Upgrading fiat light to 4000kg.

[Geeco]

In this part of the world the Auto-trail Tracker FB I drive is rated and plated at a max gross weight of 4250kg. The car licence here allows you to drive upto 4500kg. No limit on age until you reach 80. Sounds like heaven for us grey nomads and it probably is! By the way Happy Australia Day to you all. Cheers,

[Derek Uzzell]

I think what Monique is highlighting is that it is possible to obtain motorhomes based on Ducato ‘light’ chassis wth a Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) well in excess of 3500kg.

 

Although doing this will have driving-licence implications in Europe and (except for French B+Code 79 licence holders) will mean that a driver will need to have (at least) a C1 entitlement, if such a vehicle is purchased at the more usual (effectively ‘downrated’) weight of 3500kg, it will be very easy to return it to the higher MAM subsequently and this capability will be potentially advantageous when it comes to eventually selling the vehicle. It’s also likely to be a good deal cheaper to buy an over-3500kg Ducato ‘light’-based motorhome than opting for a Ducato Maxi ‘heavy’ version.

 

Burstner’s 2017 model-year UK Pricelist/Technical Data publication showed that the “Ixeo” range (built as standard on a Ducato ‘light’ 3500kg ‘camping-car’ chassis with Euro 6 MJ II 130 powerplant and with 16” steel wheels) could be ordered with the MJ II 150 or 180 motor, but could also be ordered on a Ducato Maxi 4000kg chassis (weight penalty 40kg).

 

Choosing the Maxi-chassis version would have cost an extra £1100-£1700 (depending on the particular Ixeo model), but the weight-upgrading option taking the weight of a 3500kg Ixeo to 3850kg (or weight-upgrading a Maxi 4000kg version to 4250kg) would have cost just £153.

 

So if a buyer decided he/she would benefit from having more payload, an Ixeo with a 3850kg weight-upgraded ‘light’ chassis would have been significantly cheaper than opting for the same model on a 4000kg Maxi chassis. Buyers would need to forgo the Maxi’s heavier-duty front brakes and whatever else Fiat fits to a Maxi chassis that ends up weighing 40kg, but perhaps that wouldn’t much concern them.

 

I continue to question how important this will be to buyers of new motorhomes unless all motorcaravan manufacturers offer models based on Ducato ‘light’ camping-car chassis with a MAM that’s close to that of a standard Maxi chassis.

 

Rapido still appears to offer models based on Ducato ‘light’ camping-car chassis with a maximum MAM of 3650kg and, when it’s possible to opt instead for a Maxi-chassis version, the latter’s MAM is 4400kg. Although choosing a Rapido 3650kg ‘light’ model is a no-cost option, all that is gained is 150kg of payload. Opting for the 4400kg Maxi version will cost a fair amount more, but there is a 710kg payload gain (4400-40-3650).

[PJay]

Geeco - 2017-01-26 1:20 AM

 

In this part of the world the Auto-trail Tracker FB I drive is rated and plated at a max gross weight of 4250kg. The car licence here allows you to drive upto 4500kg. No limit on age until you reach 80. Sounds like heaven for us grey nomads and it probably is! By the way Happy Australia Day to you all. Cheers,

 

Very interesting Gary. So what happens when you reach 80?

Can you hire cars at that age?

I ask as Oh is 80, and I will be next week!!

Would love to come and visit OZ, the one place never been, GOt close once in Bali.I have family in WA, and have considered a visit, but if we came, would want to tour around,as it would be a once only trip

PJay

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

To Derek. In the European there are the same rules whit some national deviations in motor homes to get a licence. Here we go for some facts about Belgium whit a mix to Germany. The EC weight tolerance of 5 percent is not allowed in Belgium being the only one. 3500 is 3500 and not 3675 in the plus. Following this rule it means that you can carry 3675 legal and technically. W/o paying a plate upgrade. Who is framing Roger Rabbit here.They speak for years to go down on this, but the builders have problems to comply. Most to humidity attack. Back to the upgrading topic you can drive legal whit B a upgraded 4000 motor home as long your MAM and axle loads are together 3500 and the right split. That is just licence downgrading which is common practice. About the topic which turning the fiat light into a low level fiat heavy is done by goldschmitt whit approval of German tuv and dekra the road authority .They are fully aware of the 3850- 4000. Yes it is still a fiat light in principal but whit a upgraded chassis. And not a heavy chassis and power train etc.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

All pension ages in europe for every one will rise to 70 years present. Because of the average life time of 90 years to come. Just prove yourself fit for purpose. Licence regulations should follow. I wish everybody on this site this age. Outside another yellow moon is punching a hole in the night time yes i clime out of the motor home and shining like a new dime. Debit Tom Waits.

 

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

To Derek you see the blocks on the left an i want to upload one of my dogs but the picture does not come. Any idea how come.?

[Derek Uzzell]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-26 5:11 PM

 

...Back to the upgrading topic you can drive legal whit B a upgraded 4000 motor home as long your MAM and axle loads are together 3500 and the right split...

 

This may be true in Belgium, but it is definitely not true in the UK - and this is, after all, a UK motorhome forum.

 

In the UK people who passed a ‘car’ driving-test before 1 January 1997 gained not only a “B” entitlement but also a “C1” entitlement that allowed them to drive a vehicle weighing up to 7500kg. The “C1” entitlement expires at age 70 unless the licence-holder applies to retain it and passes a medical examination. From 1 January 1997 the “C1” entitlement was not automatically awarded, just the “B” entitlement limiting vehicle overall-weight (MAM) to 3500kg.

 

Although there may be some leeway allowed if a vehicle is checked in the UK and found to be only slightly overweight, this does not affect the driving-licence regulations. As I emphasised earlier, it’s the MAM figure on the vehicle’s data-plate that counts and, if that figure were, say, 3505kg and the driver had just a “B” entitlement, the driver would be in breach of UK law. A vehicle’s axle-loadings are irrelevant as far as the UK driving-licence entitlement is concerned - if the MAM on the vehicle’s data-plate exceeds 3500kg a UK driver cannot legally drive that vehicle. This is made abundantly clear here

 

https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-categories

 

Let’s say Fiat provides a Ducato ‘light’ chassis to Burstner with a MAM of 3500kg on the Fiat data-plate. Having converted that chassis into a motorhome, if Burstner adds its own data-plate with a MAM of 3500kg on it, a UK motorist with just a “B” driving-licence entitlement can legally drive that motorhome. However, if the Burstner data-plate has a MAM that is greater than 3500kg, a UK motorist with just a “B” driving-licence entitlement CANNOT legally drive the motorhome. It’s as simple as that...

 

I don’t know how Goldschmitt operates regarding ‘uprating’, but when SVTech uprates a motorhome a revised data-plate should be fitted to the vehicle afterwards. And if the MAM shown on the revised data-plate exceeds 3500kg UK motorists with just a “B” entitlement won’t be legally able to drive the uprated motorhome.

[colin]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-26 5:11 PM

Back to the upgrading topic you can drive legal whit B a upgraded 4000 motor home as long your MAM and axle loads are together 3500 and the right split.

 

Once again I wonder if somethings gone astray in the translation.

MAM is a technical term, if it's 3500kg then that's whats on the data plate, it is not the actual weight, so you can have a vehicle which you could if wanted get upgraded, but it's legal limit is 3500kg,

[colin]

I've just been browsing GOCA, and rules there appear to be just the same as UK, the MMA (as they call MAM) is the limit not the actual weight.

[Derek Uzzell]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-01-26 6:13 PM

 

To Derek you see the blocks on the left an i want to upload one of my dogs but the picture does not come. Any idea how come.?

 

Advice on the forum’s Control Panel/Profile features can be found here

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Code-of-Conduct-and-User-Guidelines/Forum-User-Guide/You-and-your-profile/3990/

 

and the guidance at the foot of the list refers to what you want to do.

 

If you go into your Profile via the “Forums Control Panel”, towards the bottom of the Profile webpage is a section headed “Images” that allows you to select a file from your computer.

 

I’ve (temporarily) stuck a dog image on my postings. The image is a photo that I ‘stole’ off the internet and copied to my own computer. If the file containing your dog’s photo is fairly small (the one I used happens to be 21kb) and has a .jpeg or .jpg file-extension, it should transfer OK.

 

If the image does not show up properly in your Profile (with “Existing image” above it) then it’s unlikely to appear on your postings.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

For the ones interested all details are now available on the home page of goldschmitt.

[david lloyd]

Well, I don't understand half of this 'european' uprating of a light chassis - all i know is that last year I found our Chausson Welcome 717GA (built on the Fiat Ducato Light chassis) was over weight by 350kgs and the rear axle was overweight by 240kgs when fully loaded for a long trip. I could have uprated the chassis to the maximum permitted on the Fiat plate (3650kgs) as a paper exercise through DVLA but, as this would not overcome the shortfall in either the MAM or rear axle loading had to seek advice from SvTech.

 

In the end I had to fit rear air suspension bags and replace the standard fit 215/70 R15 tyres on the rear axle with 225/70 R15 tyres with a higher load index. This allowed the vehicke to be taken up to 3850kgs MAM and a rear axle loading of 2240kgs. The cost of this little exercise was:

 

Air suspension - £547

Tyres - £188

SvTech - £312

 

A total of £1047

 

One thing I would point out is that having a MAM of 4000kgs may prove useless if the rear axle weight limit does not provide sufficient payload - especially with large garage Motorhomes.

 

David

[colin]

david lloyd - 2017-02-03 4:01 PM

 

Well, I don't understand half of this 'european' uprating of a light chassis - all i know is that last year I found our Chausson Welcome 717GA (built on the Fiat Ducato Light chassis) was over weight by 350kgs and the rear axle was overweight by 240kgs when fully loaded for a long trip. I could have uprated the chassis to the maximum permitted on the Fiat plate (3650kgs) as a paper exercise through DVLA but, as this would not overcome the shortfall in either the MAM or rear axle loading had to seek advice from SvTech.

 

In the end I had to fit rear air suspension bags and replace the standard fit 215/70 R15 tyres on the rear axle with 225/70 R15 tyres with a higher load index. This allowed the vehicke to be taken up to 3850kgs MAM and a rear axle loading of 2240kgs. The cost of this little exercise was:

 

Air suspension - £547

Tyres - £188

SvTech - £312

 

A total of £1047

 

One thing I would point out is that having a MAM of 4000kgs may prove useless if the rear axle weight limit does not provide sufficient payload - especially with large garage Motorhomes.

 

David

 

Goldsmitt appear to be doing the same, i.e. upgrading the suspension.

[Derek Uzzell]

GOOGLE provides the following translation relating to Goldschmitt’s approach

 

................................................................................................................................

 

"Uprating | 4,000 kg zGG | Fiat Ducato, from year of construction 2006

 

Do you need more payloads for your mobile home? Then we have the right solution for you. With our load-bearing packages, both the axle loads and the permissible total weight of the popular Ducato chassis can be increased.

 

For which vehicle models is the overload available?

For Reisemobile based on the Fiat Ducato 33/35 Light from year of construction 2006 with series or AL-KO chassis (single axle).

 

How are the axle loads and the permissible total weight?

The front axle load of the Fiat Ducato (original: 1.750-1.900 kg) can be increased to a maximum of 2,000 kg. The rear axle load (original: 1.900-2.000 kg) to a maximum of 2,240 kg. The permissible total weight (original: 3.300-3.500 kg) can be increased to a maximum of 4,000 kg.

 

Please note that the axle loads will be reduced as soon as changes are made to the track widths.

 

What rebuilding measures are required?

There are different variants with which an overload can be realized. If you want to increase the permissible total weight to 4,000 kg, a spring reinforcement on the front and rear axle is required in combination with a load-bearing wheel-tire combination. A spring reinforcement can be realized in the form of a reinforced coil spring on the front axle and a supplementary air spring on the rear axle. Alternatively, it is possible to optimize by means of a full-air spring system. If you only want to increase the axle loads, a spring reinforcement on the respective axle in combination with a load-bearing wheel-tire combination is sufficient.

 

In the following, we have listed the possible variants of the overload.

 

Version 1

- Reinforced coil springs on the front axle

- Additional air springs on the rear axle

- Aluminum rims GSM4 or GSM8 with load bearing tires

 

Variant 2

- Reinforced coil springs on the front axle

- Full air spring system (2-channel system) on the rear axle including AirDriveControl®

- Aluminum rims GSM4 or GSM8 with load bearing tires

 

Variant 3

- Full air spring system (4-channel system) on front and rear axle including AirDriveControl®

- Aluminum rims GSM4 or GSM8 with load bearing tires

 

If you have already installed one of the above listed variants in your RV and your vehicle fulfills all requirements, you can of course also apply for an additional charge. For assembly, please contact one of our Goldschmitt Technical Centers or a certified Goldschmitt Premium Partner.”

 

................................................................................................................................

 

 

It needs to be appreciated that the ‘rules’ applying to motorhome weight uprating in one country are not necessarily the same elsewhere.

 

In the UK companies such as SVTech wiil tell a motorhome owner what measures they believe will be required to meet certain uprating requirements such as an increase in MTPLM and/or increases in maximum axle-loadings. Those measures may involve no ‘mechanical’ alterations (when the process will just be a ‘paper exercise’) or changing springs, wheels, tyres, etc. However, there will be a uprating threshold that SVTech will not go beyond.

 

The UK’s DVLA is prepared to accept SVTech’s expertise and, as long as the requisite evidence relating to the upgrade is provided, the DVLA will authorise the uprating and alter the motorhome’s V5C registration-document accordingly. As far I’m aware the DVLA is uninterested in potential conflicts between a motorhome’s ECWVTA (European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval) and uprating it - as long as the DVLA is happy with SVTech’s submission the uprating will be authorised.

 

Outside the UK uprating a motorhome may be far trickier. In France for example, it won’t be a practicable proposition unless it’s just a ‘paper exercise’.

 

From what Monique has said before, in Belgium the potential impact of uprating on a motorhome’s ECWVTA is given consideration and may involve the vehicle’s Type Approval Certificate of Conformity (CofC) needing to be modified. This doesn’t happpen in the UK, even if it should!!

 

Ducato-‘light’-based motorhomes with Al-Ko chassis have been marketed for some time with a 3850kg MTPLM, and Burstner’s brochures indicate that they offer 3850kg MTPLM models based on Ducato ‘lights’ having Fiat’s own ‘camping-car’ chassis. But in both instances the 3850kg figure will be shown in the CofC created by the motorhome’s manufacturer and not by Fiat. I don’t know what Goldschmitt do about ECWVTA and CofC compliance.

 

Although Goldschmitt’s uprating-a-Ducato-‘light'-to-4000kg options are worth being aware of, I’m still not convinced that they will be relevant to UK motorcaravanners unless motorhome manufacturers generally offer the Goldschmitt modifications as factory options and/or UK motorhome-uprating specialists like SVTech include them in their recommendations.

 

If I were a UK buyer of a new motorhome and I had the choice of a Ducato ‘light’ uprated to 4000kg via the Goldschmitt adaptations, or a 4000kg Ducato ‘heavy’ in standard format, I can’t see any persuasive arguments for opting for the former.

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed! However, there are further considerations, IMO.

 

First, as I understand Gross Train Weight, it is a limit imposed by the manufacturer (and included in the CoC, VIN plate, and V5C) based on the maximum load at which the vehicle can drive away from standstill on a given gradient (can't remember the gradient, but it is imposed via the EU as part of the vehicle mandatory test procedures). So, logically, if MAM is increased by 500kg, the GTW will remain unaltered, and the maximum permissible trailer load will automatically be reduced by 500k. Not a problem for everyone, but for those wishing to tow a car?

 

Second, whereas tyres (and therefore wheels), and suspension may be upgraded to take the additional load, brakes are not, and neither are hubs/wheel bearings. Also, the power train remains as designed for 3,500kg, as does the cooling system. Motorhomes are relatively heavy vehicles compared to the maximum load the base vehicles are designed to carry. Most, I would hazard, are heavier unladen than many laden "white vans". Most laden motorhomes (as David discovered above!) are within a few percentage points of the MAM, quite a few at their MAM, while a very few (we hope!), exceed their MAM. So, we take our 3,500kg motorhome, up the MAM to 4,000kg, and then sally forth across the Alps or wherever. Being adventurous types, we decide to tackle, say, the Col du Croix de Fer in France (choose your pass if you don't fancy that one! :-)). You are now dragging 4 tonnes 30 odd km up a fairly constant 1:20 - with sections over 1:10 - to an altitude of just over 2,000 metres (with a cooling system designed for 3.5 tonnes), and then down again (similar gradients and distances both sides :-)), with a braking system designed for 3.5 tonnes. OK, so I'm a wimp, but sooner you (in your own van, please!) than me! :-D

 

I think this is an exercise in what one can do, rather than what one should do. So, possible, yes, but wise? Hmmmmmm!

[colin]

I've been mulling this over trying to think where this might be useful.

I agree with above if wanting to have 4t van it would be best to buy one on the heavy chassis, but there are a couple of cases where upgrading the 3.3t to 3.5t might be handy, a point in case would be the Adria Twin, originally these came out the factory as 3.3L or 3.5H (and I believe still do), the early 3.3s have a tendency to overload the front axle, an upgrade of the axles to 3.5t would resolve the front axle problems and give some extra load capacity.

If I was looking to buy a new Twin I would prefer it to be on a 3.5L, if as I believe Adria won't supply this I would investigate having the 3.3 upgraded to 3.5 as opposed to having the 3.5H as the ride is better.

[bigparkie]

f.a.o. Derek/Brian had Van weighed, fully loaded less passengers it was 3560kg, both axles 200+ below maximum so updated to 4000kg, front axle 1850 rear 2430. Going to France and Spain in 3 months because the coc is original will it be legal.

Regards Richard.

 

[Brian Kirby]

bigparkie - 2017-02-04 8:46 PM

 

f.a.o. Derek/Brian had Van weighed, fully loaded less passengers it was 3560kg, both axles 200+ below maximum so updated to 4000kg, front axle 1850 rear 2430. Going to France and Spain in 3 months because the coc is original will it be legal.

Regards Richard.

How was the van uprated, and by whom, Richard?

Do you have paperwork confirming the new weights?

Was a new plate provided (and fitted) to confirm the uprating (including the enhanced axle loads)?

Was the V5C altered to show the new weight, and the taxation class revised to PHG?

 

If all these have been done correctly, and you have records etc. from a competent auto-engineer, I think your vehicle is fully legal in UK whatever the CoC says. If that is the case, your vehicle will be legal throughout the EU.

 

I suggest you don't take the CoC with you. AFAIK, it is not a legally required vehicle document (V5C and certificate of insurance - originals only - are) and, as it will give conflicting figures to your VIN plate and V5C, it might cause unnecessary confusion in countries where alteration of the CoC on upgrading is mandatory.

[bigparkie]

Hello Brian

Uprate done by sv tech,I have all the paperwork including v5 and and a new plate showing revised weights,v5 shows 4000kg and phgv.

Thanks for advice

Richard

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Very impressive comments delivered on this topic. It proves that if you follow the rules we are now at 4000kg. You may be noticed that the subject is related to fiat front and rear axle. Not AL-KO torsion bar axle. By the rules it is said that only COP approved adapters can make this change and can alter the coc into a new-one and the plates. Including weight and brake testing and wheel alignment. They are allowed to remove the part one 3650 fiat under the bonnet.And a new part two house plate should be as far i understand from the house maker. Not sure if the originals should be removed. Please advise.In case of AL-KO chassis bolted to fiat 35l/335 light you have part 2 for alko and part 3 for the house being responsible for the end product. In case you alter the under-body whit parts which are alter their guarantee you must have a green card from them. AL-Ko delivers the flwg code chassis : To the light version: 35L,37L,38L, 3500,3700,3850 kg. All three whit 1850/2000 f/r max axle loads. Is their any technical between the three or just paper? What about the ESP? Any way the wind blows : I like to see all formal papers, plates, new coc documents and house approvals to prove the topic.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Do not add load combinations on the rear to this topic .Thats why they offer 3650.3700,3850. 4000, combinations. That is optional payload. You are responsible for that as your individual axle loads and they are increased in this topic. I have now 3850 axle loads and plates. Alko said to me this morning we can do the same thing as goldschmitt. Without changing the present torsion bars. Our chassis can take 5 times the design load before rupture.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Brian that V5 etc is that European or national? Still have problems to believe that you can not drive a fiat upgraded light, or a heavy whit a B licence as long you drive max 3500kg. That is done in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany etc. It is just downgrading. The plates will not change. You can reverse this again by a c1 licence. Why not in the uk? On our licence document we F1 technical max mass and F2 national max mass.In my case 3850 and 3500 respectively. But to change the F1 now to 4000kg is also possible. Just fit for purpose.The brake distance increased a little bit. The three cables on your alko rear: Handbrake,oil brake and ABS sensor are compatible.I think that whit a alko the border lines can even be higher whit air suspension. And that fiat front difference in L/H is just brakes and L/H Mc Phersons springs. No More.The sub frame called the front axle and the seat belt structure and seat pedestal is a mass product from china. A friend of mine has a new adria sonic supreme. He wants a alko X2 air suspension on his single rear axle retro.That model has a highframe alko axle which has a different axle block etc than the lower variants 144-220.On the internet all pictures are for the lower version not any one for a high frame. Is there any body whit a adria or fleurette whit x2 or x4 on the rear to provide a picture? The bottle of champagne stands ready for shipping.

[Keithl]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-02-07 4:34 PM

 

Brian that V5 etc is that European or national? Still have problems to believe that you can not drive a fiat upgraded light, or a heavy whit a B licence as long you drive max 3500kg.

 

 

Monique,

 

The UK law quite clearly states that it is a Vehicles MAM or Maximum Authorised Mass which determines the class of driving licence required and NOT the actual weight at the time you are driving it.

 

Here is an extract from our official government website...

 

"Licence requirements

 

The licence you need to drive a motorhome depends on your age and the vehicle’s maximum authorised mass (MAM). This is the vehicle’s weight plus the maximum load it can carry.

 

To drive a motorhome with a MAM of between 3.5 and 7.5 tonnes, you need a category C1 licence.

 

To drive a motorhome with a MAM of over 7.5 tonnes, you need a category C licence."

 

And a link to the website page...

 

https://www.gov.uk/driving-motorhome

 

I am actually quite surprised that you are allowed to get away with driving with the 'wrong' class of licence in Belgium! I don't know how you'd get on if you where stopped in the UK? Possibly not be allowed to carry on with your journey?

 

Keith.

[colin]

As I've posted before, I believe something is lost in translation, the rules in Belgium are the same as UK, unless that is they have the same ruling used in france that Derek noted.

[Brian Kirby]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-02-07 4:34 PM

 

Brian that V5 etc is that European or national? Still have problems to believe that you can not drive a fiat upgraded light, or a heavy whit a B licence as long you drive max 3500kg. That is done in Belgium, Netherlands and Germany etc. It is just downgrading. The plates will not change. You can reverse this again by a c1 licence. Why not in the uk?...................

Ah! The great myth that standards are common across the EU! :-D They are not, and never have been, except where the EU has decreed that they must be. Even then, there are individual, national, variations, to harmonise practises that existed before countries joined, where the new EU standard would unfairly penalise citizens of those countries. There is not consistency. So, in UK, we have a driving license (permis de conduire, si vous êtes francophone) that has a C1 category, between B and C. This permits the holder to drive vehicles over 3,500kg MAM and up to 7,500kg MAM. The French, for example, do not have this.

 

But, I digress! Most UK drivers will have either category B or category C1 licences. The category B licence permits the holder to drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM (PTAC in France). As above, the C1 permits the driver up to 7,500kg MAM.

 

This means that the MAM of the vehicle governs which licence the driver must hold to drive it legally. This will be the weight shown on the manufacturer's plate: that is the plate that shows the Vehicle Indentification Number, or VIN. Its actual laden weight (poids en charge) is not relevant. So, if the vehicle MAM (or PTAC) exceeds 3,500kg, the driver must hold a C1 or C licence.

 

What you appear to be describing - that a vehicle plated at 4,000kg could be driven by a driver holding only a category B licence, providing the vehicle does not actually weigh more than 3,500kg - is not the case in the UK. Simply, the driver of that vehicle would, legally, be treated as driving without a licence (they would also be uninsured). My understanding of the legal position in France is that the same is true there.

 

So, in UK, if you want to drive a vehicle plated at 4,000kg on a B licence, you must have the vehicle plate changed to show 3,500kg, and the V5C (carte grise, or certificat d'immatriculation) must also be altered to show 3,500kg. The same is true if the MAM (or PTAC) is to be increased from 3,500kg to 4,000kg, and in addition, the driver must then hold, or obtain, a category C1, or C, driving licence.

 

I am therefore puzzled that what you describe can be so in Belgium and, with great respect, I wonder if you may be thinking of the position before the 2013 driving licence changes came into force across the EU? With my apologies, I wonder if it might be worth you checking whether your perception of the legal position is still correct. Otherwise, this is just another of those local anomalies that has carried over for historic reasons, and is unique to Belgium. :-)