Tourope Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 I have a Hobby motorhome on a 2016 registered Fiat Ducato engine. It's just been for its 3 year MOT and has failed because a couple of the error warning lights on the Fiat dash cluster, most notably the ABS light, are dimly lit (very dimly I might add) during normal driving. In fact in bright daylight you can't see them but you can when it's dark. I've been told I need a replacement dash cluster (their term not mine) at a cost of £880 . Anyone had similar and if so what did you do, pay up, or what? :$ :-( >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artheytrate Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 cartronix they repair the dash lights with better fittings for £150. https://cartronix.co.uk/ John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Did you get the quote from a Fiat dealer or a local garage? At three years old surely it should be covered by Fiat's warranty? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 My van has had 5 MOT's with faintly illuminated dash lights. My van only had a 2 year warranty, but if it had been an issue on first MOT I would have been prepared to ask the dealer and/or Fiat about a free and/or reduced price fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 The quote was from a Fiat dealer. Their warranty is only 2 years except for paintwork (36 months) and anti-perforation (8 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 Colin, are you saying your van didn't fail its 5 MOTs then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Tourope Problems with dimly illuminated instrument-cluster warning-lights on Fiat Ducato X290 models (built from mid-2014 onwards) have been widely reported and discussed on motorhome forums (example here). https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-Ducato-Cruise-Control-additional-warning-lights/46318/ The Ducato warranty has a 2-year duration and all instrument-clusters exhibiting the ‘dim warning-light’ behaviour within the warranty period have been replaced free of charge. As the fault is so well-known (by Fiat) and so common with earlier Ducato X290s, even though your Hobby’s Fiat warranty may have expired, Fiat may well be prepared to meet the cost of replacement as a goodwill gesture if you ask nicely (particularly if you have had the Ducato serviced by a Fiat Professional agent). (Regarding the MOT-test, it’s going to depend which warning-lights are illuminated. If the ABS light is continuously illuminated (even only dimly) this will lead to a test failure.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Tourope - 2019-02-21 9:16 PM Colin, are you saying your van didn't fail its 5 MOTs then? Passed, but then I'm not sure offhand which lights glow. As Derek says, try Fiat as it's a well known fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 We had this problem just over a year ago, spoke to a local Fiat dealer, who suggested that while Fiat had previously been pretty flexible on out of warranty replacements, in his experience they had become markedly less helpful. In a (then)recent case with a van only just out of warranty, they offered only a very small discount. Obviously, this is hardly a systematic survey, but may be relevant. Our van was then under dealer warranty, but the dealer was happy to pay for a repair by Cartronix, who were very efficient. To be honest, my reckoning was that it in any case I’d prefer a Cartronix repair (which I think advertised lifetime warranty?) than a Fiat replacement, given the frequency with which the latter play up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 The Cartronix service for Ducato is described here https://cartronix.co.uk/product/fiat-ducato-mk3-van-and-motor-home-instrument-cluster-dash-repair/ and contact details are here https://cartronix.co.uk/contact/ Obviously there will be some urgency to get the fault on Tourope’s Hobby motorhome fixed as the vehicle’s 3rd birthday is probably not far away. I’d try Fiat Customer Relations initially - 0800 3428 1111 or 0039 0244412160 (When the problem first showed up on X290s and the instrument-cluster was replaced on an exact like-for-like basis, the replacement clusters regularly failed again. A cluster with a different part-number eventually became available and, when this cluster has been retro-fitted, I’ve yet to read of the issue occurring.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 This problem first appeared on the X250 and the suggestion then was it was caused by damp on the circuit board in the instrument panel. I have had three, free replacements for my 2013 build X250 and the current one seems OK. Those owners who keep the inside of their vans warm by means of a heater, should, if the above is correct, have less of a problem, but I have no statistics to back this up. I have heard of owners taking their instrument panels into their houses for the winter months and this, it is claimed has prevented / cured the problem. Removing the panel on an X250 is easy, but this is not an ideal solution. A new panel or a Cartronix remanufactured one would seem the best way forward for a guaranteed fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 spospe Am I correct in thinking that the free replacement of three defective instrument-clusters was approved by Peugeot not Fiat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRienza Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I had my 2016 Fiat instrument panel replaced under warranty for the slightly glowing warning lamps. No quibble from my dealer who are both Hymer and Fiat professional franchises. It was a well documented recurring problem which gave good leverage for replacement. My van is now 3 years old in January past with 24,000 miles. My airbag warning light and seatbelt warning light both showed faults (bright warning lamps). Since this was a documented fault in an ecu unit I wrote to Fiat citing my previous issues with the instrument panel, a faulty wiper control unit and a defective external air temperature sensor. I have had a free replacement authorised, which is a quite expensive part, although I still need to meet the labour charge but I don’t think this is a long job. I would urge you to make a similar complaint as it will cost you nothing to ask, and if all fails use Cartronix. I am hoping to lay hands on my old airbag ecu as there appears to be a firm called crash data who can do a repair for £60 Davy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Thanks for all the good advice here folks. Have just tried Fiat customer services and they've agreed to look into it, saying someone will get back to me on Monday regarding any 'good will'. Depending on what they come back with I still have the Cartronix option. I'll keep you posted on the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmold Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 It used to only be a problem if cruise control was switched on. If you find it switched on, to get through MOT check if still illuminated when cruise control off, you may get through a retest if that works and then you can get cluster fixed at your convenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-02-22 1:47 PM spospe Am I correct in thinking that the free replacement of three defective instrument-clusters was approved by Peugeot not Fiat? Yes you are quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Tourope - 2019-02-22 2:56 PM Thanks for all the good advice here folks. Have just tried Fiat customer services and they've agreed to look into it, saying someone will get back to me on Monday regarding any 'good will'. Depending on what they come back with I still have the Cartronix option. I'll keep you posted on the outcome. How long has this problem been evident? As your van is now three years old, I assume you must have had at least one service carried out, which should have been within the warranty period. If the problem was evident before that service, did you mention it when booking the service? But, even if not, if the van was serviced by a Fiat professional garage, they should by that time have been well aware of the problem, and have checked whether your instrument panel was affected. I think I'd be a bit miffed if the garage that carried out the service (so IMO should have known of and checked for the defect), was now asking £880 for replacing the panel. At the very least I would hope they would have volunteered to make a warranty claim on your behalf as the problem is so well known. Did they not offer anything constructive at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Hi Brian I made the mistake of letting the Hobby dealer do the 2nd service on the van, as they offered to do it along with the habitation service. They assured me it would use all Fiat compliant components and carry out the service in accordance with the service schedule. However this was not done by a Fiat service centre. So I guess they wouldn't have even checked the dash cluster as it's not part of the service schedule. I can't say definitely how long it has been evident. I certainly noticed last autumn when we were away in the van but as the lights were so dim I thought nothing more of it. And I certainly wasn't aware of the MOT requirements for such. The dealer who did the MOT this week was a Fiat service centre, but as I said they did not carry out the 2nd service which was done last year. They did though suggest, unofficially, I contact Fiat and see if they were prepared to offer some good will towards the cost of a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted February 22, 2019 Author Share Posted February 22, 2019 Hi Paulmold Pretty sure the cruise control switch is off because the light for that does come on fully when it's on. And just to be sure I've checked and it's off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 My X290 Ducato (April 2015 UK-registered) had an ignition-switch-related safety-recall carried out by a Fiat Professional (FP) agent a year later. At that time problems with the instrument-cluster were well-known and I happened to mention to the FP service manager that my Ducato’s cluster was taking a while to shut down completely after the vehicle’s ignition was turned off. The cluster was checked and, sure enough, some of the warning-lights could be seen glowing very faintly. The service manager advised that the instrument-cluster be changed (under warranty) but as I was about to take the motorhome abroad I decided to delay the work until I returned to the UK. “The problem can only get worse” warned the service manager and, while driving to the ferry at Portsmouth, the cruise-control green symbol illuminated spontaneously despite cruise not having been selected. This was a quite common symptom of the instrument-cluster problem, but there was no certainty that it would happen when other warning lights were dimly lit, nor was there any certainty which of the warning lights would be dimly illuminated or which not. (It perhaps needs emphasising that the cruise-control light illuminating when cruise has not been selected should not result in a MOT-test failure as a cruise symbol is not one of the warning lights specifically mentioned in the test regulations as requiring inspection.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Tourope - 2019-02-22 8:01 PM Hi Brian I made the mistake of letting the Hobby dealer do the 2nd service on the van, as they offered to do it along with the habitation service. They assured me it would use all Fiat compliant components and carry out the service in accordance with the service schedule. However this was not done by a Fiat service centre. So I guess they wouldn't have even checked the dash cluster as it's not part of the service schedule. I can't say definitely how long it has been evident. I certainly noticed last autumn when we were away in the van but as the lights were so dim I thought nothing more of it. And I certainly wasn't aware of the MOT requirements for such. The dealer who did the MOT this week was a Fiat service centre, but as I said they did not carry out the 2nd service which was done last year. They did though suggest, unofficially, I contact Fiat and see if they were prepared to offer some good will towards the cost of a replacement. Did the Hobby dealer also do the first service, or was that before the instrument panel fault became apparent? Whatever, in view of the widespread occurrences of this fault, I hope Fiat do the decent thing by you and don't hide behind their warranty terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 And that means a complete new instrument Cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chriss Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 I had my van (Citroen Relay L3H2 - 2015) MOT'd last weekend. I too assumed that the faint illumination of the TPMS indicator was bleed from the seatbelt indicator as it disappeared when I plugged my seatbelt in. After the MOT the tester came out to talk to me to explain he'd put an advisory on suggesting I should have a Diag check run on the vehicle. He said because the van "Didn't" have TPMS he couldn't fail the MOT which is why to cover himself he added the advisory. He said he had checked all the tyres to satisfy himself there was no TPMS fitted to the van! Unfortunately then van was 4 in January, so no warranty repairs :-( Cartronix say they can fix the cluster in 40 mins, so I assume they are either changing the microprocessor, or drying out the PCB then sealing it with a PCB sealer. So a bit more research :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2019 Share Posted February 28, 2019 Cartronix repairs were discussed in this recent-ish forum thread relating to an X250 Peugeot Boxer’s problematical instrument-cluster. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/2014-Peugeot-Boxer-instrument-cluster-problem/50777/ It will be noted that Cartronix had two ‘goes’ at fixing the problem, initially replacing the cluster’s display and processor, then replacing another ‘electronic component’. After the 2nd repair the cluster worked for 6 weeks, then died, then recovered. A Peugeot agent subsequently found some loose connections (which may have been the cause of the problem to begin with). The fault described in that thread appears to differ from the well-known ‘dim/spurious warning lights’ issue that is mentioned on this Cartronox webpage https://cartronix.co.uk/product/fiat-ducato-mk3-van-and-motor-home-instrument-cluster-dash-repair/ You’ll see that Cartronix say "We replace the faulty parts with new more robust components.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourope Posted March 2, 2019 Author Share Posted March 2, 2019 Well I phoned Fiat a week last Friday to report the issue. The guy at the European call centre sounded friendly and said he would look into some 'good will' and would call back the following Monday. Nobody called back Monday so I rang Fiat on Tuesday quoting the reference number I'd been given. The person said the issue had been handed to a case manager and she'd ask said manager to call me back. She didn't. On Tuesday I decided to go ahead with Cartronix and booked a slot on Thursday for the repair. I also called my Fiat dealer back to arrange an MOT re-test with Fiat for the following week. On Wednesday I got a call from the Fiat case manager and she asked who my Fiat delaer was so the could speak to them. FYI it was Stoneacre Hyde. I didn't hear back from them after that. On the Thursday I did the 500 mile round trip to Cartronix in Waterlooville from my house in Cheshire. It took them just over an hour and they charged me £150 for the repair plus £20 each way for removal and replacement of the dash cluster (so £190 total). I paid £90 in diesel and probably another £25 for meals and refreshments. That still brought the overall cost to a good deal less than half what Fiat were asking. And I suspect if Fiat had done the decent 'good will' gesture it wouldn't amount to half the cost of a replacement. I'm very happy with the Cartronix repair, thus far, so like others I would recommend them for a similar problem. Thanks again to everyone for their advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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