ELDDIS AUTOQUEST 2010 ALLOY CORROSION AND WOOD ROT

[Rayjsj]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-12-17 9:27 AM

 

globebuster - 2013-12-16 4:33 PM

 

Trust me, the Polystyrene will have made a significant contribution to the damage.

 

 

I worked at GCHQ for 26 years. I don't trust anybody - some days I don't even trust me.

 

You weren't the Bloke that Followed me around for a week, while I was onsite there, Fixing Computer Equipment were You ? Even when i went to the Toilet, big shiny boots stood outside the door. Disconcerting. 8-) ;-) Ray

[Rayjsj]

Finger trouble, double post.

[Derek Uzzell]

pepe63 - 2013-12-17 6:43 PM

 

rupert123 - 2013-12-17 6:08 PM

 

peter - 2013-12-17 5:47 PM

 

A thicker and separate aluminium panel for a start. But that would incur extra cost. Not what they want at all. :->

As has been pointed out on this thread several times they do not use this construction method any more.

 

Yeah, let's keep this in perspective eh, after all, they haven't used such a rough ar*ed, outdated method of construction since ...well?....it must at least 3 or 4 years now... (lol)

 

Elddis announced their SoLiD construction technique in mid-2012, and photos of 2013 Autoquest models show a different side-panel design.

 

Some adverts for 2012 Autoquests show the 'new' side-panel design, while others have the 'old' design (like coombsmk2's with a cover-strip well up from the side-panel's base).

 

The SoLiD methodology (as globebuster points out) doesn't automatically prevent the type of problem coombsmk2 has. SoLiD dispenses with a lot of the external screws traditionally used, but it doesn't dispense with the wood framing.

 

[lennyhb]

Derek Uzzell - 2013-12-18 9:48 AM

 

The SoLiD methodology (as globebuster points out) doesn't automatically prevent the type of problem coombsmk2 has. SoLiD dispenses with a lot of the external screws traditionally used, but it doesn't dispense with the wood framing.

 

From the photos I have seen it looks like they are still using untreated softwood, I suspect the change in construction method is more to do with cost saving especially in a van of this price range.

[rupert123]

globebuster - 2013-12-17 7:08 PM

 

Even a budget van deserves to be built half-decent!

 

They may not use this method anymore, so what about those existing owners Rupert? - because I fear it's only a matter of time before others come to the surface.

 

Let's face it, they were about 20 years behind just about everyone else in dropping the overlap method amongst other things 8-)

And those exposed 2" x 1" that run along the bottom of the skirt - what were they thinking?

 

They now use the Solid construction system - but I can tell you that underneath not so much has changed !!!

Lets not get this out of context, all I said was the construction has now changed and it has. Problems with any van is bad news for the owner and in an ideal world should not happen. However it seems to me that every time their is a problem with a UK built van and judged against the number sold this is not so great, all the usual suspects leap in. On here their have been a number of pretty serious problems reported with euro vans and as so few are sold in the UK these represent a far greater number when viewed as a percentage. The euro van problems are 'glossed over' why is this, easier to knock the UK I guess but in case anyone has not noticed this is going out of fashion, France is now the 'sick man of europe', Germany to follow any time soon.

[Steve928]

globebuster - 2013-12-17 7:08 PM

Let's face it, they were about 20 years behind just about everyone else in dropping the overlap method amongst other things 8-)

 

Could you clarify what you mean by the 'overlap method ' please Globebuster?

If you are talking about making the van's side panel out of more than one sheet then this is still the case: there is a panel joint running level with the top of the habitation door on SoLiD models.

As indeed there is on the Buerstner Ixeo range (German, £60,000+, top 10 in the 'Reputations' thread).

Presumably you're referring to something else?

 

globebuster - 2013-12-17 7:08 PM

They now use the Solid construction system - but I can tell you that underneath not so much has changed !!!

 

Really? The SoLiD van I crawled underneath looked substantially different:

- floor made from resin-impregnated board rather than WBP plywood

- a full GRP cover to the underside of the floor

- no timber in the side skirts

- lower skirts in ABS plastic

In fact, compared to the unprotected timber-fest on the neighbouring Autosleeper (£60,000, Top 10 in the 'Reputations' thread.. you get the picture.) it looked like a clean, modern, durable underside.

 

[globebuster]

My comments are hardly out of context Rupert -

 

Frankly, I don't care where the van is manufactured - the fact remains that poor design concept coupled with dubious execution and sub-standard materials will create potential issues.

 

Some manufacturing processes are, at best inept and at worst criminal.

 

What does the NCC actually do to oversee and audit the situation?

 

As has been pointed out, new production techniques will nearly always be allied to cost saving as much as a desire to improve product integrity.

 

Ironically I think some German producers are taking a backward step in terms of construction materials, certainly when it comes to body mouldings and profiles - just look at the newer Hobby and Burstner ranges.

 

I'll still stick to my beliefs though: Regardless of numbers produced v warranty claims, British CB motorhomes are generally still poor relations in terms of construction technique.

 

 

[Will86]

Derek (I worked at GCHQ for 26 years. I don't trust anybody - some days I don't even trust me.)

 

Hooray at last someone else is a non believer !

 

I get referred to as 'uneducated' when I mention it. The problem is that so many people are blinkered into believing what is told them by official sources.

 

They have no lateral thinking which is the key to understanding the commercial world.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2013-12-18 11:37 AM................... However it seems to me that every time their is a problem with a UK built van and judged against the number sold this is not so great, all the usual suspects leap in. On here their have been a number of pretty serious problems reported with euro vans and as so few are sold in the UK these represent a far greater number when viewed as a percentage. The euro van problems are 'glossed over' why is this, easier to knock the UK I guess but in case anyone has not noticed this is going out of fashion, France is now the 'sick man of europe', Germany to follow any time soon.

I don't think it is a matter of pride or pleasure to anyone that the UK product is criticised. I assume most of those who complain would much prefer to stick out their John Bull waistcoats, and proudly proclaim that UK made vans are the best in the world. Some stalwarts even try to do this despite the evidence! :-) We all have our desire for national pride.

 

It has to be acknowledged that most of the UK manufacturers have moved into motorhome production form previously making only caravans. Those same manufacturers attracted huge criticism for leakage of their caravans, as anyone who has belonged to the Caravan Club over the past 10 years or so will know. They merely brought their poor assembly techniques to motorhomes, with predictable results.

 

Apart from poor and technically weak dealers, what causes most of the criticism, from my own observations, is leakage, with subsequent damage and rot. Other defects cause gripes, but not on the same scale. The leakage is caused by a combination of poor technical design and bad assembly quality control. Most manufacturers are now using excellent materials with service lives in the region of 20 years or more. Failures in so few years as are reported could be avoided if manufacturers so chose. Personally, I doubt this would affect costs at all. The design would take a little longer to perfect, the production should be no slower, and the payoff would surely come from the reduction in expensive warranty claims, with a better dealer - buyer relationship flowing from that.

 

My take is that it is not so much that the continental vans are fault-free (which would be a naive expectation), but that they are GENERALLY less prone to leakage, and when they do fail they get repaired under warranty with little to no argument. Where the UK dealer cannot, or will not, make good the defect, this may involve taking or returning the van to the factory, but the defect will get remedied. It has also been recorded that the continental makers listed above, generally, take a more relaxed view on their warranties, and are prepared to accept claims that are outside, but peripheral to, the warranty period. This builds confidence and goodwill, and that builds the reputation.

 

In the case in point, Elddis, having built badly of poor materials, apparently refused to accept any responsibility for the consequences, instead relying on a warranty condition even while the van was still within the warranty period. They were entitled to do this, and cannot legally be challenged for their decision, but the moral responsibility is theirs, and the PR consequences of their apparent refusal even to contribute to the repair illustrative of their attitude to their customer. Not a clever way to build a good reputation, it seems.

 

I would add that fabricating another such panel, hopefully better designed, should not have been that costly for them, so even if the unfortunate owner had to pay the labour for fitting it, the costs to all parties would have been minimal. It is this kind of one eyed commercial stupidity that prevents UK made vans being reputed as the best in the world. That is our problem, and that is why we complain so loudly. Sweeping that under the Union Flag won't solve this fundamental problem!

[globebuster]

Hi Steve,

 

Well I think I answered one of your points in my last post.

 

Regarding the underside of current Elddis models, from what I witnessed at the NEC.

 

Underside protection - Actually I think the new process might create more of a problem due to poor fit/ voids around the perimeter and using inappropriate sealants.

 

I guess you didn't see the poorly reinforced step base? - Ply encapsulated in GRP with hardly any fibre content [probably by using 2oz CSM instead of BWR] hence plenty of voids to create moisture entrapment....BUT the real icing on the cake - I nice random bit of TOTALLY UNPROTECTED 1"x1" softwood wedged between the step itself and the encapsulated ply - what a feat of precision engineering!!!!!!

 

Likewise, other British Built CB's with unprotected ply packers between floor and chassis members.

 

Couldn't agree more about Autosleeper - equally poor below the waterline, but with a bit more finesse! maybe they got in the top 10 'Reputations' on account of historical quality?

 

I have a lovely souvenir from the show - the swarf off a nicely routed hole to facilitate a plastic drop-in battery box from the inside of a locker floor. The problem is the remaining gap between the box and the floor [about 30mm all round] was totally unprotected - lovely bare, exposed, cheap ply.

For an added bonus and to speed up the delamination, this was directly behind the N/S rear wheel to ensure optimum crud and water ingress - Thank god we can all sleep peacefully at night knowing all those vans are built to NCC guidelines.

[Will86]

Then perhaps our Eddie should be commended for his long running argument, pointing out that continental vans are the better buy.

 

Where is he lately ?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Will85 - 2013-12-18 1:35 PM

 

Then perhaps our Eddie should be commended for his long running argument, pointing out that continental vans are the better buy.

 

Where is he lately ?

 

Outside trying to fix his van. :D :D

[goldi]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen,

 

Earlier this year I was chatting to a chap on an aire in southern France who had just changed his elldis because of rot starting on a piece of exposed timber , and the van was only one year old !. This is simply not good enough.

 

 

 

norm

[globebuster]

goldi - 2013-12-18 3:34 PM

 

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen,

 

Earlier this year I was chatting to a chap on an aire in southern France who had just changed his elldis because of rot starting on a piece of exposed timber , and the van was only one year old !. This is simply not good enough.

 

 

And I bet I have a good idea where that might be

:-(

[Steve928]

globebuster - 2013-12-18 1:08 PM

I guess you didn't see the poorly reinforced step base?

 

No I didn't I must admit. I tend to crawl under the rear ends of vans: time is limited after all as you only get so long lying on your back in the showroom with your feet sticking out of the side ot the van before the salesmen start interfering.. :-D

[lennyhb]

Steve928 - 2013-12-18 4:25 PM

 

globebuster - 2013-12-18 1:08 PM

I guess you didn't see the poorly reinforced step base?

 

No I didn't I must admit. I tend to crawl under the rear ends of vans: time is limited after all as you only get so long lying on your back in the showroom with your feet sticking out of the side ot the van before the salesmen start interfering.. :-D

 

I was looking under a Hymer at Düsseldorf a salesman then took me over to another Hymer that was on a raised stand so I could have a good look underneath, they are proud of their construction and don't mind showing it off.

[Steve928]

lennyhb - 2013-12-18 4:34 PM

 

Steve928 - 2013-12-18 4:25 PM

 

globebuster - 2013-12-18 1:08 PM

I guess you didn't see the poorly reinforced step base?

 

No I didn't I must admit. I tend to crawl under the rear ends of vans: time is limited after all as you only get so long lying on your back in the showroom with your feet sticking out of the side ot the van before the salesmen start interfering.. :-D

 

I was looking under a Hymer at Düsseldorf a salesman then took me over to another Hymer that was on a raised stand so I could have a good look underneath, they are proud of their construction and don't mind showing it off.

 

I don't think that the manufacturers have much influence over how their vans are displayed at the dealers. At my local dealer they are all at ground level, Hymer included.

[globebuster]

I know what you mean - my wife was really impressed watching me grovel about on the floor in front of a few thousand people at the NEC 8-)

 

As I keep stressing, I don't have a 'downer' on British vans........just the ones I see most fault in. They are not alone, some Euro vans are not perfect, but the Brits seem to excel in terms of poor design and structural quality.

 

Until the NCC have any clout or Magazines start doing some half-decent appraisals we are on our own!

 

So keep looking under'um [old or new] - a fair guideline to build expectation can be gleaned from looking in all the wrong places!. Start from the bottom and work your way up, and if you're still satisfied THEN it might be worth opening the door to consider the layout and spec.

[Will86]

During the days I worked in a garage most people had what we called the 'Glitter Syndrome' where they were attracted by the appearance of a car and had no interest in looking under the wheel arches with a torch neither to ramp the car or go down a pit to check the chassis.

 

I guess the same applies today in many instances.

[4cls]

JudgeMental - 2013-12-14 7:29 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-12-14 6:32 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2013-12-14 2:54 PM

 

Yawn.....Sounds like your still trying to convince yourself with the usual pathetic excuses....anyone with half a brain on here drives European vans

 

And true to form, full of poisonousness jibes, and your usual sympathy for someone finding themselves with a problem, and if that's not enough, rubbing the salt in the wound as well, I'll bet it's made your day to read of this blokes problems. Why don't you tell us about your worsening health issues, we'll do " a Judgemental" and all have good laugh about them while we're at it (!)

 

 

You really are a scumbag you nasty little man.....the irony being with your German this and German that, the war, spitfires, Churchill, and other utter rubbish, you have more in common with the nazis than anyone on here!lol stay away from me you lowlife.

...........Judgemental,.... This is unbelievable, insults like this do your reputation no good at all, stop acting like a spoilt brat throwing tantrums and be more like sensible 21st century human being. This forum has degenerated into lowlife contributors. yours 4CLS

[coombsmk2]

Hi to everyone and thank you for all your opinions and input so far...

 

The damage is unfortunately far worse than shown.

Further investigations are finding that either ends of the wheelarch panels are also rotten.

This are is purely down to poor sealing of the lap panel,( mine no sealer at all under the end caps!) which one of you did note is fitted in build terms the wrong way.

A very bad design fault.

In fact ALL the lower flanks lack any proper sealing from the floor level downwards, They will not last...

I am not trying to degrade the Elddis or other brands I am just bringing to other motorhomers and caravanners attention to possible build quality problems and resulting and expensive repairs. At the end of the day I repair and coachbuild expensive motor vehicles, so when I decided to purchase a motorhome I didnt want a project.3years old and 10k miles I expected to be pretty good.

Hidesight is a wonderful thing and yes I made a mistake but I am pretty sure this design is certainly not fit for purpose.

Elddis design team have a very very serious problem here.

It will be interesting to see how many others will fall victim to this problem.

In the future I will look very carefully at the way they are built and if I was a fellow motorhomer with this simular model I would get it carefully checked out ASAP.

Best Regards........

[pepe63xnotuse]

Hi coombs'..Sorry to hear that it's worse than first thought...

 

If you plan on keeping it, it'd be worth checking the any seams that you have on the roof as well...

Our low profile Compass 120 had a very lumpy and suspect looking moulding covering the seam between the main ali roof panel and the moulded section over the cab.. :-S

 

(..and we saw a previous model overcab compass/Elddis not so long back and the front/top moulding on the overcab section had let go, resulting in the top panel lifting and flapping freely..... *-) )

[candapack]

 

 

And true to form, full of poisonousness jibes, and your usual sympathy for someone finding themselves with a problem, and if that's not enough, rubbing the salt in the wound as well, I'll bet it's made your day to read of this blokes problems. Why don't you tell us about your worsening health issues, we'll do " a Judgemental" and all have good laugh about them while we're at it (!)

 

 

You really are a scumbag you nasty little man.....the irony being with your German this and German that, the war, spitfires, Churchill, and other utter rubbish, you have more in common with the nazis than anyone on here!lol stay away from me you lowlife............

 

Judgemental,.... This is unbelievable, insults like this do your reputation no good at all, stop acting like a spoilt brat throwing tantrums and be more like sensible 21st century human being. This forum has degenerated into lowlife contributors. yours 4CLS

 

In his defence, the post from 1foot which provoked Eddie's outburst was, in my opinion, completely out of order.

But they should both know better - I witnessed a spat between two 60-something ladies the other day, it ended with "same to you with knobs on". I blame the parents myself! :D

[Guest Peter James]

globebuster - 2013-12-18 5:26 PM

 

I know what you mean - my wife was really impressed watching me grovel about on the floor in front of a few thousand people at the NEC 8-)

 

As I keep stressing, I don't have a 'downer' on British vans........just the ones I see most fault in. They are not alone, some Euro vans are not perfect, but the Brits seem to excel in terms of poor design and structural quality.

 

Until the NCC have any clout or Magazines start doing some half-decent appraisals we are on our own!

 

So keep looking under'um [old or new] - a fair guideline to build expectation can be gleaned from looking in all the wrong places!. Start from the bottom and work your way up, and if you're still satisfied THEN it might be worth opening the door to consider the layout and spec.

 

But you still haven't told us what British built vans should use in place of polystyrene.

We would welcome an expert opinion. *-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

candapack - 2013-12-19 6:35 PM

 

 

 

And true to form, full of poisonousness jibes, and your usual sympathy for someone finding themselves with a problem, and if that's not enough, rubbing the salt in the wound as well, I'll bet it's made your day to read of this blokes problems. Why don't you tell us about your worsening health issues, we'll do " a Judgemental" and all have good laugh about them while we're at it (!)

 

 

You really are a scumbag you nasty little man.....the irony being with your German this and German that, the war, spitfires, Churchill, and other utter rubbish, you have more in common with the nazis than anyone on here!lol stay away from me you lowlife.

...........

 

Judgemental,.... This is unbelievable, insults like this do your reputation no good at all, stop acting like a spoilt brat throwing tantrums and be more like sensible 21st century human being. This forum has degenerated into lowlife contributors. yours 4CLS

 

In his defence, the post from 1foot which provoked Eddie's outburst was, in my opinion, completely out of order.

But they should both know better - I witnessed a spat between two 60-something ladies the other day, it ended with "same to you with knobs on". I blame the parents myself! :D

 

 

I stand corrected, but my response although in hindsight was not justified, I have every sympathy with anyone facing health issues, I have enough of my own, but was born out of sheer frustration that this individuals only comment was along the lines that it served him right for buying British, did the OP deserve that kind of reply, I personally do not think so, and it certainly offered zero sympathy, and with respect that was completely "out of order" to begin with. ;-)