From caravan to motorhome - advice please.

[candapack]

We have towed a caravan for 25 years, always in the UK. Now retired, we want to explore Europe, and think it would be easier with a motorhome. We have done a fair bit of research, but can't seem to pin down what would be the "right" van for us - despite the bewildering choice available.

Here's what we want; Max 6m. long; Kitchen with 3/4 burner hob, grill/oven/microwave and fridge/freezer; U-shaped rear lounge, big enough to be used as 2 single beds or a nice big double.

Bathroom with shower etc.

AND, plenty storage for all the stuff we take that currently lives in the car - bike panniers, rucksacks, boots, golf clubs and trollies etc etc.

Used vans only, budget c. £35k.

Any suggestions?

[snowie]

Hi and welcome Candapack;

moving from a caravan to a motorhome I would go for a Coachbuilt; I think a PVC might be a step too far. You have experience of a wide vehicle combination I guess, so go for a bit more space.

Just my opinion, you understand

alan b

[BGD]

These are my personal thoughts only, but I reckon you can spend a lot less than that and get a VERY tidy motorhome that should meet your needs.

 

Also if you buy one that isn't built on the "latest" X250 version of the Fiat Ducato, you avoid a lot of potential problems with EGR valves, catalytic converters et al; parts will be a lot cheaper, servicing will be easier and cheaper, and you can get it repaired anywhere in mainland Europe.

In addition, the cost of depreciation....which is by FAR the biggest cost in owning/running a motorhome....will be a lot less.

Say a year 2000 to 2006 Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD, with manual gearbox perhaps.

 

For oodles of storage space I'd suggest you consider an overcab bed model; not to ever use the bed there, but because the overcab area thus provides masses of inside storage space.

I'd also suggest you maybe think about getting a notional "6-berth", even if there are just two of you....then you have the ability to use the rear U shaped lounge as two permanently made up single beds, or even as a permanently made up double; whilst using the dinette as seating.

 

 

Something like this maybe:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUTO-TRAIL-APACHE-SE-6-BERTH-SPACIOUS-U-SHAPED-LOUNGE-GOOD-CONDITION-/121138847345?

pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item1c34701e71

 

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACE-Firenze-six-berth-motorhome-U-shaped-lounge-overcab-bed-ir-suspension-awning-/121130275357?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item1c33ed521d

 

 

 

 

There are just the two of us, and we've got a Benimar 6000 only very slightly different to this one, on the 2.8JTD Fiat Ducato chassiscab; and we absolutely love it.

We spend a total of up to 25 weeks per touring all over mainland Europe in it. Totally bulletproof engine and mechanicals, simple to self-service (if you want to); and loads of space for the two of us (plus small dog) to live and store all our stuff:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Benimar-Europe-6000ST-6-berth-Motorhome-with-U-shaped-rear-lounge-/261235096225?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item3cd2d33aa1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[candapack]

Thanks for these - well worth considering. Has anyone got any advice on what would meet our requirements in a low-profile?

Which I should have mentioned in the first place, apologies.

 

 

[Keithl]

candapack - 2013-07-07 3:55 PM

Has anyone got any advice on what would meet our requirements in a low-profile?

 

 

I was going to suggest similar to Bruce, we have a six berth AutoTrail Cheyenne on a 2004 Mercedes chassis and it is absolutely fantastic for the 2 of us.

 

So now the question, why do you want to limit yourselves to a low profile? We initially had the same intention until we saw the Cheyenne (with overcab bed I hasten to add) and fell in love with it. It is a fraction over 3 meters high and has never caused us a problem which would not have also caused a problem to a low profile.

 

I seriously think you will be limiting your options if you do not look at overcabs.

 

Keith.

[BGD]

candapack - 2013-07-07 4:55 PM

 

Thanks for these - well worth considering. Has anyone got any advice on what would meet our requirements in a low-profile?

Which I should have mentioned in the first place, apologies.

 

 

 

 

If you're going to tour round Europe, for any significant length of time, and you want to do it with any significant amount of comfort, you're going to want storage space.

LOTS of it. Not just a few cupboards and cubbyholes.

You're also going to want room to move around/live in the vehicle for extended periods.

 

We considered a low profile. Sexy on paper and in a show-room.

 

But when we actually compared the real-world useability of an overcab versus low profile for actually living in, the massive additional storage space of the overcab (or the much-reduced storage of a low-profile) made an overcab style motorhome a BIG winner for us.

 

You'll not get into car parks with height barriers even in a low-profile, and any difference in fuel economy is utterly negligible in the scheme of the whole overall buy/insure/maintain/run/depreciate financial equation

 

In addition, another unexpected big benefit of our overcab is that the overhang of the overcab part acts to shade the windscreen wonderfully when driving/parked anywhere sunny/hot...and mainland Europe gets pretty sunny at times!......and keeps us and the inside of the vehicle A LOT cooler than a low profile or A-class, or Panel-van-conversion ("PVC") type of vehicle.

 

[PJay]

As has been stated an over cab means storage. We have a 5 berth which is plenty big enough for two of us for up to 3 months at a time. If you want to carry Golf clubs, bikes trolly etc, be aware of WEIGHT. I would think you would need a garage for the bulky stuff you intend to carry. We have a back box as we dont have bikes so that takes chairs , table ground sheets, etc. Remember that all has to fit into one vehicle, not a caravan AND car

PJay

[Mel B]

Hi and welcome to the mad house. :-D

 

Before you change consider how you currently use your caravan and how you intend to use a motorhome.

 

If you stay on sites all the time, not moving for a week or more, then it may be more sensible to stay with a caravan, which would still allow you to have a car to tootle around during the day to golf courses, shops etc.

 

If you intend to move around every few days and see things as you travel and aren't bothered about having to take a MH out when you want to go shopping, to golf courses etc, then a MH may suit you better.

 

There are many other reasons why you should consider each in on their own merit, but the above is a simplified but very pertinent initial consideration. Others have thought that changing to a MH is what they should/need to do for seeing more of mainland Europe, but depending on how much you intend to travel / how long you are going to be doing it for / how 'static' you are likely to be, it isn't always the case.

 

Sorry if I'm teaching you to 'suck eggs' but better to suck another than make an expensive mistake! :D

[Brock]

I think you are asking for too much. You might find a coachbuilt with an overcab area within 6m with storage but that is probably the best you'll find. You will almost certainly have to buy a continental built coachbuilt. There are a few small a-class motohomes at 6m but storage space will be limited despite some of them having garages. A Panel Van Conversion is likely to be 6m long but will be short of storage space. Your caravan must have been a lot longer than 6m so I wonder why the restriction on length.

 

Given what you propose to take, you might also need more than a 3500 kg chassis - motorhomes have similar problems with staying within a weight limit as caravans do.

 

One of the reasons we changed from caravanning to motorhoming was to stop carting so much stuff with us.

 

I think you ought to do a little more research on motorhoming before you start looking for a van. That will help you come to terms with the compromises you will need to make.

 

All that aside, a motorhome - which could be a LHD version if you are spending most of your time on the continent - would be a better bet for touring if you do find one that you can live with. Good luck on your search, at least you've started asking questions.

[Tony Jones]

Hi Candapack, and welcome - not only to the froum, but the the motorhome way of life!

 

The only "caution" I'd add to all the good advice above is, make sure you understand what the MH way of life IS, and that you really do intend genuine "touring." By which I mean, moving on regularly, enjoying whatever experiences you have along the way, and looking for somehwere to stop when it's time to turn in.

I only emphasise this because as caravanners you'll be used to a very different style, which often involves parking the caravan for several days somewhere in the area you want to spend time in, and using the car to run around. If you're expecting to do the same sort of thing with a motorhime, you're likely to find yourself back on here soon, arguing with Bruce (BGD) and others about the whole business of towing a car behind!

 

Motorhoming is certainly THE way to "do Europe," but you need to understand it's a different kind of touring. If you're ready for that, you'll have a great time. Enjoy it!

[candapack]

Thanks for all the advice. Yes, it seems I was being swayed by the looks of low-profiles, at the expense of more practical matters.

Have we fully considered the differences in usage between caravans and motorhomes? We think so, but maybe a bit more thought is needed.

Anyway, it's early days for us, so we'll start having a look at some overcabs - looking is a lot of fun in itself.

Thanks again!

 

[Mel B]

As has been mentioned briefly above, one thing to think about is the chassis weight of any motorhome you look at and the payload.

 

Whilst at present you can move any excess equipment etc from your caravan to you car to keep the weight down in the caravan, when you only have a MH you will not have this option so before going any further it might be an idea to do the following:

 

1) Get your caravan ready in 'going on holiday' trim, with food, clothes and everything else you would normally take (including your golf clubs, trolleys, shoes, balls ...).

 

2) Next remove all of the caravan specific stuff (water barrel, waste water container, and anything else you would normally only use with a caravan).

 

3) Now look at what is left and weed out anything that you wouldn't then want to take in a MH with you.

 

4) Get your scales out and weigh everything that is left ... including both yourself and your wife (yes ... be brave, you MUST do it!)

 

- this will give you the minimum weight you'll expect a MH to be able to carry for your personal needs but that's not the minimum as you'll need to add to this the weight of a full fuel tank, fresh water tank, and full gas bottles (fuel and water approx 1 litre = 1 kg; gas weight will depending on the size/number of bottles so you'll have to work that out).

 

What you'll also have to be careful of is that any equipment fitted to a MH will also have to be deducted from payload figures. Manufacturers publish (well most do!) the payload of their vehicles but they can be given in various ways so check them carefully, especially what is, and more importantly what is NOT included!

 

One other thing you haven't mentioned is passengers ... if you intend to carry some you need to consider a layout with additional travel seats/seatbelts. :-S

[lennyhb]

We were tuggers for over 20 before changing 5 years ago, no way we would ever consider a caravan again.

 

What you are looking for in a 6m van is near on impossible in low profile unless you go for some of the latest models way above your budget.

 

You mention carting golf clubs and a lot of other kit so need to look at payload, different manufacturers quote it different ways, you need to define whats included in the mass in running order figure. Some include driver at 75kg, 90% water, gas & fuel, German vans it's 75kg driver, 90% fuel, 20Lt water & 11kg aluminum gas bottle (approx 16kg)

 

You mention a U shape lounge I suspect this is a hang over from caravaning days, personally I would never consider a van without a fixed bed and fixed table. Pattern of use tends to be different in a Motorhome we find we rarely spend more than one or two nights in the same place, last thing we want to do is mess about making beds & putting up tables every day.

 

If you are going to spend a lot of time in mainland Europe probably better with a LHD, take a look at mobile.de nearly every dealer in Germany lists their stock.

[Brian Kirby]

One further point is that I think your choice of layout is probably an extension of your caravanning experience. That (admittedly very popular) convertible U shaped rear lounge robs you of a large volume of useful storage space that other layouts provide. Personally, I'm not persuaded by the arguments in favour of Luton bodies, because they make the vans taller - usually over 3.0 metres - which will make (especially French) toll roads sharply more expensive.

I can't comment from experience on the relative economics of low-profile versus Luton bodies, but instinctively that greater frontal area (which I believe is the major determinant of fuel consumption) must have its effect. All motorhomes are a bit like barn doors, but shoving a larger barn door around must take more energy, and hence more fuel.

Several posters have questioned your 6.0 metre target length, though I broadly agree with your choice. We started motorhoming in 2005, and have had two vans so far, both being 6.0 metre vans, at 3.4 and 3.5 tonnes respectively. The point here is the the smaller van is lighter, so payload benefits. Larger vans do offer more storage space, which you frequently can't fully use because of payload limitation.

This whole field is fraught with similar compromises, which is what makes striking the right balance so difficult, but so rewarding when one gets it "right".

I would add width as a further consideration, depending on where you want to go, as many current vans are 2.3 or 2.35 metres wide and these can get a bit uncomfortably "tight" in smaller towns and villages around Europe.

There is a somewhat smaller range of motorhomes that keep width to 2.1 or 2.15, some 2.2, metres wide and, although the narrower body obviously results in less internal width, interior layouts need not be severely compromised, while the lack of external bulk can make for much more comfortable "off the beaten track" exploring.

Final two points. First, hire one before you buy, because it is surprisingly difficult to imagine how motorhoming changes your perspective on how you prefer to travel. Second, go here and buy this book: http://tinyurl.com/8973u2p - it is packed with information and may well save you making an expensive (and very common) mistake choosing your first motorhome. Take your time, don't rush your decision, be prepared to be flexible, and trawl the magazines for reviews etc. Motorhomes are similar to caravans, but in practise they are quite different, and the differences need understanding to maximise the benefits. Good luck.

[lennyhb]

Brian makes the point of hiring before you buy, we hired twice before buying, and found out what we thought was a good layout we didn't get on with (double bed over garage). We ended with a fixed French bed in a similar layout to our last caravan.

We hired in Germany as it was half the price of Hiring in the UK.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Save some money from your 35k budget and get something like this?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-FORD-TRANSIT-CHAUSSON-WELCOME-27-6-BERTH-T135-350-/190867242207?pt=UK_Campers_Caravans_Motorhomes&hash=item2c7092fcdf

 

...it's a fair bit of MH for the money... ;-)

 

(..although I think it may be 3850kg?..which I believe cause "problems"(additional costs?)on the continent?)

 

Over the 6m that you said you wanted...but I would've thought the type of thing worth looking at, all the same.... :-S

[gwyn]

I would agree with the comments about making sure you really want a motorhome, we were caravanners for years when the kids were young, then we tried a tent abroad staying at two centres over 18 days which was when we decided on a motorhome as we came to the conclusion that we really don't like staying in one spot for more than 2 or 3 nights (PVC) but if you are going to want to be at a campsite and for at least a week at a time I would stick with the caravan as in the long run its a cheaper option than driving and parking a large motorhome on a site for 2 or 3 weeks.

[candapack]

Again, thanks to all for the help and advice. We are pretty convinced that a motorhome is the way to go - we know that touring in Europe is a different proposition to 2 weeks in Assynt (NW Scotland, favourite place, highly recommended).

We think the best plan is to hire first, as some of you have suggested. The tip about hiring in Europe is very useful.

Will let you know how it goes.

[KeithR]

im amazed at how often people refuse to listen to what is asked, and assume the person has done no research, or is simple. the guy asked for recommendations on a low profile, u-shaped lounge. so what is the problem ? why recommend an overcab, a self build or stay with a caravan??? just answer his question.

[Mel B]

KeithR - 2013-07-08 9:56 PM

 

im amazed at how often people refuse to listen to what is asked, and assume the person has done no research, or is simple. the guy asked for recommendations on a low profile, u-shaped lounge. so what is the problem ? why recommend an overcab, a self build or stay with a caravan??? just answer his question.

Oh, if only it was as easy as that! *-) The first paragraph gave us 'permission' to give advice over and above what he was asking for ...

 

candapack - 2013-07-07 2:34 PM

 

We have towed a caravan for 25 years, always in the UK. Now retired, we want to explore Europe, and think it would be easier with a motorhome. We have done a fair bit of research, but can't seem to pin down what would be the "right" van for us- despite the bewildering choice available.

So, our giving that advice was just being helpful to try to avoid his making an expensive mistake either by changing to a motorhome when a caravan would still suit better and/or getting the wrong motorhome type/layout. He then goes on to define what he thinks he wants:

 

Here's what we want; Max 6m. long; Kitchen with 3/4 burner hob, grill/oven/microwave and fridge/freezer; U-shaped rear lounge, big enough to be used as 2 single beds or a nice big double.

Bathroom with shower etc.

AND, plenty storage for all the stuff we take that currently lives in the car - bike panniers, rucksacks, boots, golf clubs and trollies etc etc.

Used vans only, budget c. £35k.

Any suggestions?

We then gave our advice, based on the experience of owning motorhomes, to point out any possible pitfalls/things to check on, as well as suitable vans, and others which may also be suitable to overcome some of the problems he may encounter from restricting himself to his original requirements.

 

Is that okay with you? :-S

[Brian Kirby]

KeithR - 2013-07-08 9:56 PM

 

im amazed at how often people refuse to listen to what is asked, and assume the person has done no research, or is simple. the guy asked for recommendations on a low profile, u-shaped lounge. so what is the problem ? why recommend an overcab, a self build or stay with a caravan??? just answer his question.

Bit harsh, Keith! No such assumptions on my part, just the knowledge, based on personel experience, that using a caravan, and using a motorhome, are not quite the same thing, and that some of the differences are not apparent until one actually makes the change. So, before buying a motorhome, the OP's assumptions are liable to be based upon those 25 years of caravanning experience, which may not be that reliable a basis on which to proceed.

 

Just answer the question is simple, the other contributions take a bit longer, and a bit more thought, but the OP can always reject what he doesn't like to sound of, so where's the harm?

 

Besides, if you stop some-one in the UK and ask if they know where the shops are, they will usually say yes, and then tell you where to find them. Do the same in any number of mainland European countries, and you will get a puzzled look, and the inevitable answer yes! You then have to explain that what you really wanted was directions to the shops - so not all questions are quite so straightforward to ask, or to answer, as your factually bereft response suggests! :-)

[BGD]

KeithR - 2013-07-08 10:56 PM

 

im amazed at how often people refuse to listen to what is asked, and assume the person has done no research, or is simple. the guy asked for recommendations on a low profile, u-shaped lounge. so what is the problem ? why recommend an overcab, a self build or stay with a caravan??? just answer his question.

 

 

OK then.

 

I have no recommendations for that type of vehicle.

There. That's really helped the OP. Not.

[pepe63xnotuse]

KeithR - 2013-07-08 9:56 PM

 

... just answer his question.

 

What?..you mean like you have?... *-)

 

We opted for a low-profile(as opposed to a rear-lounged,overcab version of the Chassuon in my earlier link,that was at the dealers at the time),working along the lines that there's only the two of us(..and if any of my grown up daughters and their partners did ever travel with us,they probably wouldn't want to sleep in the same vehicle anyway...)..and even though in the main our usage is just long weekends ,with a few week long festivals, all in the UK, even with our comparatively "limited" usage, we can see the advantage of an overcab,storage-wise....

 

 

 

 

[candapack]

Oh dear - didn't mean to cause any trouble. Honestly, ALL the advice has been useful.

Just one question, maybe me being thick, but what is an OP?

(And it better not be Old Person!)

[pepe63xnotuse]

candapack - 2013-07-09 11:34 AM

 

Oh dear - didn't mean to cause any trouble. Honestly, ALL the advice has been useful.

Just one question, maybe me being thick, but what is an OP?

(And it better not be Old Person!)

 

Nah!..don't worry yourself, you didn't cause anything.. ;-)

 

(OP=Opening Poster/Opening Post)