Colin Leake Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 arthur49 - 2011-11-04 5:10 PM Apologies for raising an old thread but I went out today to check my spare wheel etc - came down and went back up nice and easy. Whilst I was at it thought I'd try removing a road wheel using the standard supplied tools - Peugeot Boxer X250. Well, I'm not unduly weak, but after strangling a b******, I could only budge one of the five nuts...........!!!!! Anybody else tried it? If so how did you do it? Arthur We carry and extending wheel wrench from Halfords and have helped two other drivers undo stuck nuts. If you buy one check the supplied sockets will fit your wheel nuts. On our last motorhome they did not so we had to buy an extra socket. When you have changed a wheel you should get the torque on the nuts checked as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 No problem with removing the spare from the carrier. Possibly because we've got an AutoTrail with the spare in a sensible and easily accessible carrier on the back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 And if you've got really tight nuts here's a tip to help loosen them... Before you jack up the vehicle place the wheel wrench on the nut at between 3 and 4 o'clock then use the jack to exert an upward force on the handle of the wrench. Instead of just having your strength or weight acting on the wrench you will now have the whole weight of the vehicle acting against the jack and hopefully the nut will loosen. As a very final resort you could try bouncing your weight on the vehicle to 'shock' the nut loose but be very careful you are clear of the wrench when things move! I must stress that this is to be used as a final resort and is not recommended as an everyday practice but you never know when it may be useful. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Another tip. Try tightening 1st to break the seal before loosening. Surpising to most, it usually works. p.s. Just recalled someone mentioning to get a torque wrench to undo....NEVER use a torque wrench to undo nuts, its a torque wrench and should be treated as a precision instrument..it s not a lever and should be kept for one purpose only ..final torquing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I agree with 'brambles' torque wrenches are for 'torqueing' . I have one of the 'Extending Wheel braces' only i got mine from Lidl, (when they used to sell quite good quality 'Extras' unlike the 'car boot sale' stuff they have recently). to 'break the seal'. Then only use the 'Torque wrench' to do the final 'bit' to the correct torque. (then release the pressure spring ! to keep it calibrated.). My Spare is Steel, but my other 4 are Alloy, SO, differant Torque setting, differant bolts. and Now, new 'Contis camping' on the Alloys, and still the 6 year old michelin camping in the spare cradle. (i'agree with Clive,and will replace the spare (if still unused) in a couple of years or so). With tyres at over a £100 each. a 'Suspect' spare is just as good as a 'spacesaver' which is all I have on my car. ;-) Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 We always "go through the motions for real" when we get a new van. First problem we found with our present tardis was that the flimsy T wrench supplied to remove the chrome nuts that hold the chrome wheel trims on just twisted. Having found a suitable box spanner and bar the next problem was the converter nuts fitted over two wheel nuts to hold on the wheel trim. Nothing supplied to shift these at all. Have also made up a beefy socket and extension bar plus a LONG high grade steel Tommy bar so that we can apply lots of undoing torque equally each side of the socket, so no chance of it comming off sidways. Carefull not to over-tighten when putting back on though. You can never rely on the fourth emergency service on a Saturday night half way up the alps where there are no people and no phone coverage! Oh, and cary a bag with some old clothes in it as well else you will surely get an earfull!. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Brambles,if a torque wrench is only for tightening nuts why is there a little lever on mine that reverses the ratcthet?. To undo my wheele nuts i set the torquewell above the figure i used to tighten them.I;ve Used this method for over 20 years with the same wrench no problem that i;m aware of. bAZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 bazooka - 2011-11-05 6:22 PM ...if a torque wrench is only for tightening nuts why is there a little lever on mine that reverses the ratcthet?... bAZ That's so you can torque up left-hand-threaded nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazooka Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Derick, you have a good point there.But if it works for me can i be doing wrong? Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The torque only works in one direction on a click wrench. The ratchet reverse is not really needed but is usual for wrenches to be made with a standard designed ratchet head and many applications require you to torque up to a figure release tension by undoing slightly and then retorque. This is using the tool for what it is designed for ..a torquing procedure. Not all wrenches will torque left hand threads. Some have a square bar for the socket you can push through to the other side and so turning in effect the wrench over 180 degrees reversing it. On others it requires the rathet assembly to be removed and reversed. Torsion bar wrenches normally work in both directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I've never had to change a wheel on one of our motorhomes but being a fit 70 year old I have changed two on other peoples motorhomes who could not manage it for themselves. I must admit that it is a pig of a job at the best of times and on each occasion I wrapped the spare up and put it in the motorhome rather than try and get it back into the cradle. I won't go into details but if I ever see someone with a flat on a soft wet grass pitch again I'm walking in the opposite direction and pretending not to notice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 bazooka - 2011-11-05 6:35 PM Derick, you have a good point there.But if it works for me can i be doing wrong? Baz I shouldn't think so ;-) ;-) I do just the same, though my largest torque-wrench is pretty close to its maximum setting when dealing with the 200Nm (about 148 lb/ft) required for my Transit's wheel-nuts. I never have any trouble loosening the Transit's wheel-nuts, but re-tightening the rear wheels' nuts is a challenge as the wheels are well inset from the body sides (so an extension bar is needed between wrench and socket) and, as I'm seriously 'right armed', achieving the necessary 200Nm pull is awkward. It definitely pays to wear thick protective gloves when tightening/loosening wheel-nuts as, if the tool you are using slips off the nut - or something breaks - there's a strong chance your hand will hit the wheel arch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-03-05 10:24 AM I've had my spare out it's on a winch cable but still a right pain no way would I attempt a wheel change at the side of the road, I'll just put the kettle on & wait for the breakdown truck. The spare is under the van so away from UV so should be OK for 10 years plus but I would still only use it as spare as mine iss a on a steel rim & the road wheels are alloy. Could change the tyres on the rims but will probably put winter tyres on when I change them. It might be woth checking if the bolts for alloys are the same as for steel, as many aren't including mine. (Mercedes sprinter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Brambles - 2011-11-05 12:49 AM Another tip. Try tightening 1st to break the seal before loosening. Surpising to most, it usually works. p.s. Just recalled someone mentioning to get a torque wrench to undo....NEVER use a torque wrench to undo nuts, its a torque wrench and should be treated as a precision instrument..it s not a lever and should be kept for one purpose only ..final torquing up.Unless you have a reversible wrench, which is capable of applying torque in both directions. Which mine does. The wrench doesn't know you're undoing a tight r/h thread or tightening a l/h thread. Mine is the one with the square drive that you push through and turn the wrench over to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I still stand by what I say, a torque wrench is a precision tool and not a wrecker bar, ok real name is breaker bar. Hence its name 'breaker bar' to break free locked nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Brambles - 2011-11-07 1:11 AM I still stand by what I say, a torque wrench is a precision tool and not a wrecker bar, ok real name is breaker bar. Hence its name 'breaker bar' to break free locked nuts. The purpose of a "breaker bar" is well described on Wikipedia and one of the tool's valuable capabilities is to protect ratchet-wrenches from damage. While the majority of torque-wrenches do include a ratchet mechanism, the latter plainly needs to be robust enough to cope with the maximum tightening torque that the wrench has been designed to apply. If a torque-wrench has been designed to tighten nuts to, say, 150 lb/ft, then employing that wrench to loosen any nut that was previously tightened to a torque-setting up to 150 lb/ft should be perfectly OK. The loosening technique Bazooka and I both use is to set the torque-wrench to a setting above what we know the wheel-nuts were tightened to (because it was us that carried out the tightening) before beginning the loosening process. I would be intrigued to hear the logic behind an argument that using a torque-wrench in that manner might prove harmful to the wrench. There's also the question of how many tools one can realistically carry in a motorhome. I have a breaker-bar and a torque-wrench (actually 3 torque-wrenches with dfferent maximum settings), but, as I know I can safely use the latter when changing a wheel, I see no reason to carry the former. Clearly, if a motorcaravanner has no idea what torque was used originally to tighten a wheel-nut or wheel-bolt, or there's any possibility that a nut/bolt is seized, or the torque-wrench being employed is under-specified for the task, then he/she would be better off using a breaker-bar for the initial loosening. But, if he/she does not appreciate such things, he/she really shouldn't be changing motorhome wheels. There was a "Changing a Wheel" article in MMM February 2011 (page 194). It's not explained why the article's author has stuck bits of coloured tape on the wheel-nuts (!!!), but the general principles are adequately covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 peter - 2011-11-06 9:12 PM lennyhb - 2011-03-05 10:24 AM I've had my spare out it's on a winch cable but still a right pain no way would I attempt a wheel change at the side of the road, I'll just put the kettle on & wait for the breakdown truck. The spare is under the van so away from UV so should be OK for 10 years plus but I would still only use it as spare as mine iss a on a steel rim & the road wheels are alloy. Could change the tyres on the rims but will probably put winter tyres on when I change them. It might be woth checking if the bolts for alloys are the same as for steel, as many aren't including mine. (Mercedes sprinter) I have a set of bolts for the steel wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Regarding using a torque wrench for undoing wheel nuts: It is of course quite OK to use a torque wrench up to the point that it clicks to indicate that the specified torque setting has been reached. You do however risk damaging it if you then continue to apply force beyond that point. Several torque wrenches that I've purchased have come with a specific warning concerning this. So, by all means set it to a very high torque and wrench away happily to loosen your wheel nuts. If you reach the wrench's set torque without the bolt loosening though, please stop - or don't rely on using it as a torque wrench again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If Brambles says that you must not undo nuts with a torque wrench, then it must be so. So don't do it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobK Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 148lb/ft !!! I would be the first to admit that I'm an old guy in the motor trade but is this a recognised torque for a wheel nut?? I seem to remember figures like 70lb/ft for engine main bearings.... and think of the stress they have. Could this 148 lb/ft be the hub bearing torque? I would not use a torque wrench to remove anything - long bars (half inch square) are for these purposes - use a good quality socket. Also .... a heavy smack on the bolt/nut with a hammer/smaller socket/extension bar is often effective in breaking the initial bond on a wheel nut /bolt which hasn't been removed for a long time (I've even used gentle heat from a small gas blowtorch - even the ones used by chefs to do the creme brulee !!! The first time and subsequent times I removed wheels, the Transit kit wheel key did the trick, which is why I query the 148ft.lb. During one puncture breakdown on a motorway, I watched with trepidation as the call-out mechanic replaced the nuts and then leaned heavily on a 3ft bar to tighten the nuts (mental arithmetic - 3ft x 200lbs). Replacing wheel nuts should only require a reasonably heavy "lean" on the vehicle wheel key. I have been unable at this stage to verify torque settings so await (and bow to) the responses with torque quotes!!! regards Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 That's probably newton metres Bob, as sprinter steels are 190>210 nm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Derek's figure for the Transit wheel nut torque is correct (or at least, it tallies with my owner's manual) :-) 200Nm (147.5 lb-ft) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Just checked my Peugeot manual & there is no mention of the torque setting for wheel nuts./studs Anyone know what they should be for 15" wheels. ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Flicka. 160Nm for 15 inch wheels and 14mm dia bolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thanks Brambles - I've been looking on the Boxer furum & could not find it there either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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