Milenco levellers

[Brambles]

They can still slide, especially on wet concrete or tarmac and you are trying to get non driven wheels up the ramps. You definetly need ramps with a non smooth underneath surface on hard ground.

 

[bigal]

Brambles - 2010-05-12 3:50 PM

 

I think the claim is that additional chocks sre not required as excessive rolling force is not applied to the vehicle (trying to roll down the ramp) which the handbrake might not hold.

Anyway! Is it not possible to use standard wheel chocks behind the wheels not on ramps to stop the motorhome rolling off the ramps. Seems a simple solution to me!

Jon.

 

Of course extra chocks can be used, the handbrake applied etc. but that is not the claim made by the manufacturer and the advert is mis-leading, especially at £65-£70 a pair. As Mel B points out many motorhomes, especially low profiles, are low at the front and need levelling even on a level pitch. I usually steer clear of experts after having been in automotive engineering both practical and theoretical for many years prior to retirement but I greatly appreciate all the contributions to my original post.

I was once told the definition of an "Expert" was as follows:

X = The unknown quantity and "Spurt" =a sudden effort - and there you have it. (lol) B-)

[Brian Kirby]

Bigal, you may not appreciate that the "Expert" title is accorded to people automatically by the forum, merely according to the number of posts they have made.  It is not a self-selected title.  You comment could therefore seem rudely dismissive of someone who frequently demonstrates very considerable expertise.

[bigal]

Brian Kirby - 2010-05-14 6:31 PM

Bigal, you may not appreciate that the "Expert" title is accorded to people automatically by the forum, merely according to the number of posts they have made.  It is not a self-selected title.  You comment could therefore seem rudely dismissive of someone who frequently demonstrates very considerable expertise.

It wasn't meant to be rude- just humorous - it was used by the lads when I was at college, having said that, I was not aware that the title was awarded by the forum so if I did upset anyone it was not intended. :$ B-)

[Mel B]

bigal - 2010-05-14 4:43 PM

 

I was once told the definition of an "Expert" was as follows:

X = The unknown quantity and "Spurt" =a sudden effort - and there you have it. (lol) B-)

 

(lol)

[Mel B]

Brambles - 2010-05-13 10:52 PM

 

They can still slide, especially on wet concrete or tarmac and you are trying to get non driven wheels up the ramps. You definetly need ramps with a non smooth underneath surface on hard ground.

 

In which case, why not glue or tie (using cable ties) some rubber mats to the bottom .. should stop them slip sliding away .... if we have a problem we just whip the rubber mats out of the cab footwells and use them with the levellers on top.

[Blizzard]

JohnP - 2010-05-13 10:21 PM

 

If you use the clip-on pieces shown below, the blocks (Milenco Froli type)do not slip on any surface.

The tyre first runs onto the clip-on and this holds the wedged block in place. With these fitted the wedge cannot slide away.

 

Fully agree :-D We use another brand of leveller and had similar problems with them sliding on concrete. After buying their clip on anti-slip plate, the problem was immediately solved. The tyre rolls on to the plate, which is firmly attached to the ramp and the weight of the vehicle prevents any slippage as the tyre rolls up the ramp.

[bigal]

Mel B - 2010-05-15 10:03 PM

 

bigal - 2010-05-14 4:43 PM

 

I was once told the definition of an "Expert" was as follows:

X = The unknown quantity and "Spurt" =a sudden effort - and there you have it. (lol) B-)

 

(lol)

 

Yeah' thanks for that Mel B-)

 

"A laugh a day keeps the doctor away"

[Derek Uzzell]

Returning to the original posting, I notice that Riversway Leisure (who market various levellers including the Milenco Quattro product) offer several designs of chock one of which might be suitable for Quattro. See

 

http://www.riverswayleisure.co.uk/acatalog/Levelling.html

 

As far as Quattro is concerned, on occasions when the slope is very steep and the levellers' highest elevation is being used, there's a reasonable chance that a motorhome will stay on these levellers without chocks and without the handbrake on or a gear being selected, but otherwise the vehicle will tend to roll off them.

 

Milenco's 'pocketing' claim is unrealistic. Unlike Boudicca's solid wooden chariot wheels, pneumatic tyres are flexible and, when half a tonne or more of weight is pressing down on a motorhome tyre, the 'footprint' where the tyre contacts the ground is decidedly flat rather than a nice curve. If you wanted to 'pocket' the tyre properly, then the pocket's shape would need to be something like this \_____/

 

Quattro levellers are 800mm in length (32" in old money), with a 'pocket' size around 180mm (7") from high-point to high-point. The front high-point of each pocket is (obviously) higher than the rear, so there's a natural tendency for the motorhome to roll back down the levellers. If you wanted to ensure this didn't happen, you'd probably need to add 100mm (4") to the pocket-length which would, in turn, increase the Quattro's overall length to a massive 1200mm (47"-ish). It would be interesting to try out bigal's three longer pockets/same overall length & overall elevation suggestion, though I suspect it might be difficult to 'climb' the motorhome from one pocket to the next. And, of course, you'd have only three pre-defined heights, not the present four.

 

In the MMM article mentioned by bigal, Peter Rosenthal comments that "if you're on the ramps squarely the tyres sit neatly in the hollows" - this isn't strictly accurate. If you are on the ramps squarely, then the flattened footprint of the tyre deforms to match the ramps' hollows, with part of the tread bulging into the hollow's dip and the high points each side of the dip digging into the tread to the front and rear of that bulge.

 

This deformation is very evident and I readily admit to feeling uncomfortable about it when I first used my set of Quattro levellers. I also admit to having needed two goes as, initially, I didn't get the levellers the same distance from the wheels and one of the tyres ended up perched right on top of a high point and looking very unhappy. (With simple inclined ramps judiciously positioned, it's straightforward to raise one wheel higher than its opposite number should you feel so inclined. If you attempt this with the Milenco design, you'd be very lucky to get both wheels in pockets.)

 

Using the storage bag supplied with a pair of Milenco Quattro levellers results in a bulky rigid package 800mm x 250mm x 240mm (32" x 10" x 10" roughly), so, nowadays, I store mine separately in bin-bags. I still carry my original set of conventional, much more compact, 'wedge' levellers and I only use the Quattros when I need the extra elevation they provide. The Quattro's no-requirement-for-chocks claim isn't an issue for me as I haven't got a swivel on the driver's seat and, consequently, can leave handbrake and gear-lever engaged while the motorhome is on whichever set of levellers I'm employing.

[RogerGW]

...it's straightforward to raise one wheel higher than its opposite number should you feel so inclined.

 

Ho ho ho. 8=)

 

Roger

[milenco]

Hi this is Milenco Limited.

 

We do not normally respond on Forums; however in this instance we feel a response may be appropriate.

 

We spent four years developing the Quattro Level using a number of Motorhomes in typical UK camping conditions. We are very proud of these British designed products and there are three patent pending for the innovations in these products. We know with previous designs there are many issues and we feel that people have confused the shortfalls of old designs with our product.

 

It is evident that most of the comments posted on this forum about problems relating to people’s experiences with other products, which are not Milenco, nor are they the same in design.

 

Firstly using levels on concrete and grass;

 

The Quattro and Triple levels are seriously dimpled underneath and have teeth that grip the leading edge of the tyre that do hold the level in place on the concrete and grass. We know with other products they are very difficult to use on concrete and grass. Milenco Quattro/Triple levels do not need gripper plates, or pegging into place.

 

Chocks;

 

As a manufacture we do not like the use of chocks. The risk of personal injury or hand trap is unacceptable to us therefore we have designed out chocks from all our products on safety grounds.

 

Pocketing the wheel;

 

We have made numerous trials and we know that our Quattro and Triple levels make the best job of positioning the Motorhome on the level step.

The primary purpose of the wheel pocketing is simplicity of use as the wheel will drop into each step of the level. The pocket size is the smallest that will hold the largest Motorhome wheel.

We could have made bigger pockets but this would have made the level longer and no one likes to give away precious storage room.

The only time in our experience will the pockets not hold a Motorhome (when levelled) is when the two levels are misaligned (sometimes by unnecessary) pegging so that one wheel is on a peak. The pockets need to be inline to hold the Motorhome.

 

We are soon to update our website and will provide more information and tips on use, soon.

 

Kind regards

 

Milenco Limited

 

[Guest Tracker]

bigal - 2010-05-14 4:43 PM

I was once told the definition of an "Expert" was as follows:

X = The unknown quantity and "Spurt" =a sudden effort - and there you have it.

 

Not quite!

 

A spurt is also defined as a 'drip under pressure'!

 

Nice to see Milenco taking note - although their tone does semm to suggest to me that they have a belief that they are always right and the user is always wrong which may not reflect the reality of their product?

 

I've have a set which I won in a competition and they do seem well made and strong but they are so bulky (and so heavy) that we don't have any spare storage space for them - so they sit in the loft at home and we carry on with my home made wooden ones which cost nowt to make from timber offcuts and always work for us.

 

On the odd occasion that I need to let the handbrake off, if the van then wants to roll I simply get the wife to stick her foot behind the wheel and stop it until I get the brake back on again!

[bigal]

milenco - 2010-05-18 2:32 PM

 

Hi this is Milenco Limited.

 

We do not normally respond on Forums; however in this instance we feel a response may be appropriate.

 

We spent four years developing the Quattro Level using a number of Motorhomes in typical UK camping conditions. We are very proud of these British designed products and there are three patent pending for the innovations in these products. We know with previous designs there are many issues and we feel that people have confused the shortfalls of old designs with our product.

 

It is evident that most of the comments posted on this forum about problems relating to people’s experiences with other products, which are not Milenco, nor are they the same in design.

 

Firstly using levels on concrete and grass;

 

The Quattro and Triple levels are seriously dimpled underneath and have teeth that grip the leading edge of the tyre that do hold the level in place on the concrete and grass. We know with other products they are very difficult to use on concrete and grass. Milenco Quattro/Triple levels do not need gripper plates, or pegging into place.

 

Chocks;

 

As a manufacture we do not like the use of chocks. The risk of personal injury or hand trap is unacceptable to us therefore we have designed out chocks from all our products on safety grounds.

 

Pocketing the wheel;

 

We have made numerous trials and we know that our Quattro and Triple levels make the best job of positioning the Motorhome on the level step.

The primary purpose of the wheel pocketing is simplicity of use as the wheel will drop into each step of the level. The pocket size is the smallest that will hold the largest Motorhome wheel.

We could have made bigger pockets but this would have made the level longer and no one likes to give away precious storage room.

The only time in our experience will the pockets not hold a Motorhome (when levelled) is when the two levels are misaligned (sometimes by unnecessary) pegging so that one wheel is on a peak. The pockets need to be inline to hold the Motorhome.

 

We are soon to update our website and will provide more information and tips on use, soon.

 

Kind regards

 

Milenco Limited

Since I posted the first observation on this product and also contacted Milenco about this Forum: I feel that Milencos' Rep. is missing the point ie "the leveller does not obviate the need for chocks". In my opinion this is a good product which doesn't meet all the claims made by the manufacturer. Derek Uzzell (see post above) has got the right approach and I agree with his comments. Making bigger pockets would not necessarily lengthen the levellers it would only reduce the number of pockets, see my earlier post. With regard to the weight, the levellers are a substantial piece of kit and I can live with that and I agree with the comments made regarding the surface profiling, these are some of the good points but the vehicle will still roll off the levellers if the handbrake is not fully applied or chocks are used. :-S B-)

[bigal]

Tracker - 2010-05-18 4:17 PM

 

bigal - 2010-05-14 4:43 PM

I was once told the definition of an "Expert" was as follows:

X = The unknown quantity and "Spurt" =a sudden effort - and there you have it.

 

Not quite!

 

A spurt is also defined as a 'drip under pressure'!

 

Nice to see Milenco taking note - although their tone does semm to suggest to me that they have a belief that they are always right and the user is always wrong which may not reflect the reality of their product?

 

I've have a set which I won in a competition and they do seem well made and strong but they are so bulky (and so heavy) that we don't have any spare storage space for them - so they sit in the loft at home and we carry on with my home made wooden ones which cost nowt to make from timber offcuts and always work for us.

 

On the odd occasion that I need to let the handbrake off, if the van then wants to roll I simply get the wife to stick her foot behind the wheel and stop it until I get the brake back on again!

Yes I've heard that one as well! Just wondered what size feet the wife has? Keep Smiling! (lol) B-)

[bigal]

Derek Uzzell - 2010-05-17 8:15 AM

 

Returning to the original posting, I notice that Riversway Leisure (who market various levellers including the Milenco Quattro product) offer several designs of chock one of which might be suitable for Quattro. See

 

http://www.riverswayleisure.co.uk/acatalog/Levelling.html

 

As far as Quattro is concerned, on occasions when the slope is very steep and the levellers' highest elevation is being used, there's a reasonable chance that a motorhome will stay on these levellers without chocks and without the handbrake on or a gear being selected, but otherwise the vehicle will tend to roll off them.

 

Milenco's 'pocketing' claim is unrealistic. Unlike Boudicca's solid wooden chariot wheels, pneumatic tyres are flexible and, when half a tonne or more of weight is pressing down on a motorhome tyre, the 'footprint' where the tyre contacts the ground is decidedly flat rather than a nice curve. If you wanted to 'pocket' the tyre properly, then the pocket's shape would need to be something like this \_____/

 

Quattro levellers are 800mm in length (32" in old money), with a 'pocket' size around 180mm (7") from high-point to high-point. The front high-point of each pocket is (obviously) higher than the rear, so there's a natural tendency for the motorhome to roll back down the levellers. If you wanted to ensure this didn't happen, you'd probably need to add 100mm (4") to the pocket-length which would, in turn, increase the Quattro's overall length to a massive 1200mm (47"-ish). It would be interesting to try out bigal's three longer pockets/same overall length & overall elevation suggestion, though I suspect it might be difficult to 'climb' the motorhome from one pocket to the next. And, of course, you'd have only three pre-defined heights, not the present four.

 

In the MMM article mentioned by bigal, Peter Rosenthal comments that "if you're on the ramps squarely the tyres sit neatly in the hollows" - this isn't strictly accurate. If you are on the ramps squarely, then the flattened footprint of the tyre deforms to match the ramps' hollows, with part of the tread bulging into the hollow's dip and the high points each side of the dip digging into the tread to the front and rear of that bulge.

 

This deformation is very evident and I readily admit to feeling uncomfortable about it when I first used my set of Quattro levellers. I also admit to having needed two goes as, initially, I didn't get the levellers the same distance from the wheels and one of the tyres ended up perched right on top of a high point and looking very unhappy. (With simple inclined ramps judiciously positioned, it's straightforward to raise one wheel higher than its opposite number should you feel so inclined. If you attempt this with the Milenco design, you'd be very lucky to get both wheels in pockets.)

 

Using the storage bag supplied with a pair of Milenco Quattro levellers results in a bulky rigid package 800mm x 250mm x 240mm (32" x 10" x 10" roughly), so, nowadays, I store mine separately in bin-bags. I still carry my original set of conventional, much more compact, 'wedge' levellers and I only use the Quattros when I need the extra elevation they provide. The Quattro's no-requirement-for-chocks claim isn't an issue for me as I haven't got a swivel on the driver's seat and, consequently, can leave handbrake and gear-lever engaged while the motorhome is on whichever set of levellers I'm employing.

Thanks for the link Derek, I've had a look but there aren't any dimensions quoted for the various chocks and I still think the way forward is for Milenco to develop some that are purpose made to suit the leveller top profile. It would be interesting to know the length of the pockets on the Riversway "Tyremaster" though. B-)

[Guest Tracker]

bigal - 2010-05-18 6:20 PM

Just wondered what size feet the wife has? Keep Smiling! (lol) B-)

 

Perfic choc sized Al!

[Rowan Lee]

I too was disappointed with the wheel positioning on these chocks, wasn't happy with the look of it at all. However, has anyone experienced any trouble driving onto these chocks? I purchased a pair and the first time I used them I had difficulty driving up and there were terrible burning clutch smells. On the next occasion my husband drove up and had less difficulty, but we still had the distinctive burning smell. I subsequently gave the levels to my sister (she has a smaller, lighter van) without telling her why, and was with her when she tried them for the first time. She got up onto them reasonably well but again the clutch was smelling. We have binned them now.

[Derek Uzzell]

bigal - 2010-05-18 6:32 PM

 

Thanks for the link Derek, I've had a look but there aren't any dimensions quoted for the various chocks and I still think the way forward is for Milenco to develop some that are purpose made to suit the leveller top profile. It would be interesting to know the length of the pockets on the Riversway "Tyremaster" though. B-)

 

I couldn't find a "Tyremaster" product on the Riversway Leisure website. I found a "Chockmaster" and a "Tyresaver", and I'm guessing you mean the latter as that's the one with 'pockets'. The equivalent (but cheaper) Fiamma "Wheel Saver" is 46cm (18") long, so I expect the Tyresaver is much the same. This would suggest a high-point to high-point pocket-length for Tyresaver of around 38cm (15"), which would tally with a rough measurement I've made of the contact footprint of my motorhome's 215/75 R16C tyres. This puts the Milenco Quattro's 7"-length (and inclined rather than 'horizontal') pocket size into perspective and graphically illustrates why motorhomes will roll off the Quattros in most situations unless the vehicle is held on the levellers by some mechanical means.

 

I acknowledge that the Quattro levellers are well made, sturdy and that the design is innovative. However, you only need a kindergarten-level understanding of geometry and the effect of gravity, and to have real world experience of using the Quattro levellers, to be aware that the "Pocketing the wheel" advice from Milenco's spokesman is high on twaddle (and a wee bit patronising).

 

It's evident from the letter in MMM and bigal's postings that some motorcaravanners are purchasing the Quattro product because of its "no chocks needed" advertising claim, and it's equally apparent that, in most instances, some means of holding the vehicle on the levellers (chocks, handbrake, selection of a gear, wife's dainty foot, etc.) will be essential. To avoid future misunderstandings and criticisms, it might be better for Milenco just to drop the no-chocks claim from its advertising.

 

If you want strong heavyweight levellers that offer unusually high lift, then the Quattros are a good choice. But, if you want no-chocks/no handbrake/no gear-selection levellers, then the Quattros are going to disappoint.

 

(Personally, I don't find much difficulty driving up levellers, but this is probably due to the method I use and because I'm not too fussy about extreme levelling accuracy. I initially position the motorhome so that it is just starting to come on to the levellers. I then let it rock back clear of the levellers and then 'blast' it up the levellers in one fell swoop. This technique does risk driving over the end of the levellers and there's no certainty the vehicle will end up perfectly level at the first go. But I've got a fair bit of practice by now and I can usually get it near enough right without a second attempt. What I avoid like the plague is slipping the clutch to gain the position on the levellers that I'm looking for. This technique (if used vindictively as many motorcaravanners do) inevitably risks an overheated clutch and the higher the levellers' elevation and/or the steeper the levellers' slope the greater the risk, particularly when time is being spent playing about trying to get the vehicle perfectly level.)

[Rowan Lee]

Derek,

I was just trying to get up on the levels whilst avoiding running off the front. I've done that once and you come down with one heck of a crash! Reversing up is easier than driving forwards, but I still prefer the Fiamma levels even though they are not very high.

[Guest Tracker]

Ease of climbing on to ramps have be more to do with gear ratios than direction of travel?

 

My home made wooden ramps have a hinged 6" fold out flap of half inch marine ply onto which the wheels drive before climbing and that alone stops them skidding off into the distance.

[bigal]

Rowan Lee - 2010-05-19 9:45 AM

 

Derek,

I was just trying to get up on the levels whilst avoiding running off the front. I've done that once and you come down with one heck of a crash! Reversing up is easier than driving forwards, but I still prefer the Fiamma levels even though they are not very high.

High Rowan, I agree with Derek's observations to a great extent and also with those made by Tracker. Gear ratios do have a lot to do with climbing levellers, remember that reverse gear is the lowest gear available to you so that is probably why you find the method of reversing up the ramps easier.

I have just taken a profile of the front wheel/tyre with a piece of wire and compared it to the Milenco Quattro levellers that I have and it is obvious that the leveller profile is incorrect as far as pocketing the wheel is concerned. :-S B-)

[Tomo3090]

The couple of times I've had to use the Milenco Levellers I've found them to do the job I require of them, i.e. raise and level the van to an acceptable "levelness". I am not wanting a dead level van, a slight incline on the pitch and the blocks don't get used anyway, but one that is reasonable to live with for a while.

 

I would never dream of using any set of levellers without chocks behind at least one wheel, no matter what the manufacturer states in their blurb they can never guarantee this because of the differing states of terrain we take our vans to.

 

They, the Milenco levellers seem to be a superior product to the ordinary incline Fiamma ones I have and they do have their downside, i.e size and bulk, but overall I am satisfied with my purchase.

 

If you have bought them and are not satisfied why not try taking them back, outlining your lack of satisfaction, or selling them on e-bay? They have mostly sold out of them in the main outlets so it is a fair chance someone will buy them off you. I'm not getting at anyone here just suggesting a practical solution.

[Brambles]

"remember that reverse gear is the lowest gear available to you "

 

Not in a Ducato it ain't!!

[milenco]

Hi there this is Milenco again.

 

On our site here in Milton Keynes we have grass area with graduated inclines landscaped behind our factory.

 

I believe we are the only manufacture of levels in the world that have constructed such a facility.

 

We would be more than happy to demonstrate to you the pocketing effects of our levels on site here on a mutually agreeable time if a group of you would like to come down.

 

If you would like to do this please contact our office on 01908 220102 and propose dates for the event.

 

We will post the preferred date on the forum if we receive enough interest.

 

We look forward to your response.

[Guest Tracker]

Three cheers for Milenco - anyone living within range of Roundabout City who can take them up on their offer in the interests of science and progress!

 

Shame we are so far away or we would be happy to be involved even though we hardly ever use sites and even less ramps as a wonderful new product might just evolve that is the best thing since - err - Milenco ramps?!