arthur49 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Hoping @Alanb picks this up. CBE Distribution Unit DS520AN - multi connector 25 connects to the PC380 Control Unit. Problem - PC380 does not power up I've checked all fuses on DS520AN but all OK and there is 12v plus at +B2 so main fuse from batteries is OK The 12v supply to PC380 must come from one of the 16 pins in multiconnector but which one? Hoping you can help Alan - do you have a wiring diagram of multiconnector as manual in link below is silent! https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/user/downloads/CBE-PC380KIT-instruction-manual.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 ............. also tried disconnecting power, leave a few mins, reconnect power and .... nothing! Then pressed power on and Prog button together, held for 10 secs, release ..... nothing! Repeated above and after 10 secs pressed twilight button as well .... nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Hi Has your habitation battery/ batteries been allowed to discharge fully over a period of time? Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 (edited) 33 minutes ago, onecal said: Hi Has your habitation battery/ batteries been allowed to discharge fully over a period of time? Regards No, but hab batteries were disconnected for 3 or 4 days to permit solar repair .......... Edited July 17 by arthur49 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 3 minutes ago, arthur49 said: No, but hab batteries were disconnected for 3 or 4 days to permit solar repair .......... Was the solar charge controller and panel(s) ever connected without the battery being connected? This may have resulted in an over voltage situation ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 8 minutes ago, Keithl said: Was the solar charge controller and panel(s) ever connected without the battery being connected? This may have resulted in an over voltage situation ??? No Keith. Solar ALWAYS disconnected before disconnecting battery ........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Hi Maybe try a reset a few times, ( Hold the power on and Prog button together, for 10 secs, release, repeat and after 10 secs press twilight button as well) . Have you heard a very faint buzz from the panel on trying same ? Did you do the repair to the solar panels yourself? Regards 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 6 hours ago, onecal said: Hi Maybe try a reset a few times ,( Hold the power on and Prog button together, for 10 secs, release Repeat and after 10 secs press twilight button as well) . Have you heard a very faint buzz from the panel on trying same ? Did you do the repair to the solar panels yourself? Regards Will try that. If it doesn't work its off to a pro. No buzz heard from the panel. The solar repair was done by myself - simply replaced dead panel with new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 This 2023 forum thread discussed a 'dead' PC-380 control panel. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/61338-cbe-pc380-bs-11380-inoperative/ In that instance onecal's advice (provided then and now) successfully revived the panel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Hi Simple things first, Re trace your steps , ensure you have also not disconnected anything and all connections are good and correct . You asked which connection is for the control panel, please find attached 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 51 minutes ago, onecal said: Hi Simple things first, Re trace your steps , ensure you have also not disconnected anything and all connections are good and correct . You asked which connection is for the control panel, please find attached All connections good. I'm not going to fiddle any more so I'm off to find a Wildax/CBE expert. Thank you for help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 Just thought I'd share a photo here which I found on Wildax Enthusiasts FB page. In this situation the buzzing sound which @onecal referred to was present. The solution was to cut off the capacitor shown at the red arrow. This solved the problem, the panel started up, and the only downside was time had to be reset every time the panel was switched off which is not an issue for us! But my panel isn't buzzing ...........😔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Hi Arthur, I have not replied previously, as I have been busy with other matters, and as do not have a pin allocation for for the 16 way connector. A wire / function count is as far as curiosity has taken me. Not much use until I can allocate functions to pins. However the photo of the capacitor started a chain of thought. To me the capacitor may infact be a twin cell NiMh battery encapsulated in a plastic shroud. If a capacitor it should have a capacity of say 3,3F (Farads) with a voltage rating as well. Working voltage will be 5.0V or perhaps less. If the object is a battery I would expect it to be marked with voltage say 2,4V, and capacity in mAhr. Which of the two possibilities is it? My reason for asking is that I have had problems in the past with backup batteries in heating programmers, and time switches failing due to faulty backup batteries. Solution with programmers was to fit new batteries. Significantly when the switches had to be replaced due to a electricity supply surge damage, the equivalent units of the same make used lithium CR2032 cells instead. I have also read of the backup battery on CBE PCxxx units being replaced with a larger externally mounted battery, due to inability to source an item of the same dimensions of the original. The collapse of the backup battery could conceivably cause the unit to fail to start up, by holding a supply rail at too low a voltage. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) Hi Next move would be to check as Alan has pointed out is the backup battery as marked in the photo if you are competent and wish to try it . It has been the cause of many a blank screen on many an occasions when disconnected from it's power source for a period of time, but alas not always the remedy , but surely worth a try first Regards Edited July 18 by onecal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 @onecal @Alanb Thanks you two in particular I persevered and decided to cut out the (possibly?) offending capacitor/battery - there are no markings at all on it. Guess what? Its working again minus the offending item. Thank you .................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 @arthur49, I am pleased to read of your success. You say no markings, but please indulge my curiosity. There appears to be a marking on the blue plastic sleeve, at about 2 o' clock in your photo. Perhaps a magnifying glass is required, but I am thinking 0.33F, which would indicate a capacitor. If your PC380 is swutched off without the backup supply device, be it capacitor, or battery, you will as you quoted above lose clock time setting as a minimum. Voltage, current, and temperature calibration settings may also be affected. I would be interested to learn if this is observed. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 Your eyesight is better than mine Alan. Got out my wife's magnifier and you are correct. 3.3F is all I could read. So its a capacitor not a twin/single battery. I'll keep an eye on calibration settings and let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer634 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Definitely a battery https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VARTA-MEMPAC-3-V15H-3-6V-15MA-BACK-UP-BATTERY-fd1c4-/290549748924 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 @Alanb @onecal My wife and I have made valiant efforts using a magnifier to read the markings - it is a capacitor with ratings 5.5v and 0.33F. There is a maker's name which appears to be "Power???" This would appear to be an equivalent but I've no intention of replacing it! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234706044595 I've done some checks today so what functionality have I lost without the capacitor if control panel is switched off then on again? Accuracy of 1. clock 2. battery voltage 3. battery current in/out None of these bother me as I never look at them anyway. I have a Victron shunt which gives 2. and 3 accurately. Hope this may be useful to others who may encounter this problem, and thanks again to Alanb and onecal (Brendan?). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Arthur, Many thanks for taking the time to make a close examination, and bring some closure to the investigation. For info, internal and external temperature readings may also be affected, if you have previously calibrated them against a separate thermometer. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 17/07/2024 at 22:06, arthur49 said: No, but hab batteries were disconnected for 3 or 4 days to permit solar repair .......... And this was the reason for the failure! 3 or 4 days with no power caused the capacitor to discharge below the level it could recover from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 2 hours ago, Keithl said: And this was the reason for the failure! 3 or 4 days with no power caused the capacitor to discharge below the level it could recover from. Beyond dispute Keith ............ But it does suggest that no power to the Control Panel for such a relatively short period resulting in a capacitor failure is pretty c@@@ design .......................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 minute ago, arthur49 said: Beyond dispute Keith ............ But it does suggest that no power to the Control Panel for such a relatively short period resulting in a capacitor failure is pretty c@@@ design .......................... Especially on a five year old unit!!! Have you contacted CBE or Wildax to see what they have to say about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthur49 Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 Not contacted CBE or Wildax, just want to get on with my life now. Its been a great van - a few teething issues at outset - but never let us down until now. I have put a detailed report of the issue and resolution for me on "Fun" - this is what I feel Forums are really for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Link to the relevant MHFun forum thread https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/cbe-pc380-control-unit-problem-pc380-does-not-power-up-distribution-unit-ds520an.306237/ There is plenty of on-line stuff about the projected lifespan of supercapacitors (I've seen "two decades" suggested) but catastrophic failure can happen and the capacitor on the PC-380's circuit-board is not an expensive component. Presumably, even when the capacitor is allowed to fully discharge, it should recharge satisfactorily (or scores of motorhome owners would be complaining) and Arthur's problem is rare. It's a pity that the component is not more easily replaceable (ie. plugged in, not soldered) but there you go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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