How leaval must a gas fridge be when running on gas?

[bolero boy]

Unemployed? Surely you're not looking for a job when you are able to combine swanning around Europe (and North America?) with lazing about in the garden for months on end.

How tough is this life, you must really be feeling the pinch. ;-)

Most people I know would love this type of lifestyle but may not even attain it after scores of years working.

I saw a cost breakdown of a couple who were doing a world tour and they had allowd £30 per day. I make that £10950 a year after tax, etc. If an unemployed person can afford to purchase and run a motorhome full time even at these baseline figures, why would anyone want to choose to work??

[Losos]

bolero boy - 2012-05-04 6:45 PM ...then the OP is most definitely having regular laughs as ALL of his/her posts assume the same tone.

 

Chris, so far he / she hasn't made any threatening, abusive, racist, or sexist remarks so why not just enjoy, spelling may be a bit iffy, and technical knowledge dire, but mention of unemployment always gets people posting which brings the forum to life so maybe he / she works for Warners, who knows, could it be that chap who writes for MMM about his travels in far flung places with fag ash Lil.

 

[bolero boy]

I did post this earlier..........

 

I love the posts, they amuse me. The spelling and grammar, they amaze me but there you go.

Alf/Fiona/Afiona - Keep 'em coming but I can't take you seriously anymore after this one.

 

...............so i do enjoy but dont like people to take the p*ss.

 

You can't be serious in thinking that this could be our Andy S???? lol

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I reckon this poster should write a book ( he/ she could employ a proof reader for the spelling for the purists out there ) the title could be Mr/Mrs Bean on their camper van travels. But at the end of the day I'm convinced it's more likely someone sitting walled up somewhere in the UK having a laugh and making a few of us laugh as well, which is no bad thing. ;-)

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2012-05-04 1:29 PM..............Not aware of any "legal" requirement to turn gas off. If there was, how would gas powered vehicles operate as the cylinder still has a gas pipe connection?

Alfiona is in France, and in France there is such a law for domestic gas supplies on leisure vehicles.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Brian Kirby - 2012-05-05 5:34 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2012-05-04 1:29 PM..............Not aware of any "legal" requirement to turn gas off. If there was, how would gas powered vehicles operate as the cylinder still has a gas pipe connection?

Alfiona is in France, .

 

Ah, but how can you be sure, I may be Alfiona..............and I'm nowhere near France. :D

[sshortcircuit]

Getting confused here Brian. I made my comment in response to Mike Hide's posting.

 

I also assume Alfoina refers to Plumbersvan. I gave up on this ages ago as it was not logical but my concern is this person cries wolf once to often.

 

On a serious note, are you saying there is a legal requirement to turn gas off in MHs in France?

[Brian Kirby]

Mostly, I reads these posts..................................................and then I laughs! :-)

 

These posts start in January 2011 under the name of Alf Stonehouse. They are a prolonged chapter of disasters that, IMO, could not befall any normal mortal even in that timescale. They have involved awnings, sat nav, heating, fridge, lost passport, exhaust system, water supply and Lord knows what else, all expressed in the same, nearly indecipherable style. All answered at considerable length by contributors eager to help, and almost invariably ignored by Alfiona.

 

Either Alfiona is the person they appear to be, in which case I am astounded that any relative however close and loving could be so rash as to lend their motorhome (on whose insurance, one wonders?) to such a continual liability with any expectation of ever getting it back, or s/he is a humorous, though rather time wasting, construct.

 

Either way I have long since concluded that responding is largely a waste of time, so now I just reads them..................................................... and then I laughs.

 

I shall continue doing this until Alfiona begins to say what s/he means in decipherable form (which I believe must be possible), and shows some sign of sufficient organisational capability to read, understand, and respond constructively to, the many helpfully intended responses s/he has received. So there, whoever you are! :-D

 

BTW, a spell checker will be unlikely to be of much help to you, because it is not your spelling that is wrong (the odd "leaval" excepted), it is your choice of (frequently correctly spelt) words!

[plumbersvan]

Gosh what have i said?Up to now i admit life has been interesting relaxed enjoyable.But once again i see my lifestyle dose not corrispond with what a camping carist s should be :'(

 

My Uncle is comeing back only for a short stay but wants to see me, and the camper :'( Things may well change,im hopeful they wont

 

I will have to think.perhaps create a mew memeber of this forum,that fits the post profile of an average campingcar ist?

 

I have learnt lots.Ill look for the suggested book.

 

Its been raining today and the sky is quite black

 

Fiona

 

 

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

plumbersvan - 2012-05-05 7:15 PM

 

Gosh what have i said?Up to now i admit life has been interesting relaxed enjoyable.But once again i see my lifestyle dose not corrispond with what a camping carist s should be :'(

 

My Uncle is comeing back only for a short stay but wants to see me, and the camper :'( Things may well change,im hopeful they wont

 

I will have to think.perhaps create a mew memeber of this forum,that fits the post profile of an average campingcar ist?

 

I have learnt lots.Ill look for the suggested book.

 

Its been raining today and the sky is quite black

 

Fiona

 

 

 

 

I fink yuo shuyd put us owt of owr misery and tel us iv yowr ALF OR fIona

 

It's been windy here today and the sky is quite grey

 

:-) :-)

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2012-05-05 5:59 PM.......................On a serious note, are you saying there is a legal requirement to turn gas off in MHs in France?

In short, yes, unless equipped with Truma DriveSafe/Secumotion or equivalent.

[flicka]

plumbersvan - 2012-05-05 2:13 PM

 

How did you get my email address?Its not shown

 

 

 

What is a "Bedfor blitz"?

 

It's a BedforD Blitz.

 

German model name (also Opel) for the UK Bedford CF model.

 

Shows a Hymer A Class built on the chassis.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_CF

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2012-05-05 5:34 PM

 

Alfiona is in France, and in France there is such a law for domestic gas supplies on leisure vehicles.

 

Can you provide a reference (preferable an online link) to this 'law', please?

 

I've been assured by 'experts' in France that there is a French regulation that demands that the gas reservoirs of leisure vehicles must be turned off while the vehicle is being driven. I've read in French motorhome magazines that this is so and it's repeatedly claimed on French motorhome forums that this is the case. However I've never been able to find any evidence of such a law and (as I said earlier) when the law's existence has been challenged on French forums, no details of the law have ever been forthcoming.

 

I can well believe that there is a national French law prohibiting operation of gas-fuelled appliances in a moving vehicle - Dometic's refrigerator handbooks imply this is the case and, when I asked Truma 10 years or so ago whether a gas-fuelled heater (eg. a Truma C-Series) could be used in a moving vehicle, I was told that this was forbidden in France. However, that's quite different from a national French law demanding that gas reservoirs must be turned off during travel.

 

SecuMotion and equivalent systems conform to an EU directive relating to gas-fuelled vehicle heaters and, consequently, can permit EU-wide legal usage of a gas heater in a moving vehicle. But that particular EU directive has no relevance to gas reservoirs. If there were a national French law demanding that a vehicle's gas reservoir must be turned off during travel, then the EU directive that relates to SecuMotion would not override the national French law. There would then be a logical paradox where a SecuMotion-equipped motorhome COULD legally use its gas-heater while being driven in France, but MAY NOT legally use it because the motorhome's gas reservoir must be turned off when the vehicle was being driven.

 

The following French forum entry may be of interest

 

http://voyageforum.com/forum/arreter_gaz_gpl_en_roulant_camping-car_D4309119/

 

It includes an extract from Truma's French-language guide for SecuMotion amd this paragraph is significantt:

 

"Les bouteilles à gaz non raccordées à l’installation de gaz doivent toujours être fermées et munies d’un bouchon de protection. Les bouteilles à gaz raccordées sont considérées comme des consommables et non pas comme des matières dangereuses (exemption ADR selon les paragraphes 1.1.3.1 et 1.1.3.2. e)."

 

I strongly suspect that the received-wisdom French law about turning off leisure-vehicle gas reservoirs while driving is, in fact, a misapplication of a French 'health anfd safety' law that relates to commercial transportation of gas bottles and that does, indeed, demand that gas canisters (even empty ones) must always be turned off while the transporting vehicle is in transit.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-06 9:51 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2012-05-05 5:34 PM

 

Alfiona is in France, and in France there is such a law for domestic gas supplies on leisure vehicles.

 

Can you provide a reference (preferable an online link) to this 'law', please?.......................

No, sorry Derek, I can't. Like you, I have relied upon the repeated assertions within the French motorhome press that such a law exists (probably within regulations, as opposed to specific legislation), and I've never bothered to explore it further. I'm afraid I tend to work, as far as possible, on the basis of "when in Rome", so if the French believe this to be the case, I assume that will also be what the French fuzz believe, and that is good enough for me! :-D

[crinklystarfish]

Brian Kirby - 2012-05-05 6:02 PM  Either Alfiona is the person they appear to be....or s/he is a humorous, though rather time wasting, construct.

I casually pondered this when I first revisited this time round and decided I didn't care.

If plumbersvan is Fiona, we have a hapless freeloader living in a battered motorhome who undoubtedly continually smells suspiciously of fish and whose life is complete when one of the few days in France it isn't wet and miserable coincides with the ability to go online.

If plumbersvan isn't Fiona, we have an intelligent and imaginative power tripper who clearly derives some kind of perverse satisfaction from the ability to trick, manipulate and exploit unsuspecting and reasonable people.

Either way the person who is plumbersvan almost certainly features on the autistic spectrum and probably pathologically needs the validation they receive from their postings.

Plus some good learning points come out of the threads.

I now know I may or may not be able to use an absorption fridge on a slight slope and it's probably illegal, or not, to leave my gas cylinder taps open when pootling around France.

[Derek Uzzell]

plumbersvan - 2012-05-05 2:13 PM

 

How did you get my email address?Its not shown

 

 

You provided the e-mail address I quoted in one of your previous postings - I've no idea whether it's valid.

[tonyishuk]

Brian Kirby - 2012-05-05 10:01 PM

 

sshortcircuit - 2012-05-05 5:59 PM.......................On a serious note, are you saying there is a legal requirement to turn gas off in MHs in France?

In short, yes, unless equipped with Truma DriveSafe/Secumotion or equivalent.

 

Just to add;

 

In the Rapido instructions for use with Truma DriveSafe/Secumotion, it is made very clear (in several languages) that if you travel with the gas heating on, all OTHER gas devices should be turned off at the gas taps / manifold. The taps switched back on when travelling has finished.

 

I not sure where that takes the discussion apart from leaky gas taps at the manifold :D

 

Rgds

[sshortcircuit]

Very disappointed that when asked to substantiate this law it would appear that this "French Law" it is just hearsay. I take a lot of guidance from postings on this forum and would hope that statements should be based on facts or answered in a way as make it clear that "it is my opinion" .

 

Don't think it will make much odds to the OP though :-D

[Brian Kirby]

sshortcircuit - 2012-05-06 6:18 PM

 

Very disappointed that when asked to substantiate this law it would appear that this "French Law" it is just hearsay. I take a lot of guidance from postings on this forum and would hope that statements should be based on facts or answered in a way as make it clear that "it is my opinion" .

 

Don't think it will make much odds to the OP though :-D

Context is all. Surely you must accept that what folk write on this, or any other forum, is opinion, or is based, in good faith, on what writers regard as reliable sources, and is intended to assist others. Few of us have the linguistic ability, or time, to comb French legal sources for "chapter and verse" on their laws. This is a motorhome forum, for goodness sake, not a forum of international lawyers! In fact, at times, it more closely resembles a forum of international fools. :-)

 

For my part, I have read repeated references to this requirement as a product of either regulation or legislation, in usually authoritative French motorhome magazines, on French forums, and on French technical suppliers' websites. So, why would I adopt the attitude that they must all be wrong, and seek to check the legal source (which, BTW, I have just spent a considerable amount of time doing without success, only gathering yet more assertions that there is such regulation or legislation)?

 

As previously stated, if the French appear to believe there is such a legal requirement, I assume their police will concur, and that is good enough for me. I pass on that information to alert others to French practise, for their benefit, not for mine. I do not post, nor claim to post, as an expert on French law, but as a motorhomer who has some familiarity with the French language. If you think the information is factually wrong, please state your basis for your view. I am more than happy to be corrected. In the meantime, feel free to disregard it as you see fit.

 

What I have discovered is that EC directives 2004/78/EC and 2006/119/EC are those that permit the use of devices such as Secumotion, but that they address only the use of heating appliances. Therefore, the use of gas for other purposes (such as the fridge), while travelling, is not permitted under these directives. Make of that what you will.

 

The directives say that providing the vehicle, the safety device, and the heating appliance, are all fully EC Type Approved, it is illegal for any member state to ban their sale or use. If any have only National Type Approval, other states seem free to ban or restrict as they see fit. Vehicles/installations pre-dating these directives may continue in use without modification, but remain subject to national law/regulation which, in effect, takes us full circle.

 

As I have reported, numerous, apparently reliable, sources state quite clearly, and repeatedly, that driving with the cylinder valve open, except where Secumotion or similar is fitted, is an offence in France. I have also seen references to similar legislation in Spain. I understand that Spanish laws relating to use of cylinder gas are among the most stringent in Europe, so such a restriction would not be a great surprise. I'm afraid you must just accept that for what it is worth, hearsay or not, and act accordingly.

[trooper]

Does it matter too much on the word of law, surely common sence is more important, and for the safety of the people in the motorhome , and others, Please don't drive with the gas on exept if correct safety devices

Are fitted.

[pepe63xnotuse]

trooper - 2012-05-07 5:20 PM

 

Does it matter too much on the word of law, surely common sence is more important, and for the safety of the people in the motorhome , and others, Please don't drive with the gas on exept if correct safety devices

Are fitted.

My thoughts exactly..

Just how badly designed must the access to the cylinder be...or how idle must the motorhomer be,that makes shuting the vale such a chore... *-)

[Derek Uzzell]

pepe63 - 2012-05-07 5:34 PM

 

trooper - 2012-05-07 5:20 PM

 

Does it matter too much on the word of law, surely common sence is more important, and for the safety of the people in the motorhome , and others, Please don't drive with the gas on exept if correct safety devices

Are fitted.

My thoughts exactly..

Just how badly designed must the access to the cylinder be...or how idle must the motorhomer be,that makes shuting the vale such a chore... *-)

 

Whether or not there is a French law demanding that gas-bottles be turned off before a motorhome is driven in that country has nothing to do with individuals' opinions of what they feel constitutes safe practice. Either there is such a law or there is not.

 

If there is such a law, then I can decide to abide by it or not. If there is no such law, then I do not need to make that decision, though (in this case) I may well decide that it's commonsense to always turn off gas-bottles before driving my motorhome. I want to know how I stand legally and I want facts. To date, facts have been in short supply.

 

Tonyishuk mentions advice given by Rapido. A good few years ago (well before the advent of Truma's SecuMotion system) I produced an English-language translation of their motorhome handbook for Pilote. In the "Before Setting Off" section Pilote instructed that the motorhome owner should turn off the gas-taps for all gas appliances. However no mention was made of turning off gas bottles.

 

People may believe that anyone driving a motorhome with its gas-bottles turned on must be idle, thick or Satan's Best Mate, but the situation is that (for 5 years or so) motorhomes have been fitted with the SecuMotion system that allows a suitable gas-fuelled heater to be operated legally throughout the EU while the motorhome is being driven. This appears to conflict directly with a national French law that (it is regularly claimed) demands that a motorhome's gas-bottles must be turned off while travelling. How's that work, then??

[sshortcircuit]

Thank you Derek for putting the point clearly. My posting did not suggest one way or another about switching gas off. I was only trying to establish what French law it was and this has not been defined.

[bolero boy]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-07 6:55 PM

 

..........................but the situation is that (for 5 years or so) motorhomes have been fitted with the SecuMotion system that allows a suitable gas-fuelled heater to be operated legally throughout the EU while the motorhome is being driven.

 

This appears to conflict directly with a national French law that (it is regularly claimed) demands that a motorhome's gas-bottles must be turned off while travelling. How's that work, then??

Oh no, we aren't slipping into another 'A-Frame' type discussion are we?

 

[Derek Uzzell]

bolero boy - 2012-05-08 12:20 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-05-07 6:55 PM

 

..........................but the situation is that (for 5 years or so) motorhomes have been fitted with the SecuMotion system that allows a suitable gas-fuelled heater to be operated legally throughout the EU while the motorhome is being driven.

 

This appears to conflict directly with a national French law that (it is regularly claimed) demands that a motorhome's gas-bottles must be turned off while travelling. How's that work, then??

Oh no, we aren't slipping into another 'A-Frame' type discussion are we?

 

With the A-frame issue and Spain (which is the main country of concern), there's no doubt that Spain has a national law forbidding one vehicle towing another. It's easy to identify the law and it's wording is unambiguous. Forum discussion essentially revolves around the EU legality of the Spanish law and/or the law's applicability to motorists from other EU-states that have no equivalent law.

 

The UK has no national law demanding that gas-bottles carried by leisure-vehicles must be turned off while the vehicle is being driven. Consequently, if there were a French 'gas-bottles-off' law, I guess it might be argued (though I wouldn't try it) that it would not apply to visiting UK (motor)caravanners. However, it seems to be impossible to identify whether or not a French gas-bottles-off law applying to leisure-vehicles actually exists. If the law exists then one might have a meaningful 'discussion' regarding its wording but, as things stand, there's no sure way of knowing whether a (motor)caravanner travelling in France with his/her leisure-vehicle's gas-bottles not turned off (either accidentally or deliberately) is breaking a French law.

 

I couldn't care less about the A-frame argument as I'm never going to tow a car.

 

I'm unconcerned about French national laws relating to speed-camera warning devices, or carriage of a breathalyser/triangle/ high-viz jacket in my vehicle. In those cases I know there are laws and I can read the wording of the laws if I so wish.

 

But I don't know if there's a French 'gas-bottles-off' law and - because I don't turn off my motorhome's gas-bottles while I'm travelling in France - I'd naturally prefer it if there were no such law. If there is a law and (as plumbersvan suggests on another thread) "... it costs 90€ if the gas is not off..." I would definitely put compliance with that law before convenience. If there is not, then I'll continue to travel with my motorhome's gas-bottles turned on because it suits me to do so.