. den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 I fixed a metal eye to the inside of both cab doors and a hook is attached to the seat base. The door will only open about 10-15 mm max. It's crude but simple and it works. I also adapted the habitation door with homemade "bolts" that prevent the door from being opened. Rarely use them as we mainly stay on sites but if we have concerns they only take seconds to install. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 Hi Jeremy im interested to hear you’ve overcome the front doors. Are you removing a screw / bolt to introduce the eyes and is this on a relatively new MH den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Den, How about something like the Milenco or Thule cab door locks? https://www.milenco-outlet.co.uk/security/milenco-van-internal-cab-door-locks-twin-pack.html https://www.roseawnings.co.uk/thule-cab-lock/?attribute_vehicle=Ducato%2C Jumper%2C Boxer%2C Transit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 Thanks for that Keith but I guess they have to be screwed into virgin metal and not remove a screw to replace with something ie a eye or something similar. den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 5 hours ago, Den said: ...they’d used old tech just a small disfigurement in the rubber surround of the door handle.... The time-honoured 'screwdriver' method of defeating a Ducato's cab-door lock has been discussed on motorhome forums many times in the past and it's often been suggested that "ProPlate" external metal 'shields be fitted to provide security and visual deterrence. The product is shown here https://www.protectavan.co.uk/proplate and this video describes installation on a 2018 Chausson motorhome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuSotiDLrrA This 2019 O&AL forum thread mainly discussed fitting a lock to the motorhome's OBD port, but Proplates were also mentioned. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/47675-obd-port-lock/ It was advised that "Fiat now fit internal lock shields on the newest Ducatos at the factory" and (on a November 18, 2019 posting by Driventemple in that thread) photos of an additional internal metal bracket were included. However, there seemed to be some doubt whether the purpose of this bracket was to act as an effective anti-theft shield or primarily to strengthen the area of the cab-door where the handle was mounted. Anyway, even if current-model Ducatos have the extra internal bracket, Den's experience indicates that it does not provide reliable protection against the screwdriver ploy. HEOSafe offer internal cabin security locks for Fiat Ducatos https://www.heosolution.de/en/security-tech/security-tech-heosafe/fahrzeugmodell/Fiat Ducato 250 %2F 290.html How much installation work would be involved will depend on the age of the Ducato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 3 hours ago, Den said: Hi Jeremy im interested to hear you’ve overcome the front doors. Are you removing a screw / bolt to introduce the eyes and is this on a relatively new MH den Den hi My van is at the garage so I can't take photos. It is a 2005 reg Benimar on a Ducato base I used stainless "eyes" designed to hang heavy electrical equipment from ceilings. These were screwed onto the cab doors low down towards the rear of the door with stainless screws. The eyes were similar to the picture but slimmer and stainless. The "hook" was a turnbuckle attached to a bolt at the base of the captains chair front seats. Using the turnbuckle (photo) means I can adjust the length so the hook locates easily in the eye. When not in use the turnbuckle slips under the carpet at the side of the seat base. The stainless eye is unobtrusive, at foot level at the rear of the door. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 Den, How about something like a simple door/window alarm stuck onto the door and frame to sound the alarm if the door is forced open? Maybe even use magnets or velcro to make them easier to deploy? Like these for £6 each https://www.argos.co.uk/product/8841807?clickSR=slp:term:door alarm sensor:3:4:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 Thanks Jeremy I’ll look tomorrow to see if I can release any screws etc fit an eye and I have some turnbuckles in the garage. hi Keith i fitted something similar to these supped by the police to our house and my medical mobile workshop after they stole my large Karcher steam jet wash from the garage and 2 weeks later they broke into my van on the drive and stole my Honda generator. Little tinkers. the alarm did go off, but it didn’t stop them. mill be fitting on view small cameras in the front windows and some anchorage eyes. im so annoyed after so many years to have this happen and on a decent site in France. I contacted the site for them to view their camera and they are only there for show. They say. den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 2 minutes ago, Den said: the alarm did go off, but it didn’t stop them. I was thinking more to wake you than scare off the intruders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 35 minutes ago, Keithl said: I was thinking more to wake you than scare off the intruders! Den's got dogs who barked Keith.... that should wake him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 13 minutes ago, laimeduck said: Den's got dogs who barked Keith.... that should wake him? But that was only after the thieves had stolen his wife's gold watch. A simple alarm would set them barking as soon as the door was opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 I’ve been looking at the door and a decent sized screw will take a bracket and I’ll attach these to the seat base as Jeremy mentioned. 🤞🏻should have something made and fitted tomorrow and with the cameras fitted along with the camera stickers on the windows it should deter intruders. sliding door next on the agenda. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Hi Den, all of our 'vans have been pvc's and to secure the sliding door at night I have drilled a 3 or 4mm hole through the floor to and through the bottom arm of the door. It requires some careful measuring as obviously the arm can’t be seen once the door is closed. An old screw driver or any other suitable metal rod dropped through the two holes makes it impossible to open the door more than about 10mm. Simple, cheap, very effective and quick and easy to remove in an emergency. John 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 Hi john thanks for that info. I’ve now found an easy tidy way without drilling holes to secure the front doors. sliding door was my next project to secure and as you say easy to open in an emergency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 On 26/05/2024 at 09:42, Den said: they’d used old tech just a small disfigurement in the rubber surround of the door handle. In which case they are getting through the soft plastic and rubber, so neither the internal plate on later models, or the proplate is going to stop them either is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 On 26/05/2024 at 14:58, Derek Uzzell said: t's often been suggested that "ProPlate" external metal 'shields be fitted to provide security and visual deterrence. The product is shown here https://www.protectavan.co.uk/proplate and this video describes installation on a 2018 Chausson motorhome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuSotiDLrrA This 2019 O&AL forum thread mainly discussed fitting a lock to the motorhome's OBD port, but Proplates were also mentioned. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/47675-obd-port-lock/ It was advised that "Fiat now fit internal lock shields on the newest Ducatos at the factory" and (on a November 18, 2019 posting by Driventemple in that thread) photos of an additional internal metal bracket were included. However, there seemed to be some doubt whether the purpose of this bracket was to act as an effective anti-theft shield or primarily to strengthen the area of the cab-door where the handle was mounted. Anyway, even if current-model Ducatos have the extra internal bracket, Den's experience indicates that it does not provide reliable protection against the screwdriver ploy. So the proplate wouldn't stop them either? It appears the only thing that would stop them getting through the plastic and rubber seal to the linkage to get into Den's van is the linkage shield shown in the You-tube video at around 1.20 just a bit of thin plate bent into a u shape you make yourself - wouldn't matter what it looked like as its not seen Doesn't look as thouugh the guy fitted the linkage shield? A commentor asks him about it but he doesn't reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 17 hours ago, Keithl said: But that was only after the thieves had stolen his wife's gold watch. A simple alarm would set them barking as soon as the door was opened. Thats the problem with all the alarms I have seen - they don't go off until AFTER the door is opened! I guess they would have eyeballed the gold watch before they got the door open, so it only took a second to grab it before they legged it and the alarm wouldn't have stopped them taking it? I fitted micro-switches to that linkage on the door handles so the alarm goes off as soon as the handle is pulled, (whether the door is locked or not) and BEFORE they have forced their way in. It was time consuming - but most of that time was spent dismantling to get access to the inside of the door handle, which you have got to do anyway to fit the proplate (or the linkage shield which looks more important to me) I have overnighted in some fairly high crime areas and the alarm has been activated on several occasions - which can only mean somebody has pulled a door handle because all other alarm triggers are deactivated. Several times over the years it has gone off whilst I was sleeping inside, but by the time I have got up and looked out they are gone, except for once where I saw a guy running away. But I have never been broken into yet so it appears to have done its job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 Hi the watch wasn’t on view it was on the lower shelf in dash board completely out of view. I will be taking the door panel off to see how I can make it more secure. the strap I’m fitting will hopefully stop the tinkers ( stronger language will get the post pulled ) what makes it worse is my wife never takes the watch off in the daytime, but it was quite hot and her fist swelled. Cost a fortune and claiming only puts up insurance rates. I’ll take a look at you -tube. thanks John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 17 hours ago, John52 said: So the proplate wouldn't stop them either? Another ProPlate installation guide is here This is a much more professional and comprehensive video and relates to a 2020-model Ducato. Both of the ProPlate parts (exterior and interior) are shown and fitted. Presumably it is only the Ducato DRIVER'S DOOR that is vulnerable to the 'screwdriver' method of attack? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 19 hours ago, Den said: I’ve now found an easy tidy way without drilling holes to secure the front doors. Would be interested in your "easy way" to secure the front doors. John 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 (edited) 3 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: Another ProPlate installation guide is here This is a much more professional and comprehensive video and relates to a 2020-model Ducato. Both of the ProPlate parts (exterior and interior) are shown and fitted. Presumably it is only the Ducato DRIVER'S DOOR that is vulnerable to the 'screwdriver' method of attack? Good find Derek I am impressed by the amount of time you must spend searching the internet to help others, especially when its no use to you as you don't have a motorhome any more. Yes that video certainly is better. As I said, I am still not sure of the value of fitting the plate as it doesn't stop the door being opened unless you fit the linkage shield as well. Which the previous video apparently didn't. I suppose the plate might deter the thieves if they think you must have fitted the linkage shield as well. In which case I think he would have done better with a bright stainless steel plate rather than that black one which matches the handle (and body colour), as I would want it to stand out in poor light. From memory all the handles are basically the same. So its not only the Drivers Door that is vulnerable to hefty screwdriver that bends the metal surround or whatever will slide under the handle through the rubber seal, and some suppliers list proplate for each door. Certainly the you tube video I saw, taken from someone's home cctv which showed their van in the street, showed the thieves open the X2/50 locked back doors with a screwdriver in about the time it takes me to open them with the key! (I suppose with a van they are going to be more interested in whats in the back than whats in the cab.) So I cut a bike lock U bolt in half and put it through both back doors as a door bolt. If I had known what I know now when I fitted the micro-switches on the door handles I would have made up a bit of plate as a linkage shield whilst I had got the door cards off. But I won't bother with the proplate. Especially now I have the microswitches activating the alarm when the handle is pulled. Edited May 28 by John52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Hi John I removed one of the screws in the door panel and fitted an eye bolt and then removed a screw from the seat base and fitted an alloy plate. I then cut some quality nylon ratchet material and took this to the local shoe repairer sawing it to spring clip works really well and now I’ve seen the video that Derek found I’ll be ordering these for all the doors. I’m thinking preventative measures are better than more damage. Den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 Thank you Derek it’s certainly a worth while project and I’ll be ordering some today. not sure if all doors need them or just the front doors. im guessing 4 required. den Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 1 hour ago, Den said: Hi John I removed one of the screws in the door panel and fitted an eye bolt.... Just a rivnut in very thin metal as I recall. Sorry, but I can't imagine that withstanding a good tug by someone who doesn't care about damage. If you could get to the other side and put a nut and big flat washer on the eyebolt that might do? I think the shield for the linkage inside the door would have stopped them, but probably not the plate. I'd have linkage shields myself if I hadn't already got the handles alarmed, the bolt through the back doors where I sleep, and a secret switch on the immobiliser. I can see no reason why they can't open all your door handles the same way they did your drivers door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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