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No ovens!!!
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userBrian Kirby
Posted: 20 May 2007 10:12 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 
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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Thai Bry - 2007-05-19 8:50 PM Brian Isn't this what I said at the 1st response posted. Don't want to be rude Thai

Not rude, and its not quite what you said, though similar.  However, you didn't mention Hobby, which I thought was what Sandy really wanted to know.



Edited by Brian Kirby 2007-05-20 10:12 PM
userpeter
Posted: 20 May 2007 10:59 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


caraprof - 2007-05-19 12:32 PM

I find this discussion to be a little bit silly. It must be better to have an oven than not have one! If you've got one you have the opportunity to use it occasionally but if you haven't got one then you can never use it.

It's a bit like having an on-board shower. You may think that you'll always use the site's facilities but one day circumstances may make you very grateful that you can have a quick shower in your own 'van.

What is quite amusing is that the people whose 'vans save space by not having an oven seem to be carrying bulky barbeque-type appliances and even mini-ovens in the wardrobe in case it's raining!

I suspect that for those who don't have an oven their argument is more about justifying their choice, rather than the practicalities and advantages of having one in their 'vans.
Just like you trying to justify having an oven. Each to his own. so don't even think about trying to impose yoiur views on others. As it's obvious that you are a narrow minded bully who looks down on anybody that doesn't share your views. So there! chew on that.
usermichele
Posted: 20 May 2007 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


Sorry rotf
usercaraprof
Posted: 20 May 2007 11:13 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


peter - 2007-05-20 10:59 PM

caraprof - 2007-05-19 12:32 PM

I find this discussion to be a little bit silly. It must be better to have an oven than not have one! If you've got one you have the opportunity to use it occasionally but if you haven't got one then you can never use it.

It's a bit like having an on-board shower. You may think that you'll always use the site's facilities but one day circumstances may make you very grateful that you can have a quick shower in your own 'van.

What is quite amusing is that the people whose 'vans save space by not having an oven seem to be carrying bulky barbeque-type appliances and even mini-ovens in the wardrobe in case it's raining!

I suspect that for those who don't have an oven their argument is more about justifying their choice, rather than the practicalities and advantages of having one in their 'vans.
Just like you trying to justify having an oven. Each to his own. so don't even think about trying to impose yoiur views on others. As it's obvious that you are a narrow minded bully who looks down on anybody that doesn't share your views. So there! chew on that.


Oh dear, I think I must have struck a nerve here!
userpeter
Posted: 20 May 2007 11:21 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


How's that then?
usercaraprof
Posted: 21 May 2007 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


peter - 2007-05-20 11:21 PM

How's that then?


Because your reaction was totally over the top! You go the route of all people who haven't actually got an argument and resort to personal insults.

All I said is that it must be better to have an oven than not have one as at least you can use it if really necessary. If you haven't one, you cannot use it, full stop! When you sell your 'van I can guarantee that no one will refuse to buy it because it's got an oven but they may very well refuse to buy it because it hasn't! I simply gave my opinion on why I think that it is better to have an oven. I have never denied you your right to think otherwise. I cannot understand why, if someone tries to debate properly, someone else who doesn't agree with them accuses them of being a bully, or of wishing to stifle other's views. Where did that happen?

If there was any bullying here it was in your intemperate and rude response to my very fair reasoning.

As for imposing one's views on others, you were the dogmatic one and I'll now remind others of your comment, which was:

Peter wrote:
Who needs an oven? we hardly ever use it at home never mind the M/H. We use our Cadac grill a lot for cooking all meat and stir fries. We do have a mini oven which is stored in the wardrobe for when it's too cold or wet to cook outside. The Continentals cook outside a lot, so don't need a full oven. What woman wants to mess about with a full roast dinner when on holiday, My wife sure wouldn't.
-----


If there was ever a dogmatic answer from someone who thinks that he is right and others are wrong, it's that one.

I'll let our other members decide who's the real bully here! And the rampant sexist as well!

And finally, and this is the bit that I'm really going to enjoy, you say in your opening remark; "Who needs an oven?"

Well, obviously, you do old boy, which is why you've gone to the trouble, expense and inconvenience of having a portable mini-oven, which you store in your wardrobe, where it presumably takes up space that could be occupied by shoes, walking boots or a dozen other items!

I rest my case!
usermichele
Posted: 21 May 2007 8:56 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Tee Hee..............
userRandonneur
Posted: 21 May 2007 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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it is starting all over again
usercaraprof
Posted: 21 May 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


Randonneur - 2007-05-21 9:25 AM

it is starting all over again


It may well be, but please note who started it. It wasn't me who wrote an intemperate and rude response.
userRandonneur
Posted: 21 May 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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caraprof - 2007-05-21 11:04 AM

Randonneur - 2007-05-21 9:25 AM

it is starting all over again


It may well be, but please note who started it. It wasn't me who wrote an intemperate and rude response.


Didn't say it was.
userderek500
Posted: 21 May 2007 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Now I know why my Italian MH has an oven. It must be for all the pizzas and foccacia they cook in Italy.
userderek500
Posted: 21 May 2007 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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derek500 - 2007-05-21 11:58 AM

Now I know why my Italian MH has an oven. It must be for all the pizzas, lasagne, cannelloni and foccacia etc. they cook in Italy.
usermichele
Posted: 21 May 2007 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


I think pete is just having a joke really ... I,m sure he is

yeah otherwise he would of said argument section
userpeter
Posted: 21 May 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


Just flushing out Frank, alias Caraprof. His response was typical Frank Wilkinson. Frankly I couldn't give a damn if someone has or does not have an oven. We don't need one, which is why we bought the van we did. Our choice. As for the mini oven, We can leave it at home if we wish. It is only a 6 Mtr van so we need all the cupboard space we can get.
As for trying to impose their opinions on others I stand by my former opinion and I quote The original remark by Caraprof.
" I find this discussion to be a little bit silly. It must be better to have an oven than not have one! If you've got one you have the opportunity to use it occasionally but if you haven't got one then you can never use it".


Edited by peter 2007-05-22 12:03 AM
userTomo
Posted: 22 May 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 
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Hi All, Tomos wife here,
We have had vans with and without and although I would probably prefer to have an oven its really great not having one as Tomo does the bbq cooking, which means I can relax after I've cooked the salad and just wait for the meat to arrive. For those that are looking for something easy to use I can thoroughly recommend the George Foreman gas bbq. Its simple enough for Tomo to cook not burn my steak. Its making my mouth water I think I'll go and eat. But I must add that while I was looking at new vans many of them had ovens which were either floor level or ceiling height. I have had experience of trying to get food out of ceiling ones had to resort to either a stool to stand on or get Tomo. Equally I looked at one van that the oven was so low and also access was difficult due to the enormous fixed table. These things would end up really annoying me.
usermichele
Posted: 22 May 2007 7:53 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


Well as we have one we dont use it BUT if we didn't have one we would want it so there for we have one just to look at
userhowie
Posted: 22 May 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Dunnshargin


peter - 2007-05-17 11:35 PM

Who needs an oven? we hardly ever use it at home never mind the M/H. We use our Cadac grill a lot for cooking all meat and stir fries. We do have a mini oven which is stored in the wardrobe for when it's too cold or wet to cook outside. The Continentals cook outside a lot, so don't need a full oven. What woman wants to mess about with a full roast dinner when on holiday, My wife sure wouldn't.
That sounds famliar Peter. The wife,s favorite saying is "its a holiday for both of us you know" which is fair enough, but having a oven in the van does,nt bother me one way or the other. Apart from providing extra storage it should make things easier when you trade the van in as it seems ovens are a must for a lot of people.
usermichele
Posted: 22 May 2007 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


Except you pete
userpeter
Posted: 22 May 2007 11:38 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


And those that like to cook outdoors like the Continentals Michele. I do the cooking and my wife does the salad. So I'm not sexist after all. However this fixation with ovens seems to be a particularly British thing. With the modern gas BBQ's you can do more or less anything on them from grilling to stir fries, I love cooking on a BBQ it always seems to taste much better, to us anyway. I don't think it makes it any less easy to sell a van as many Rapidos don't have one, and we bought ours. We would have bought it wih or without as we liked the layout and you relax in it far more than you cook.

Edited by peter 2007-05-22 11:39 PM
userderek500
Posted: 23 May 2007 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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peter - 2007-05-23 12:38 AM

And those that like to cook outdoors like the Continentals


Where I live in Spain (Valencia), not where the Brits live, the only day of the week the Spaniards cook outside is Sunday. That's paella day here.

Most houses, like ours have an 'outside' kitchen known as a 'paellero', built solely for this purpose.

In the towns where the majority live in apartments, the parks/green spaces have rows of giant communal BBQs which get packed on Sundays.

The rest of the week the women are doing there normal cooking indoors in the kitchen. They do eat outside though if the weather's OK.

It always makes me laugh when I watch those awful 'Living in the Sun'/'Place in the Sun' type programmes when the kitchens are always dismissed with the comment 'you don't a kitchen here, everybody does all their cooking outside'

Perhaps it's different in other parts of Europe?
userCliveH
Posted: 23 May 2007 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 
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Sounds wonderful Derek

I do like the Spanish lifestyle. My favourite part of Spain is "Green Spain" in the North - Pecos du Europa - Out & About did a great review of the area a year or so ago.

As for Ovens!!!!!!!!!!!!

From what I have read - I suggest the best thing Caraprof/Frank could do would be to stick his head in one!

Do we really need such a childish wind-up merchant on what is an excellent Forum.

We use a variety depending on time of year length of stay etc.

We have a George Forman grill used outside when we have hook-up and a small gas BBG for when we don't. We use these because cooking outside in good weather is an absolute delight.

When it rains - we use the oven - and with the rain on the roof and the prospect of a good meal - that is excellent in its own way as well.

Thats what we do but no way do I think that everyone else should do the same or think the same as us!

Just do what you want and do not judge others Frank/Caraprof.


usercaraprof
Posted: 23 May 2007 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


Some of you people, like CliveH above, are offensive and pathetic! There was a discussion about whether or not it's advantageous to have an oven. My entire point is that it must be better to have an oven, simply because if you have one you can use it, albeit occasionally. If you haven't got one, then you can never use it!

When you come to sell your 'van fewer people will be interested because it hasn't got an oven. Yes, you may well sell it, but there is less chance. I for one will not buy a 'van that doesn't have an oven. To anyone with average intelligence, this must be obvious. It doesn't mean that you have to buy a 'van with an oven and I shouldn't have to keep saying that, but for God's sake, stop trying to convince us all that it's better not to have something than to have it!

What I find amusing is the constant justification for the choice that the oven-less have made, and after all their flawed reasoning, they admit to having bought portable mini-ovens, which they stack in their wardrobes!

But what I find really offensive though is the constant accusation that, if as I do, you put up a logical argument, you are automatically guilty of imposing your will on others.

Where have I ever denied anyone their right to do anything? If you want an oven-less 'van, fine, go out and buy one. I'm a right of centre Tory and one of my strongest beliefs is in individual freedom and choice, but if there's a discussion about the merits or otherwise of having an oven, or a shower or anything else, why should I be pilloried by some of the real fascists on this site, like CliveH above, simply for putting up a good argument?

Finally, why are people like Peter allowed to say things like "Who needs an oven" and try to convince us all that we shouldn't have one, but when all I do is put up a debate about the relative merits of why it's better to have one I'm the one accused by some idiot of trying to impose my will on others.

My advice to anyone wishing to post on this site is this: Don't whatever you do put up a logical and convincing argument for anything because this forum has lots of members who, if they cannot win a debate by logic and reason, will immediately revert to the old 'You're tring to impose your views on us' argument, so often used by those who have no real answer.

So come on all you clever people, try to convince us why it's better to have our 'vans without ovens, or showers, or 'fridges maybe, who really needs them?





Edited by caraprof 2007-05-23 2:42 PM
usermichele
Posted: 23 May 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


I,m not convincing anyone anything ....

I have an oven only used once thats up to us....
if you dont have one thats up to you ....


Either way do as you want, your life not mine

Just dont come to me when you want sunday lunch !

I dont use it haha....

I stare at it hoping that one day I might find the need for it ...but i wouldn't be without it WHY....................................................................................................................











. It warms up the van lovely
userCliveH
Posted: 23 May 2007 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 
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I think it better Michelle if we just left the poor thing to rant alone.
userhowie
Posted: 23 May 2007 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Dunnshargin


To forgive is devine. Having a oven is optional. We must conclude that having a oven on board is no problem. Its there for those that wish to use them and can be put to other uses for those that don,t. Just curious, but i,ve never heard of anyone removing a oven or refusing to buy a van that has one either.
usercaraprof
Posted: 23 May 2007 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


CliveH - 2007-05-23 5:43 PM

I think it better Michelle if we just left the poor thing to rant alone.


I like a reasonable debate. Once again you prove your inadequacy to address the argument and you resort to sly insults. Please look at the entire post. Read my contribution then read Peter's ill-tempered response to it. I did not insult or traduce anyone so why are you having a go at me?

Why should you let any previous spat that we may or may not have had make you attack me in this incredibly unfair manner, when others have been far more insulting and denigrating in their posts, including you I might add?

For once in your sad and unintelligent little life, try to reply to my debate with reasoned argument and not slimy insults that add nothing to the thread.

If you know me as well as you claim to do you will be well aware that I don't lie down and let idiots like you kick me without due reason, so here's the challenge, tell us what you think about 'vans with or without ovens. Do you think that it's better to have an oven or not?

Anyone is free to choose a 'van without an oven if that's what they really want, but if they try to argue that it's not necessary to have an oven, am I and others not free to argue that we think that they are wrong?

That's what this thread should be about, not about people like you having insulting pops at me for simply contributing to the debate.


userCliveH
Posted: 23 May 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 
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Reasoned debate? – labelling people fascist and stating that they have “sad little lives”

On Ovens??????

Are you mad?

I am simply saying that for anyone to get so worked up over what other people do and do not do and then start labelling people fascist indicates to me that all is not well in your life. Similarly labelling people as having "sad little lives" when most of us seem well adjusted and up for a laugh! indicates problems within your domain not mine.

Whatever you feel about me or any other person on here and however you berate us - being obnoxious to others is not going to solve a problem you have.

I feel sorry for you and wish you well Caraprof/Frank.

But would ask that you do not use such offensive language to me again.

I am asking you politely man to man.

Please respect that


usermichele
Posted: 23 May 2007 8:18 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


Can't we have nice sensible debates over oven or no oven without being subjected to this ?..its it far nicer to get on with each other than fall out?

To forgive is a strength that we all must find within ourself including me.

if I can find it I ,m sure others can.

The world wouldn't go round if we all thought the same would it ?
think about other things that could happen to you in a day you could be ill life threatning ..Surely we should be thankful we are here ..

Perhaps we all need a warning well some! (I dont speak for everyone but you all get the gist ). Whats the point in all this its really stupid ..

wouldn't it be kinder for everyone to be friends and forgive differences..

That way the world go's round.. Far nicer to smile and be friends than fall out over a bloody OVEN of all things....

Do something nice TODAY make friends...
usercaraprof
Posted: 23 May 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


CliveH - 2007-05-23 7:51 PM


Reasoned debate? – labelling people fascist and stating that they have “sad little lives”

On Ovens??????

Are you mad?

I am simply saying that for anyone to get so worked up over what other people do and do not do and then start labelling people fascist indicates to me that all is not well in your life. Similarly labelling people as having "sad little lives" when most of us seem well adjusted and up for a laugh! indicates problems within your domain not mine.

Whatever you feel about me or any other person on here and however you berate us - being obnoxious to others is not going to solve a problem you have.

I feel sorry for you and wish you well Caraprof/Frank.

But would ask that you do not use such offensive language to me again.

I am asking you politely man to man.

Please respect that




You Bl**dy hypocrite! Can I remind everyone that I'd had made no mention of you but you started insulting me and suggesting that I put my head in an oven.

I don't respect you. You're a hypocrite who thinks that he can make denigrating remarks about me (see both of your previous posts) but when I hit back you come up with this nauseating nonsense.

A plague on you. If anyone is owed an apology it's me for your totally unprovoked attacks.
usermichele
Posted: 23 May 2007 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: No ovens!!!
 


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Location: Rapido ..ask him what size


OK EVERYONE .........................THIS IS NOW THE THREAD OF ARGUMENTS ONLY I THINK WE SHOUDL ALL STAY OUT OF IT ......If PEOPLE DONT MIND!

NO I,M NOT THE BOSS ... IF PEOPLE FOR WHAT EVER REASON WANT TO HAVE A GO AT EACH OTHER THEN IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED AT NO INCONVIENCE TO OTHERS AND NOT HIDDEN PROVIDING NO BAD LANGUAGE ........I DO HOPE EVERYONE AGREES
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