Megan Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi does anyone know anything about this one? Seller advising it is better than Hymer?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 A good pedigree made by the Hymer stable. One thing to consider is many of them only have a habitation door. No driver or passenger door, it was an added extra at time of ordering. I met a Dutch owner who had removed the drop down bed and installed extra overhead lockers, it looked great. They never seem to age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Gosh yes I hadn't noticed! Is that safe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Depends on the age of the Flair as to whether it is better than a Hymer. In the 90's and early noughties, Niesmann & Bischoff had the Arto at the bottom of the range. This Arto was cheaper than a Hymer and slightly lower quality [i had one, great van], the Flair was next in the line up and comparable with the Hymer A-classes, and then there were the Clou Liners [built in motorhoming heaven]. The 1997 smallest Merc Flair cost just the other side of £50k depending on the options, cheaper than the Hymer Merc range of the time. If its old and on a Merc, expect a soft, almost wallowy ride. I expect it will have a huge front windscreen [replacement may cost c£5k and is not a stock item], probably a tired looking interior, but solidly built on an Merc cart horse base which will go up mountains like a goat and just as slow. I have a Which Motorcaravan review of the 1997 59s Flair! They commented on the difficulty of topping up fluids because of the limited engine bay access. There were a few Flairs sold with a Fiat base. Great van, and rare in the UK until more recently where it has become an important income stream for Travelworld at Telford. Ownership likely to be slightly more difficult than for the more common Hymers because of its rarity but that wouldn't put me off if it has the wow factor I think it will have. Following the recession, the Niesman & Bischoff brand was pushed up market and above the Hymer brand [Hymer own Niesmann & Bischoff] and you won't get much change out of £200k now for a new Flair. Motorhome Depot has one for sale and if buying from these people, I suggest you do a search for people's experiences [i would for any dealer]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Megan, my Arto just had a single door and it was on the "wrong side'. You will find it quite aa few of 'liner type' of motorhomes do not have additional doors. The thinking is that the more doors, the less rigidity and the more drafts and wind noise. A cab door is an extra on most A-classes. Is it safe? Not if you can't get out through the habitation door or climb out of the windows or can't see whether there is any traffic coming before you step out. We had our Arto for 5 years and never gave it a thought. If safety is a concern, you would need to buy a brand new one to get the current standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Thanks John. This is an R reg right hand drive A Class Not sure what A class means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 A-Class is how the UK describes what the Germans call 'Integrated' motorhomes. It means the cab area is integrated into the living area - you can't see the join sort of thing. On some motorhomes you can see the original external cab body, on an integrated, you cannot. Benefits of A-classes include drop down beds in the cab area, greater open space in the cab area, better visibility fro driving, maximum use of space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 There's an expression regarding driving an "A" class, "It's like driving in a goldfish bowl". I have owned 2 and found them ok and never experienced a front windscreen problem. Perhaps someone will come along and give an accurate replacement price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Your wish is my command, Roland .... £2,800 including fitting to replace Hymer 2013 windscreen although I doubt my insurers paid that amount when they settled the claim. PSV Glass would have done a new windscreen for £1200 plus fitting. Both were verbal quotes, the PSV Glass was a special offer.. My chip was too close to the edge of the screen [within 2"] and so couldn't be repaired]. I've had 2 claims in 15 years of A-class ownership although the first one was a £75 repair as would the 2nd one had it been another inch away from the edge. My Arto screen in 2001 would have cost just over £5,000 to replace, according to the dealer, but it was a hell of a size. At Lincoln Show, somebody told me the retail fitted cost of theirs was £7,000 on a liner. Getting the screen replaced is not easy because the fitters like to work in doors to ensure the right environment and also like two days for the adhesive to bond. Neither is essential, both are beneficial. I took mine to Autoglass at Warrington which may have closed since. It's not something I worry about but I ensure the insurance covers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all the people who have helped. I am now the proud owner of the Niesmann Bischoff Flair Life A Class - was knocked out by it!! It is beautiful, spacious - which must be an optical illusion as I have just compared the size to the Voyager Swift I nearly bought and it is smaller. The condition was great, the lock fantastic, the windscreen ENORMOUS but like a viewing platform to see the countryside going by. MOT'd for a whole year. Just have to sort out insurance now .. so now doubt I'll be back with lots of queries - I will be joining the c and c club and possibly the cc club too. The dogs will love it (I hope) and it will forthwith be known as the bichonmobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Brock - 2015-11-08 3:44 PM Your wish is my command, Roland .... £2,800 including fitting to replace Hymer 2013 windscreen although I doubt my insurers paid that amount when they settled the claim. PSV Glass would have done a new windscreen for £1200 plus fitting. Both were verbal quotes, the PSV Glass was a special offer.. My chip was too close to the edge of the screen [within 2"] and so couldn't be repaired]. I've had 2 claims in 15 years of A-class ownership although the first one was a £75 repair as would the 2nd one had it been another inch away from the edge. My Arto screen in 2001 would have cost just over £5,000 to replace, according to the dealer, but it was a hell of a size. At Lincoln Show, somebody told me the retail fitted cost of theirs was £7,000 on a liner. Getting the screen replaced is not easy because the fitters like to work in doors to ensure the right environment and also like two days for the adhesive to bond. Neither is essential, both are beneficial. I took mine to Autoglass at Warrington which may have closed since. It's not something I worry about but I ensure the insurance covers it. Thanks John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Wonderful news, Megan. Make sure you get enough insurance cover for the windscreen. If it's a 59s model with a blue and yellow flash own the side, I can send you a scanned copy of the Which Motorcaravan review in March 1997 if you pm me your email address. I'm away for some of next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 Hi has a grey flash down the side. I'm not sure of the name of the model range and model either - it is just described as Flair Life A class RHD Does the C and CC offer insurance and breakdown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Looks like a longer version than the 59s. From extra bulge on the external toilet door, it looks like you have a SOG which means you won't need chemicals to break down the toilet waste. http://www.soguk.co.uk/what-is-a-sog/ It's a beautiful van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Megan - 2015-11-08 7:05 PM and it will forthwith be known as the bichonmobile Love it. I'm going to call mine the "Bitchin' Mobile" as well. :D In hindsight, I may ask the wife what she thinks. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks yes it does have SOG but didn't know what it meant until now! Still have no idea what model it is though. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 1998 R reg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Fiat engine 2.5 TD, sleeping capacity 3' Length 5.95m/ 19' 6" Width 2.33m/7.7" Ht 2.95m/9'8" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Hi Megan, Looking at the photo you posted I'm guessing that this was the original ad for it... Link to Advert If so then the extra photos in the ad may help someone identify the model for you. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The photos and description indicate that it’s almost certainly a 5.9S model. This 1996 N+B brochure may be of interest http://magazine.camperonline.it/cataloghi/N+B-Flair-Life-1996.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Thank you - how kind to send this link! Have you any tips on insurance - have got a reasonable one from Adrian Flux but as I have just joined the C and CC club wondered if they can do a better deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Having obtained a quote from Adrian Flux it would be sensible to obtain quotes from other providers of motorhome insurance. As a member of the C&CC you should certainly try that club, but there are more alternatives (Comfort, Caravanguard, Saga, Safeguard, etc.) The main thing is to establish what each provider’s policy offers and make sure it’s what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Megan - 2015-11-09 1:38 PM Have you any tips on insurance - have got a reasonable one from Adrian Flux but... Megan, Be very careful of AF! I was insured with them for the first couple of years with our MH but then when I found a better quote I tried to move only to find that the AF policy had been a 'NET' policy and did not accrue NCD. My next years policy consequently cost slightly more than I expected as the new company only gave me an introductory NCD and not the full years I thought I was entitled to. Apparently it is a ploy to offer reduced premiums as no one gets a discount. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megan Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 AIB do that too but the quote is the most competitive so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I thought that Adrian Flux is an insurance broker and not an insurer. If so, Keith's problem would probably be with whoever Adrian Flux recommended. My policy is through Comfort which is very clear on its website that it issues 'net policies' underwritten by Aviva [formerly Norwich Union]. 'Net policies' allow the insurer to provide the maximum discount available and the insurer saves on its costs. My understanding is that if you tell a net insurer you have X years No Claims Discount or have not had a claim within the last X years, it will accept what you say as insurance is underwritten on the 'utmost good faith' principle. If it turns out you lied, then your insurance is invalid from the date of the lie [or thereabouts] so you would have paid premiums for no cover for yourself and your vehicle. You will also have committed a number of criminal acts [there has been a recent thread on this on Motorhome Facts]. 'Net' insurers cannot confirm your NCD record if you go elsewhere as it didn't check before it insured you . The net insurer should be able to provide a letter setting out your claim record during your time with them [Comfort say it will]. Insurers can now check your claims history through a shared database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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