New bedroom tax

[nightrider]

What do you think of the new bedroom tax that will be initiated in April?

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

I haven't caught up on the actual details to be honest..Is it a "tax"?

 

...or is it that those who are in "council houses" or receive housing benefit etc,and are in bigger houses than their actual "needs",will now need to fund the surplus bedrooms themselves....?

 

If it is,it seems fair enough to me.

 

If they're in a "council house" and no longer meet the requirements that enabled them to qualify for it in the first place,then I would've thought paying extra for "surplus bedrooms" was getting off light...

 

Some would say they should move to a suitably sized residence...and free up the house for those who need it.

 

We're in a private rented 2 bedroom bungalow..we would love 3-4 bedroom house but we can't afford it,so we don't have one! ;-)

[Tracker]

At the risk of sounding unkind, the privilege of having spare rooms should belong to those who have made the effort and bought their own home.

 

Those with unused extra rooms to spare might consider being a little less selfish?

[colin]

Take gf's aunt, she lives alone in a semi detached house, with her failing mobility she would be happy to move to a small bungalow, not a hope in hell, the local council and housing asociation are busy knocking down flats and bungalows and replacing them with houses, great for families but where do the widows/widowers live? Well an increasing number are now forced to live in the larger family homes.

[malc d]

Tracker - 2013-01-30 12:51 PM

 

At the risk of sounding unkind, the privilege of having spare rooms should belong to those who have made the effort and bought their own home.

 

 

 

Or, to put it another way, those who have been fortunate enough in life to be able to buy their own homes.

[Tracker]

malc d - 2013-01-30 1:32 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-01-30 12:51 PM

 

At the risk of sounding unkind, the privilege of having spare rooms should belong to those who have made the effort and bought their own home.

 

Or, to put it another way, those who have been fortunate enough in life to be able to buy their own homes.

 

You can call it fortunate or you can call it self reliance or whatever you like but as I see it social housing is allocated according to needs and if the needs change so should the allocation?

 

If you had a young family and needed social housing how would you feel to learn that some of the two and three bed homes were occupied by couples or lone people and all that was available for you was a one bed flat?

[Mel B]

My Dad passed away at the end of November last year, up until that point he occupied our family home, which was a 4 bedroomed council house, on his own for 22 years! It was rediculous and it certainly did NOT meet his needs, however, he would NOT consider moving out of it at all. Had he been REQUIRED to move out to smaller more suitable accommodation not only would a large family have benefitted from what was probably and desparately needed home, but his quality of life would certainly have been much improved as at the end he was only living downstairs, using the dining room as his bedroom and rarely put the heating on.

 

The only reason he had left it was due to being told by the medical profession that he could not go back there as he couldn't look after himself (about 2 months before he died) and needed to go into residential care and the wouldn't therefore send him back home. I'm sure if he had moved out to something better for him when he was still active it would have done him the world of good - in the end it was his decision and he was a fool to himself. As he wasn't on any means-tested benefits, even if the change was in existance when he was alive, it still wouldn't have had any efffect on him - if it had he MIGHT have moved as he was a tight s*d with money! I wish there had been a way of making him move out but unfortunately there wasn't.

 

[colin]

A couple of reads I've had today

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/patrick-butler-cuts-blog/2013/jan/16/welfare-reform-bedroom-tax-policy-that-has-no-logic

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/health/carer-to-be-hit-by-introduction-of-bedroom-tax-1-4711733

One thing I've run out of patience researching is MP's second home expences, where a MP is paid expences for a second home will these be cut if the home has more bedrooms than needed? I'm sure they will be after all "whe're all in this together"

[Tracker]

For elderly and infirm people, especially those who have lived in the same house for many years the thought of change can be quite terrifying.

It therefore needs to be handled with great care and sensitivity to ensure that the people understand fully the reasons and what will happen in order that the move goes smoothly and without any extra stress and the new home should of course be properly set up and appropriate for their immediate needs prior to moving in.

 

[RogerC]

As I see it this has more to it than simply getting people to 'swap/downsize/tax' homes that have more space than is required.  Yes it would be ideal to have people in 'social housing' living in properties appropriate to the number of people in that household.  It would certainly free up those needed for growing families who find themselves in cramped conditions.......but consider those of the older generation who have lived in the same 'family home' for decades.  They probably raised their family there, saw their children grow up, go to school, marry, and of course their circle of friends are based around their home......in essence the house is the centre of their lives both working and social.

 

Now because the house is deemed too big they have to move and most likely away from the area they have known all their lives, possibly away from their work and most certainly away from their life long friends.  Consider how you would feel being 'forced' to do this?  The stress and emotional strain would be horrendous.

 

The situation is not ideal but to make people move because of the lack of appropriate housing stock is disgraceful.  When it became possible to buy your council house it was lauded as a great move forward with the caveat that the proceeds from such sales would go towards building more social housing..............haha (sarcastic)....yet another promise not fulfilled by regional/local governments and now it's 'Joe Public' getting it in the neck again.

 

As for owning your own home, I am fortunate to have been in the position to do so but there are millions out there that simply do not have the opportunity to do so because of earnings/health etc.  In Cornwall for instance the wages are so low it is impossible for the majority of younger element to ever buy their own home.....it is a matter of regional economics.

 

As for the introduction of this tax.....well it's just another ill thought out diktat coming from a government that is so out of touch it is frightening.

 

[Tracker]

I grew up in one but I've never rented a council house so I don't know - but when you sign up for it do they tell you that it is a home for life, and is that written into the housing agreement - I assume there is some sort of long term agreement or contract setting out the responsibilities and rights of both parties?

 

We keep hearing about the benefits of not owning your own home what with repairs, council tax, insurance, negative equity, mortgages, etc blighting our lives - well here is one very good reason to secure your own future and be independent of authority - at least as far as your home goes.

 

What price peace of mind?

 

You can't have it all ways - but I just love not paying rent!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Mel B - 2013-01-30 2:07 PM

 

My Dad passed away at the end of November last year, up until that point he occupied our family home, which was a 4 bedroomed council house, on his own for 22 years! It was rediculous and it certainly did NOT meet his needs, however, he would NOT consider moving out of it at all. Had he been REQUIRED to move out to smaller more suitable accommodation not only would a large family have benefitted from what was probably and desparately needed home, but his quality of life would certainly have been much improved as at the end he was only living downstairs, using the dining room as his bedroom and rarely put the heating on.

 

The only reason he had left it was due to being told by the medical profession that he could not go back there as he couldn't look after himself (about 2 months before he died) and needed to go into residential care and the wouldn't therefore send him back home. I'm sure if he had moved out to something better for him when he was still active it would have done him the world of good - in the end it was his decision and he was a fool to himself. As he wasn't on any means-tested benefits, even if the change was in existance when he was alive, it still wouldn't have had any efffect on him - if it had he MIGHT have moved as he was a tight s*d with money! I wish there had been a way of making him move out but unfortunately there wasn't.

 

Whilst I take your point about your father, are you not the same lady who wants her Mum of 87 presumably having split from her husband 22 years ago, who both then presumably had council housing, to buy her present council flat as a future investment for you, despite being on housing benefit and some benefits (pension credit and council tax benefit) as you said in a previous post, until her windfall ( that I hope you've told the DWP about ) with the 80 grand she has just come in too, and not to leave it for someone on the council list to downsize too who would be just as desperate for a home to move in to as I guess your mother was, talk about hypocrisy, unbelievable.

.

[nightrider]

RogerC - 2013-01-30 3:39 PMAs I see it this has more to it than simply getting people to 'swap/downsize/tax' homes that have more space than is required.  Yes it would be ideal to have people in 'social housing' living in properties appropriate to the number of people in that household.  It would certainly free up those needed for growing families who find themselves in cramped conditions.......but consider those of the older generation who have lived in the same 'family home' for decades.  They probably raised their family there, saw their children grow up, go to school, marry, and of course their circle of friends are based around their home......in essence the house is the centre of their lives both working and social.

 

Now because the house is deemed too big they have to move and most likely away from the area they have known all their lives, possibly away from their work and most certainly away from their life long friends.  Consider how you would feel being 'forced' to do this?  The stress and emotional strain would be horrendous.

 

The situation is not ideal but to make people move because of the lack of appropriate housing stock is disgraceful.  When it became possible to buy your council house it was lauded as a great move forward with the caveat that the proceeds from such sales would go towards building more social housing..............haha (sarcastic)....yet another promise not fulfilled by regional/local governments and now it's 'Joe Public' getting it in the neck again.

 

As for owning your own home, I am fortunate to have been in the position to do so but there are millions out there that simply do not have the opportunity to do so because of earnings/health etc.  In Cornwall for instance the wages are so low it is impossible for the majority of younger element to ever buy their own home.....it is a matter of regional economics.

 

As for the introduction of this tax.....well it's just another ill thought out diktat coming from a government that is so out of touch it is frightening.

Roger,Dont rest on your laurels because you have bought and paid for your own home, this bedroom "tax" aimed at people claiming welfare benefits who live in council houses are not the only target? this is only an explorety move, it has been mentioned in high circles to hit the private sector to make them down size, I have been following this situation for a number of years now.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

1footinthegrave - 2013-01-30 5:22 PM

 

Mel B - 2013-01-30 2:07 PM

 

My Dad passed away at the end of November last year, up until that point he occupied our family home, which was a 4 bedroomed council house, on his own for 22 years! It was rediculous and it certainly did NOT meet his needs, however, he would NOT consider moving out of it at all. Had he been REQUIRED to move out to smaller more suitable accommodation not only would a large family have benefitted from what was probably and desparately needed home, but his quality of life would certainly have been much improved as at the end he was only living downstairs, using the dining room as his bedroom and rarely put the heating on.

 

The only reason he had left it was due to being told by the medical profession that he could not go back there as he couldn't look after himself (about 2 months before he died) and needed to go into residential care and the wouldn't therefore send him back home. I'm sure if he had moved out to something better for him when he was still active it would have done him the world of good - in the end it was his decision and he was a fool to himself. As he wasn't on any means-tested benefits, even if the change was in existance when he was alive, it still wouldn't have had any efffect on him - if it had he MIGHT have moved as he was a tight s*d with money! I wish there had been a way of making him move out but unfortunately there wasn't.

 

Whilst I take your point about your father, are you not the same lady who wants her Mum of 87 presumably having split from her husband 22 years ago, who both then presumably had council housing, to buy her present council flat as a future investment for you, despite being on housing benefit and some benefits (pension credit and council tax benefit) as you said in a previous post, until her windfall ( that I hope you've told the DWP about ) with the 80 grand she has just come in too, and not to leave it for someone on the council list to downsize too who would be just as desperate for a home to move in to as I guess your mother was, talk about hypocrisy, unbelievable.

.

 

oops double post

 

 

[Basil]

My feelings are that at the end of the day 'Social Housing' is, or should be, only 'borrowed' whilst it is needed for the occupants it was designed for.

Mostly it is paid for from the taxation of others so I see no reason why those that occupy them should not, either, move to somewhere more suited to their current situation or if they don't wish to move then be charged for the extra unused portion by removal of some of the money being paid by others that they may live there in the first place. There are too many nowdays who rely on others to support them I for one support the current regimes efforts to change this.

 

Bas

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I think they should all be rounded up and shot, there simply is not other solution because there simply is NOWHERE for them to go. There are virtually NO single bedroomed council housing stock, it was NEVER built.

 

And one less place if Mel b's plan comes to fruition which in case you missed it is to get her mother to buy her council flat, paid up to now out of housing benefit, and other benefits, before coming in to £80000, then keep it as an investment for herself.

 

Why am I not surprised of the sentiments expressed here coming as it does from M/home owners, lets hope the world never caves in for you, like the poor buggers at Jessops amongst reams of others, or folk who have lost everything including their homes in the last decade with the economic downturn, mind you I'd guess you lot would settle for life in a hostel, with bugger all and living on job seekers allowance of £70 a week, yes of course you would.. >:-(

 

You should all remember, there but for the grace of God.......................

[pepe63xnotuse]

RogerC - 2013-01-30 3:39 PM.......but consider those of the older generation who have lived in the same 'family home' for decades.  They probably raised their family there, saw their children grow up, go to school, marry, and of course their circle of friends are based around their home......in essence the house is the centre of their lives both working and social.

 

Now because the house is deemed too big they have to move and most likely away from the area they have known all their lives, possibly away from their work and most certainly away from their life long friends.  Consider how you would feel being 'forced' to do this?  The stress and emotional strain would be horrendous.

 

The situation is not ideal but to make people move because of the lack of appropriate housing stock is disgraceful.

But surely that isn't any worse than it is for the folk who had bought the homes,brought their kids up in it...and then sold up, inorder to move into a smaller,more appropriate home?.....and it's certainly no worse than those who've had to sell/remortgage their homes to pay for their Residential/Nursing/Personal care needs.. :-S

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

pepe63 - 2013-01-30 6:43 PM

RogerC - 2013-01-30 3:39 PM.......but consider those of the older generation who have lived in the same 'family home' for decades.  They probably raised their family there, saw their children grow up, go to school, marry, and of course their circle of friends are based around their home......in essence the house is the centre of their lives both working and social.

 

Now because the house is deemed too big they have to move and most likely away from the area they have known all their lives, possibly away from their work and most certainly away from their life long friends.  Consider how you would feel being 'forced' to do this?  The stress and emotional strain would be horrendous.

 

The situation is not ideal but to make people move because of the lack of appropriate housing stock is disgraceful.

But surely that isn't any worse than it is for the folk who had bought the homes,brought their kids up in it...and then selling up inorder to move into a smaller,more appropriate home?.....and it's certainly no worse than those who've had to sell their homes to pay for residential/nursing care bills..! :-S

They have CHOICE, that's the difference, there are virtually no single bedroomed council housing stock for people to move to, just round them up and shoot them as I said above, after all for the most part they were only cannon fodder sweeping our roads, and looking after our campsites on minimum wage. >:-(Or buy your Mums council flat as Mel b proposes as an investment for herself

[Tracker]

Mel, as far as I can see has been open and upfront about some very personal family details and I don't think that one foot in his mouth is at all justified in his continual rants and snide attacks on her.

 

If anyone, Mel included, makes the best of all legal options available to them and their family to gain capital or income to secure their own family then very good luck to them - and I suspect everyone else on here would do exactly the same if the situation arose.

 

So come on - give the lass a break please.

 

 

[donna miller]

Me thinks 1foot is on the blob, he's awfully tetchy and angry just lately.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Yes agree 1foot' it is their choice...but it's a choice that they paid to have..

 

But I wasn't aware that the government were going to start throwing folk out onto the street...just expecting them to fund any bedrooms that they don't "need"..

 

And if these folk are elderly..did these "spare" bedrooms suddenly appear?...did their kids "suddenly" get married and move out overnight?

No.. they didn't.They've probably been rattling around in a 3-4 bed' council house for the last 20-30+ years..That's plenty of time to sort something more approriate for when they got older...

The fact is they knew they were on a good thing,so they stayed put and kept quiet..but the system allowed them to do so....

Personally I think once folk no longer meet the criteria that gained them the council house in the first place(..be it increased income or kids grown up and moved out, etc),then at the least,they should be paying the market rate for the rent...

 

(..and don't joke about rounding folk up and shooting 'em...the Tories are saving that for their second term... ;-) )

[donna miller]

I agree that single folks and even couples should not tie up 3 or 4 bedroomed houses when there are families who are more deserving, but let's look at it a little deeper, this situation has only recently materialised and we perhaps should be questioning the reason why.

It does not take a genius to realise that many of the Eastern European/Asian immigrants tend to have larger families than us in the UK, So as we now seem to have a legal duty to house these immigrants thanks to EU rulings, it stands to reason that large family houses are at a premium, unfortunately it is the indiginous folk of this country who are going to be the ones to suffer.

But back to the original point, it's alright local authorities demanding that people with spare bedrooms should either pay up or downsize, but are the authorities going to guarantee that they will move the tenants to an area as good as where they move from, and not into hard to let flats in the middle of run down suburbs.

 

 

One last thing;

 

The government party that most of you on here seem to vote for, introduced the right for every tenant to buy their council house, usually at a vastly reduced price, so nobody who voted Tory or never bothered to vote has the right to pass judgement on Mel for exercising that right, regardless of whether her Mum is in a 1 bedroom flat or a 6 bedroom detached house.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

donna miller - 2013-01-30 7:27 PM

 

Me thinks 1foot is on the blob, he's awfully tetchy and angry just lately.

 

The right to buy was a catastrophic mistake, that's why we are where we are. there are no bloody council houses, but a good few bus shelters, they'll do wont they ?

 

Yes I'm bloody fuming, when some think it perfectly acceptable to look at a council provided and subsided flat for years as an opportunity to feather their own nest I can't imagine any one would not be angry, this is all about playing to the crowd about benefit scroungers, and making many of them even poorer through no fault in many cases of their own, most of us spend more on a tank of diesel than they get to live on all week, so go on you lot where are they suppose to live, going to give them a front room of yours ?

 

And someone I know will be even more impoverished as a result of this, my bloody daughter whose partner just walked out on her after ten years leaving her with two kids of 3 and 9, and yes she does work, but believe me her life is one long bloody struggle, paying almost as much to the childminder as she earns, and us in our late sixties trying to pick up the pieces, and she really doesn't deserve it, worked full time since leaving school, now at 39 it's all gone tits up. Like I said there but for the grace of God go I,

 

[nightrider]

Tory MP Mark Wright admits he had not heard of the bedroom tax even though he voted in favour of it???? Whats that all about then????

[pepe63xnotuse]

We wouldn't have half of these housing issues if,

 

a) They hadn't sold off the council houses..

 

and

 

b) The bl**dy "Buy to let" brigade,didn't help 'emselves to the affordable housing and therefore driving the prices up!

 

:-S