No ovens!!!

[CliveH]

Sounds wonderful Derek

 

I do like the Spanish lifestyle. My favourite part of Spain is "Green Spain" in the North - Pecos du Europa - Out & About did a great review of the area a year or so ago.

 

As for Ovens!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

From what I have read - I suggest the best thing Caraprof/Frank could do would be to stick his head in one!

 

Do we really need such a childish wind-up merchant on what is an excellent Forum.

 

We use a variety depending on time of year length of stay etc.

 

We have a George Forman grill used outside when we have hook-up and a small gas BBG for when we don't. We use these because cooking outside in good weather is an absolute delight.

 

When it rains - we use the oven - and with the rain on the roof and the prospect of a good meal - that is excellent in its own way as well.

 

Thats what we do but no way do I think that everyone else should do the same or think the same as us!

 

Just do what you want and do not judge others Frank/Caraprof.

 

 

:-S

[Guest caraprof]

Some of you people, like CliveH above, are offensive and pathetic! There was a discussion about whether or not it's advantageous to have an oven. My entire point is that it must be better to have an oven, simply because if you have one you can use it, albeit occasionally. If you haven't got one, then you can never use it!

 

When you come to sell your 'van fewer people will be interested because it hasn't got an oven. Yes, you may well sell it, but there is less chance. I for one will not buy a 'van that doesn't have an oven. To anyone with average intelligence, this must be obvious. It doesn't mean that you have to buy a 'van with an oven and I shouldn't have to keep saying that, but for God's sake, stop trying to convince us all that it's better not to have something than to have it!

 

What I find amusing is the constant justification for the choice that the oven-less have made, and after all their flawed reasoning, they admit to having bought portable mini-ovens, which they stack in their wardrobes!

 

But what I find really offensive though is the constant accusation that, if as I do, you put up a logical argument, you are automatically guilty of imposing your will on others.

 

Where have I ever denied anyone their right to do anything? If you want an oven-less 'van, fine, go out and buy one. I'm a right of centre Tory and one of my strongest beliefs is in individual freedom and choice, but if there's a discussion about the merits or otherwise of having an oven, or a shower or anything else, why should I be pilloried by some of the real fascists on this site, like CliveH above, simply for putting up a good argument?

 

Finally, why are people like Peter allowed to say things like "Who needs an oven" and try to convince us all that we shouldn't have one, but when all I do is put up a debate about the relative merits of why it's better to have one I'm the one accused by some idiot of trying to impose my will on others.

 

My advice to anyone wishing to post on this site is this: Don't whatever you do put up a logical and convincing argument for anything because this forum has lots of members who, if they cannot win a debate by logic and reason, will immediately revert to the old 'You're tring to impose your views on us' argument, so often used by those who have no real answer.

 

So come on all you clever people, try to convince us why it's better to have our 'vans without ovens, or showers, or 'fridges maybe, who really needs them?

 

 

 

 

[michele]

I,m not convincing anyone anything ....

 

I have an oven only used once thats up to us....

if you dont have one thats up to you ....

 

 

Either way do as you want, your life not mine :D

 

Just dont come to me when you want sunday lunch !

 

I dont use it haha.... :D

 

I stare at it hoping that one day I might find the need for it ...but i wouldn't be without it WHY....................................................................................................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. It warms up the van lovely ;-)

[CliveH]

I think it better Michelle if we just left the poor thing to rant alone. B-)

[howie]

To forgive is devine. Having a oven is optional. We must conclude that having a oven on board is no problem. Its there for those that wish to use them and can be put to other uses for those that don,t. Just curious, but i,ve never heard of anyone removing a oven or refusing to buy a van that has one either.

[Guest caraprof]

CliveH - 2007-05-23 5:43 PM

 

I think it better Michelle if we just left the poor thing to rant alone. B-)

 

I like a reasonable debate. Once again you prove your inadequacy to address the argument and you resort to sly insults. Please look at the entire post. Read my contribution then read Peter's ill-tempered response to it. I did not insult or traduce anyone so why are you having a go at me?

 

Why should you let any previous spat that we may or may not have had make you attack me in this incredibly unfair manner, when others have been far more insulting and denigrating in their posts, including you I might add?

 

For once in your sad and unintelligent little life, try to reply to my debate with reasoned argument and not slimy insults that add nothing to the thread.

 

If you know me as well as you claim to do you will be well aware that I don't lie down and let idiots like you kick me without due reason, so here's the challenge, tell us what you think about 'vans with or without ovens. Do you think that it's better to have an oven or not?

 

Anyone is free to choose a 'van without an oven if that's what they really want, but if they try to argue that it's not necessary to have an oven, am I and others not free to argue that we think that they are wrong?

 

That's what this thread should be about, not about people like you having insulting pops at me for simply contributing to the debate.

 

 

 

[CliveH]

 

Reasoned debate? – labelling people fascist and stating that they have “sad little lives”

 

On Ovens??????

 

Are you mad?

 

I am simply saying that for anyone to get so worked up over what other people do and do not do and then start labelling people fascist indicates to me that all is not well in your life. Similarly labelling people as having "sad little lives" when most of us seem well adjusted and up for a laugh! indicates problems within your domain not mine.

 

Whatever you feel about me or any other person on here and however you berate us - being obnoxious to others is not going to solve a problem you have.

 

I feel sorry for you and wish you well Caraprof/Frank.

 

But would ask that you do not use such offensive language to me again.

 

I am asking you politely man to man.

 

Please respect that

 

 

:-S

[michele]

Can't we have nice sensible debates over oven or no oven without being subjected to this ?..its it far nicer to get on with each other than fall out?

 

To forgive is a strength that we all must find within ourself including me.

 

if I can find it I ,m sure others can.

 

The world wouldn't go round if we all thought the same would it ?

think about other things that could happen to you in a day you could be ill life threatning ..Surely we should be thankful we are here ..

 

Perhaps we all need a warning well some! (I dont speak for everyone but you all get the gist ). Whats the point in all this its really stupid ..

 

wouldn't it be kinder for everyone to be friends and forgive differences..

 

That way the world go's round.. Far nicer to smile and be friends than fall out over a bloody OVEN of all things....

 

Do something nice TODAY make friends... ;-)

[Guest caraprof]

CliveH - 2007-05-23 7:51 PM

 

 

Reasoned debate? – labelling people fascist and stating that they have “sad little lives”

 

On Ovens??????

 

Are you mad?

 

I am simply saying that for anyone to get so worked up over what other people do and do not do and then start labelling people fascist indicates to me that all is not well in your life. Similarly labelling people as having "sad little lives" when most of us seem well adjusted and up for a laugh! indicates problems within your domain not mine.

 

Whatever you feel about me or any other person on here and however you berate us - being obnoxious to others is not going to solve a problem you have.

 

I feel sorry for you and wish you well Caraprof/Frank.

 

But would ask that you do not use such offensive language to me again.

 

I am asking you politely man to man.

 

Please respect that

 

 

:-S

 

You Bl**dy hypocrite! Can I remind everyone that I'd had made no mention of you but you started insulting me and suggesting that I put my head in an oven.

 

I don't respect you. You're a hypocrite who thinks that he can make denigrating remarks about me (see both of your previous posts) but when I hit back you come up with this nauseating nonsense.

 

A plague on you. If anyone is owed an apology it's me for your totally unprovoked attacks.

[michele]

OK EVERYONE .........................THIS IS NOW THE THREAD OF ARGUMENTS ONLY I THINK WE SHOUDL ALL STAY OUT OF IT ......If PEOPLE DONT MIND!

 

NO I,M NOT THE BOSS ... IF PEOPLE FOR WHAT EVER REASON WANT TO HAVE A GO AT EACH OTHER THEN IT SHOULD BE ALLOWED AT NO INCONVIENCE TO OTHERS AND NOT HIDDEN PROVIDING NO BAD LANGUAGE ........I DO HOPE EVERYONE AGREES

[Guest caraprof]

Thank you Michele, I'm happy to butt out. I would just ask in future that people stop having an unprovoked go at me. Just because I like to debate there is no reason why, if you don't agree with me, that you should insult me because of imagined slights in the past.

 

If you have a go at me, you can expect a vigorous response, but please, by all means debate strongly with me as long as it's on the actual subject and not about how, because I want to express a contrary opinion, that I somehow wish to deny you yours, which I never have and never will.

 

 

[michele]

Frank ,

I did not mean for you to butt out !

 

Actually quite the contuary ? probably spelt wrong Sorry ..

 

If you feel you have it right then by all means defend yourself.

However if Clive feels he has it right he has to defend himself also.

 

So if the kind people Butt out we will all sit back & watch this space and we can judge for ourself ....Afterall we are supposed to be adults on here.

 

So you & Clive will either sort it!, or not one way or the other it will be put to bed... Let the battle commence 8-)

[twooks]

I think Michele's point was valid, and was not a personal attack on anyone -

this thread has degenerated into a slanging match - like so many others have done.

It gives the forum a bad name, reflects poorly on the other users, and is, imo, a complete and absolute bore.

If anyone wants to play in the kindergarten, spit the dummy, take their ball home then by all means do so, just do it off thread - in pms preferably, although this will not give the attention that is so clearly being sought, or in a separate thread where the childish tantrums can be avoided by anyone with a mental and emotional age greater than 2.

 

 

B-)

 

PS Is Sandy still around - or run screaming for cover?

[Guest peter]

Flushed Frank Wilkinson out at last. He has given the game away by the use of one word. That being "traduce" in one of the above threads, He is the only person on here that has ever used it, and many times. So stand up and take a bow Frank. :D

 

As for your accusation that I was advocating that nobody should have an oven. I have stated several times that I don't care one way or the other. I merely asked the question "Who needs an oven" to which anyone could have answered in a rational way. Your'e the one that said it was silly discussing the matter as anyone with any sense would have one. If that's not trying to say that anybody who doesn't have one is stupid, I don't know what is. *-)

[twooks]

Pleeeaaaasssse, pretty please *-)

 

B-)

 

nighty night

[Guest peter]

twooks - 2007-05-23 11:00 PM

 

Pleeeaaaasssse, pretty please *-)

 

B-)

 

nighty night

What do you mean Twooks? Frank hasn't even got warmed up yet. :D

[Guest caraprof]

I just give in! Where did I say that anyone with any sense would have one? What I said was that there is no argument that it is better to have one than not to have one, which is very different. If you have one, you may not use it, but you still have the choice?

 

If you don't have one, you have no choice. The simplest amongst us can understand that!

 

By all means, choose not to have an oven, but please don't then try to convince the rest of us that they are not necessary!

 

They are necessary for some of us. Some of us even go out and buy portable ones!

[twooks]

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 

B-)

[Guest peter]

caraprof - 2007-05-23 11:04 PM

 

They are necessary for some of us. Some of us even go out and buy portable ones!

I reckon your'e jealous of my portable oven Frank. As you keep berrating me for having one. As a matter of fact I originally bought it for my old Caravan for when we were on hookup to save gas. So when we got a MH it seemed a waste to sit it in the garage so sometimes take it with us. If you want one, they are on offer at Lidl's from time to time. If you like I'll P.M you next time it occurrs. :D

[CliveH]

Shame some people never seem to have heard of the good advice:-

 

"When you are already in a hole - stop digging!"

[Guest caraprof]

CliveH - 2007-05-24 6:20 AM

 

Shame some people never seem to have heard of the good advice:-

 

"When you are already in a hole - stop digging!"

 

So why are you, idiot?

[Brian Kirby]

Sad, is it not, that when some folk encounter an opinion that is counter to their own, they are unable to accept it is just that - an opinion. 

Even sadder, is that they then attack the holder of the opinion, rather than engaging with the opinion itself.  The holder bites back, and we're all off again down one of those interminably boring, destructive, uninformative exchanges of actual, and veiled, insults - with teddies flying in all directions.

Come on guys, these exchanges make no useful contribution to anyone else's knowledge - they are just silly, petty, private, argumets, that get pursued in public.  All this does is drive everyone else away, because the volume of the row blots out their attempts at reasoned discussion.  It ends up being about as illuminating as a brawl in a pub, and as unpleasant.  Peace be upon you all, PLEASE.  Now, can I just get back to my pint!

[CliveH]

Brian

 

I agree with all that you say - and I like a pint in peace as well!

 

But I have to admit that my post above re "stop dogging" was very much a test of Caraprof/Franks state of mind.

 

It was not aimed at anyone - indeed it actually made more sense if it was aimed at Peter (it wasn't) - who could have been construed as having dug a whole for himself over the issue of not having an Oven - then going out and buying a portable one!

 

(As if any of us really care?)

 

But was does Craprof do?

 

Takes it as a personal insult.

 

Now from a psychological viewpoint this is interesting in that it indicates that whatever anyone says - Caraprof is going to take umbrage because he wants to.

 

I suggest we just let him get on with it.

 

Sits back and waits for a bucketful of vitriol and bile from our pet grumpy old man!

 

 

Now - Where is my Pint?

 

[Dave Newell]

For goodness sake you lot grow up! Nobody but you (CliveH, Caraprof and Peter) actually gives a damn who started it, you're all guilty of continuing it when all it needs is far all three of you to just GIVE IT A REST!!!!!

 

D.

[CliveH]

That is all very well for you to say Dave - but i came on here having been away for a great w/e in the caravan - used the gas BBG outside and the Oven when it was raining and so I felt I had a valid contribution!

 

My reward?

 

Being called a Fascist by someone who it seems has already been banned for stunningly bad behaviour and obnoxious language and who revels in being childishly obtuse.

 

I am sorry if my robust defence offends you - but as it seems like anything goes on this Forum - I suggest you get used to it!