monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 That is possible without the approval of fiat or the house maker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 3:34 PM That is possible without the approval of fiat or the house maker. Not sure I understand/ Is this a question? Are you asking if possible? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 If you are asking "can it be done as a diy paperwork exicise" then I would say no. AFAIK for any upgrade you will need evidence of suitability, this would normally be throu Fiat, Motorhome manufacturer, or a company such as SV Tech, in any case I don't think they would go to 4tonne on the light chassis, at least not without suitable modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 This is just a confirmation that it is possible. As proved on the past CMT-Stuttgart fair by Goldschmitt, They have a premium partner or partners in the UK.You can make your light fiat up to 4 tons technically.And still driving licence B or c1. Your axle loads is and has ever been your own responsibility. Put your heavy tool box in front. This topic is the most discussed in the RV world. I wait for a friendly chat and seek advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Colin they do it. Why we should care how? We are just drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I believe something is missing in translation. B licence only covers up to 3.5tonne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 Goldschmitt as part of the Hymer group have now test grounds to prove this whit third party inspection. This is not like SV tech as far i understand. Any way they are allowed to change coc plates. As i said before your ducato can take the load. And do not go for the heavy if you can live whit 4k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 6:02 PM colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. But in the UK a B licence is limited to 3,500 kg. To drive anything heavier you MUST have a C1. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 6:02 PM colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. Monique Yes you can upgrade , we have recently done ours. BUT in UK when you reach 70 years old, in UK, you have to renew your licence every 3 years, and unless you have a medical , you can only drive up to 3500 i would think the majority of MH drivers (in UK) are close to and mostly over 70 years old , as sadly most of us have to work until pension age, when we have the time to trot of to Europe for longer lengths of time. Don't forget we have to make the crossing across the channel, and that is not cheap, befor we start our holidays. We have Uk friends living in France , who can just go away in van for a few days at a time PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Keithl - 2017-01-24 6:06 PM monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 6:02 PM colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. But in the UK a B licence is limited to 3,500 kg. To drive anything heavier you MUST have a C1. Keith. Not just the UK this covers the EU as well, I've found the press release which not only covers 3.5L but 3.3 as well, but once plated over 3.5 you need a C1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Keithl - 2017-01-24 6:06 PM monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 6:02 PM colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. But in the UK a B licence is limited to 3,500 kg. To drive anything heavier you MUST have a C1. Keith. The European driving-licence categories are listed here (there are even little pictures to help out!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_driving_licence The Category B entitlement limits a driver to a vehicle with a maximum overall weight not exceeding 3500kg. This is true throughout the EU, the only exception being France that has a peculiar ‘loophole’ (Code 79) that can allow a driver with a French B licence to drive unlimited-weight motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 colin - 2017-01-24 6:40 PM Keithl - 2017-01-24 6:06 PM monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-24 6:02 PM colin you are missing something . you can drive a light or heavy fiat chassis whit a B licence. But in the UK a B licence is limited to 3,500 kg. To drive anything heavier you MUST have a C1. Keith. Not just the UK this covers the EU as well, I've found the press release which not only covers 3.5L but 3.3 as well, but once plated over 3.5 you need a C1. Sorry Colin, Yes I agree but what I actually meant was holders of a UK licence. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airstream Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Where do you get your 4t from added to front or rear axle Heavy chassis I believe are all 16" wheels to gain the extra wheel/tyre /axle leading and where is your load located what is your max tyre load etc etc Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe66 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Yes, I done it last year. Phoned up the DVLA whom I found very helpful. I went from 3.2 to 3.5. could have gone to 3.8 but as I am coming up for 70 did not want the hassle of renewing my licence. All I was asked to do was send my log book and a weight bridge ticket and they up plated it for me then I got a new vin plate on the internet £42.took about 4/5 weeks. I forgot to say paper exercise only, no mods needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 A Ducato ‘light’ motorhome can be identified by it having front-axle hubs designed to accept a wheel with a 5x118 PCD Centre Bore 71.1 specification, whereas a Ducato ‘heavy’ motorhome has front-axle hubs designed for a wheel with a 5x130 PCD Centre Bore 78.1 specification. It doesn’t matter which motor is fitted, whether the motorhome is an A-class, ‘coachbuilt’ or panel-van conversion, or whether it has an Al-Ko, ‘camping-car’, standard-ladder or platform chassis - it’s the hubs that are the critical factor as these control the brake-disc diameter (280mm for ‘light’ Ducatos, or 300mm for ‘heavy’ Ducatos). As I understand Monique, Goldschmitt can offer a modified specification for a Ducato ‘light’ that can permit it to have a Maximum Authorised Mass of 4000kg. How they do this is anybody’s guess, but presumably they do not replace the front hubs/discs with the larger versions fitted as standard to Ducato ‘heavy’ models. I’m tempted to ask “So what?” unless motorhome manufacturers begin to market models based on a 4000kg MAM Ducato ‘light’ specification and Fiat (and Al-Ko if appropriate) approve this. Whether a motorhome has a MAM of 4000kg or 3505kg, in the UK and elsewhere in Europe it’s not going to be legally permissible for anyone with only an ordinary Category “B” driving-licence entitlement to drive the vehicle. Surely every UK forum-member is aware of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Quite! Also, does no-one consider why manufacturers apply weight restrictions to chassis? Engineering limitations dictate what loads can be carried. IMO, taking an engineered structure beyond its foreseen limits, especially when, as in this case, there are no matching enhancements to running gear and power train, is unwise, and probably foolish. It has ever been the case that just because something "can" be done, it does not follow that it "should" be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 At this moment I've only seen a press release with one line saying they can do this, no details as to how. I've not got Ducato specs to hand at moment, but I'm sure the combined axle max on 35L is below 4t, certainly the 33 is, so maybe they offer a upgrade 'pack'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 I drive fiat light whit 3850 plates. But on the road max 3500 because i have a B licence.You can upgrade your axles to 2000 front and 2250 rear by air or springs.However the MAM of the fiat light x290 is 3850 max due to esp and brakes. The 3650 and 3850 are paper up grades. The other technically. I go for full air now but do not change the plates.The older fiat x250 did not had the 3850 limit.Some integrals have overloaded front axles. This kind of upgrades can also used not pretending to change the MAM. It is the weight standing on your wheels individually on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 The 4000kg is goldschmitt from the last Cmt fair.Applicable to x250-290 2006- present. They can do the same trick on the type 244 2002-2006 because of absence of esp regulations.Wheels and tyres should follow of course the upgrade. I am just interested what they can get out of the fiat light. We have the 3500 kg. For 3650 you pay paper money same as for 3700 and 3850 etc if that was the end. Now we have 4000kg? Anyway if you make the right choice it can be a benefit. Be happy whit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 A copy of Goldschmitt’s 2014/2015 catalogue can be found here: http://magazine.camperonline.it/accessori/Goldschmitt-2014-2015.pdf Weight ‘uprating’ is covered in Pages 10 to 13 and it will be evident that Ducato X250 (Light) models could be uprated to 3850kg overall-weight with front and rear axle maxima at 2000kg and 2240kg respectively. Although this apparently would just involve springing modifications of one sort or another, the 2240kg rear-axle loading would (or should!) also force a tyre change if the vehicle started out with 215/70 R15C tyres with a 109 load index. As 2000kg + 2240kg = 4240kg there doesn’t seem to be any particular reason why the overall weight could not rise to 4000g or higher, rather than 3850kg, but would this concern the average motorcaravanner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Sorry for the row . These upgrades involve a new type approval sequence to cope whit the new ESP generations. That means that a lot of aftermarket solutions decline. Every new coc needs approval of the former ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 joe66 upgrading has nothing to whit the driver licence it just proves a technical thing that makes it road legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Yes derek because in my club of caravanners a lot of them are axle over loaded. In case of sale a c1 driver can utilise the upgrade weight. As said perfectly above the older ones are not interested. But it is still a vehicle to transport weight. About the tyres dont forget to read out the load of the wheel it self, that is tricky one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe66 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-25 3:26 PM joe66 upgrading has nothing to whit the driver licence it just proves a technical thing that makes it road legal. I only mentioned the licence because in the UK at 70 years old you need a medical for driving anything over 3.5 ton. I am 70 next year that is why I did not go to 3.850 ton when I up rated my van without any paperwork a.s per your original question, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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