Guest Peter James Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 They didn't have a map sensor at the Citroen Dealers in Plymouth. The original I washed in petrol, but if you reconnect it then it soots up again after about 30 miles, so will run home with it disconnected and order a new one on ebay. Thanks for all the help. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 But why is the MAP sensor sooting up? If it has failed it will not cause itself to soot up. Something else must have failed to cause the soot. possibly EGR? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Keithl - 2014-03-14 7:03 PM But why is the MAP sensor sooting up? If it has failed it will not cause itself to soot up. Something else must have failed to cause the soot. possibly EGR? Keith. I don't know. Looking on ebay I see blanking plates for the EGR valve, Perhaps I should send for one of these at the same time as a new Map sensor when I get home - the dealers don't seem to stock them The problem I have found with Citroen dealers is that, looking at their forecourts about 99% of their business is cars and they seem to have little experience with vans. When I took mine in for a new wheel carrier they fitted the wrong one (15" instead of 16" wheel) and sent the van out with the spare wheel held on by only one bolt partially screwed on - and since they don't stock the relevant van parts either it doesn't inspire much confidence. This is the blanking plate I saw : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-Valve-blanking-plate-FORD-MK7-TRANSIT-2-2-2-4-tdci-Land-Rover-Citroen-relay-/120940252274?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2899cc72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Peter James - 2014-03-14 7:56 PM Keithl - 2014-03-14 7:03 PM But why is the MAP sensor sooting up? If it has failed it will not cause itself to soot up. Something else must have failed to cause the soot. possibly EGR? Keith. I don't know. Looking on ebay I see blanking plates for the EGR valve, Perhaps I should send for one of these at the same time as a new Map sensor when I get home - the dealers don't seem to stock them When I looked into this it required reprogramming as well as just fitting the blanking plate, several hundred pounds IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 If you blank the EGR off it will throw up a warning light. If you want to run without the EGR and blanked you need to have the software altered to delete the EGR. From what I have read these engines do not run well with the EGR blanked and power is affected. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I've tried one of these blanking plates, albeit on a 2.2 TDCI 153bhp Mondeo.- but identical. Didn't work - but I suppose for less than a fiver it's worth a punt. Had to resort to new EGR Valve again [the third one fitted in 180k] in each case the valve was not sooted but up the electronic component failed. If you are still down on the Devon/Cornwall border I can recommend a couple of good independent garages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I've tried one of these blanking plates, albeit on a 2.2 TDCI 153bhp Mondeo.- but identical. Didn't work - but I suppose for less than a fiver it's worth a punt. Had to resort to new EGR Valve again [the third one fitted in 180k] in each case the valve was not sooted but up the electronic component failed. If you are still down on the Devon/Cornwall border I can recommend a couple of good independent garages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 As previously stated, you cannot just blank the EGR by itself, you need to have the software in the ECU altered, otherwise you will bring up the MIL light. Also, just unplugging the EGR will eventually bring on the MIL light (the time / distance is a bit variable for this to happen, but within about 200 miles). For further help with these engines, try the Transit Forum at: http://fordtransit.org/ there you will find lots of experts and advice on having the EGR permanently deleted, if that is what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Many Thanks for the replies, Much Appreciated. I found it runs well enough to get home with the MAP sensor disconnected, just a bit down on power and with the emissions light on, so I have run home with it and ordered a MAP sensor off ebay as a start. Disconnecting the other sensor, or the EGR valve, makes no discernible difference - either with or without the MAP sensor connected. I don't know whether thats good or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Jimish - 2014-03-13 11:38 AM don't know what an EGR valve is but they replaced it, relieved me of £282 and now the van is back to normal. I would be very happy with that when you see the retail price of the valve is £260, and its very awkward to get at without lots of dismantling. Have seen them on ebay for £100 though. (Just been looking at parts online) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 £260.00!! It's only a solenoid valve. You should be able to feel if the solenoid is working when you switch on the engine. You need to get someone to switch on the engine whilst you put your finger on the valve casing, you may also hear it click. In which case, if it's sticking, it might be gummed up. Before dismantling anything, replace the MAP sensor and take it out for a good thrashing. Which you should do occasionally anyway to keep the Catalytic converter clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 peter - 2014-03-17 11:12 PM £260.00!! It's only a solenoid valve. You should be able to feel if the solenoid is working when you switch on the engine. You need to get someone to switch on the engine whilst you put your finger on the valve casing, you may also hear it click. In which case, if it's sticking, it might be gummed up. Before dismantling anything, replace the MAP sensor and take it out for a good thrashing. Which you should do occasionally anyway to keep the Catalytic converter clean. Thanks Peter, will try That :-D Did a google search for EGR valve and came up with two - same part as far as I can see Unipart £265.61 ntlparts £96.95 links; http://www.unipartautomotive.co.uk/Fuel-Engine-Management/Engine-Management-Fuel-Inj-Parts/Citroen/Relay/all/2.2/2008/Parts.aspx http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-EGR-Valve-2-2-2-4-3-2-Diesel-HDi-TDCi-Multijet-Citroen-Fiat-Ford-Peugeot-/231022010114?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3ARelay&hash=item35c9fc1f02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 New MAP sensor arrived, perhaps a little better, but still smoking a lot when the MAP sensor is connected. Not smoking much when it isn't connected, and it makes no difference whether the EGR valve is connected or not. Have ordered a blanking plate for the EGR valve. Don't have much confidence but at £4 it must be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 How are you proposing to get the vehicle through the MOT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Mike88 - 2014-03-18 5:31 PM How are you proposing to get the vehicle through the MOT? Well I wasn't thinking that far ahead yet - I thought if it works OK with the EGR valve blanked off perhaps that would suggest the EGR valve is faulty, then I could replace it? The seller I ordered it from says he does one with a little hole in that cuts out the emissions light - looks easy enough to make a hole in the solid one I have ordered? Not a foolproof plan I know, but I can't think of a better one :$ solid blanking plate: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-Valve-blanking-plate-FORD-MK7-TRANSIT-2-2-2-4-tdci-Land-Rover-Citroen-relay-/120940252274?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c2899cc72 plate with hole in: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110934139626?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D110934139626%26_rdc%3D1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 I've tried both variants - neither helped me. The biggest problem is getting a good seal, as you will have no gasket on the face whatever way you fit it. But worth a go for less than a fiver - personally I'd have bought both options, you'll spend more on bits drilling through stainless ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 globebuster - 2014-03-18 8:01 PM I've tried both variants - neither helped me. The biggest problem is getting a good seal, as you will have no gasket on the face whatever way you fit it. But worth a go for less than a fiver - personally I'd have bought both options, you'll spend more on bits drilling through stainless ;-) Thanks for the reply.:-D He says the one without the hole is soft aluminum, the one with the hole is stainless steel, I don't know why the difference? But I have got aluminum sheet and could easily make one from that if I had one for a template. If I knew it was the valve that was faulty I would get another one. I don't know but I just thought the blanking plate may be a way of finding out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 If the EGR valve is to blame then the fault will be it is stuck open...if it is to blame, so why not whip it off and have a look and see if it is stuck open. Then you might know if you need one or not. If it is stuck closed it s unlikely to be the problem, you are more likely to overheat and have higher NOX emissions. If exhaust gases get fed back into combustion chamber at low engine rpm then the combustion temperatures will be a lot lower and you can get smoking. You would probably also have a very rough idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Brambles - 2014-03-18 8:50 PM If the EGR valve is to blame then the fault will be it is stuck open...if it is to blame, so why not whip it off and have a look and see if it is stuck open. Then you might know if you need one or not. If it is stuck closed it s unlikely to be the problem, you are more likely to overheat and have higher NOX emissions. If exhaust gases get fed back into combustion chamber at low engine rpm then the combustion temperatures will be a lot lower and you can get smoking. You would probably also have a very rough idle. Thanks for the reply :-D I suppose the EGR valve must be faulty as it makes no difference to anything whether its plugged in or not. But its awkward to get to - the manual we have talks about draining the cooling system and removing hoses etc just to get to it. And with a blanking plate on the way I thought I would try that first. But I think you are right and I will have to take the EGR Valve off. Not that I will know what I am looking at when I have taken it off. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The blanking plate arrived today (the one without the hole), fitted it easily from under the van without ramps (10mm ratchet spanner made it quicker and easier as space very limited), works a treat :-D Have just been on a 20 mile run, including a long steep hill to test the turbo, the van drives like new again :-D Several people have said it will bring the emissions warning light on, but it hasn't yet. When it does I will probably be back here for some more help :$ Many Thanks to All :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 The emissions light is more likely to come on with high revs and engine is hot when the valve is told to open, then the management system will detect the fault. The light will have come on without the plate as it detects a fault on a sensor due to valve being open. So so far looking good you have found the fault. I would not run without a working valve though, at high engine RPM and temperatures you could have too high a combustion heat and damage may result as the cooling sytem is not designed for the extra heat dissipationt. At lower RPM and low temperature the valve does not open so makes no difference to economy or emissions. High NOX also corrodes exhaust pipes quicker and is very toxic. I cannot condone running without a working EGR valve as it is there to improve our environment and unless you are a boy racer will not make a big difference to ecomomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hi Peter, I agree with Jon here, you appear to have found the reason for your failure and subsequent MAP failures but also do not condone running without EGR as this in turn will probably lead to further problems. My suggestion would be to get your EGR valve replaced as soon as possible. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Well I don't know what else it could be but the EGR valve? And yet if the EGR valve was stuck open I don't understand why it ran perfectly well back from Plymouth, albeit at moderately reduced power, but no smoke, as long as the MAP sensor was unplugged? It was only plugging in the MAP sensor that made it cough and splutter black smoke with severe loss of power, especially at low revs - even when I renewed the MAP sensor it made little difference. Until I put the blanking plate in, then it ran like new again (Its only done 34,000 miles) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 When you unplug the MAP sensor the management system falls back to safe default fuel settings. With it is connnected and with the valve opens when it should not then its readings are all wrong and fuel is adjusted accordingly. It probably senses a higher pressure than it should ( exhaust feeding back increases pressure) so it provides more fuel. Running way over rich it pumps out smoke. Something like that anyway!! Above 2000 rpm when it started to run smooth it was probably instructing the valve to open and so ran absolutely fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Brambles - 2014-03-19 9:34 PM When you unplug the MAP sensor the management system falls back to safe default fuel settings. With it is connnected and with the valve opens when it should not then its readings are all wrong and fuel is adjusted accordingly. It probably senses a higher pressure than it should ( exhaust feeding back increases pressure) so it provides more fuel. Running way over rich it pumps out smoke. Something like that anyway!! Above 2000 rpm when it started to run smooth it was probably instructing the valve to open and so ran absolutely fine. That would explain it. Thanks Brambles B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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