Any particular reason not to buy a recondiitoned "D" class MH?

[LucyK]

Hello,

 

I'm new to this forum and am a MH beginner so would greatly appreciate some advice please!

 

We have been searching for sometime to find the ideal MH to fit our needs (Family of 4 - 7yr old and 2 yr old, seasoned campers now wanting a compact van under 6m to fit all weathers to use on regular basis and long summer hols) and have finally found the perfect match. It's a Hymer Exsis I 522 2009 - but unique in that it is 5 berth. I have back problems so a good bed was a must for me and also a bed that can be sectioned off with curtain for the kids, which this model has. It's in immaculate condition internally, mechanically it is sound and has a very low milage. at 21,000. But it is a "D" class as it's first owner had minor accident to the right wing and for insurance purposes it became a D classification. A mechanic bought it, did it up and then sold it to the current owner who we are thinking of buying it off.

 

We are fortunate to have a budget of £30,000, which is what the seller would like for this MH. My question is, should it be much cheaper given it is a D category and is there any major reasons not to buy it? I have been searching for so long for something that fits our remit and this van is perfect in all other aspects. Although beginners at MH we have travelled long distances most summers with the kids camping so know the rough and sweet of camping/travelling with kids and we see this van to be something we will use for many many years in all weathers.

 

Thank you!!

 

Lucy

[Billggski]

A D category vehicle can be a cheap way to buy a better one than you could usually afford.

 

Category 'D'

 

All other repairable vehicles. The estimated repair costs do not exceed the pre-accident value of the vehicle, but it remains more cost-effective for the insurance company to dispose of it. For example, the cost of providing a hire car to the policy holder for a long period would, when added to the repair costs, total more than the pre-accident value of the vehicle. Alternatively, a vehicle may be recorded as category 'D' because it was stolen and only recovered after the policy holder had been paid out.

 

The log book (V5) for Cat 'D' vehicles will be issued upon application. They do not require a VIC check

 

But you will have to sell it for less when you come to change it, so the saving is much less than it appears, and dealers won't touch, or offer a very low trade in price.

With your budget you could buy a nearly new Moho, and if you drop on a bargain you could limit your depreciation or even make a profit.

[Keithl]

Hi and welcome to the forum,

 

My suggestion would be if you are really interested in it then get a full independent inspection carried out before you part with any money.

 

You could use the likes of the Caravan Club, Camping and Caravanning Club or the Mobile Caravan Engineers Link for this inspection. It would be money very well spent!

 

Keith.

[Tall_Mike]

Hi,

 

As said there is no particular reason why not to buy a CAT D as long as you know what you are getting into, warts and all -

 

However sounds a little weak in that a "mechanic bought it, did it up and sold it on" - I would rather see a repair made by a qualified and warranted business with paperwork to match. I would be expecting the vendor to prove to me that the repairs have been properly undertaken, perhaps with a detailed report, before and after, insurance details etc.

 

It will weigh heavily on the vehicles value throughout the life of the van, - you may buy a bargain but when you sell it, it might be a little more difficult. I also believe that some insurance companies will not touch them and others require a premium or at least a sight of the mentioned report.

 

As far as I know there is no way of ever clearing the Cat D stamp that the vehicle will hold with the DVLA although I thought there might have been a method of certification, cannot find anything on this

 

Saying that - given the cost and difficulty of repairs to a motorhome, - Cat D is light damage, it doesn't take much, a few bent panels, maybe a wing to arrive in this situation and the vehicle is probably very sound.

 

If I were to buy a vehicle with a Cat D on it - I think I would it to be a cheap as chips, probably near the end if it's life, or one that I would probably never want to sell on- eg a classic VW - to give me plenty of fun, and if it all went south, no big deal, it all can be fixed with a strong User following - But not using the amount of money you are thinking about.

 

 

[LucyK]

Thank you everyone! This is all really, really useful. Very grateful for your advice!

[vindiboy]

I was going to buy a Cat D car recently , but my Insurance company [COMFORT } would not Insure it so I never bought it ??

[George Collings]

Another factor to consider is just what happened to the vehicle.If the last owner is shown on the logbook it would be a good idea to contact them.

 

Flood damage depending on how deep might only affect the mechanical side but not reach the habitation. A quick external clean up change of lubricants and its almost impossible to know what damage there might be to the gearbox and even engine.

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m guessing this is the vehicle Lucy is considering:

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/hymer-exsis-522-2009-5-berth-ford-chassis-2.2-tdi-21-500-miles-only/1162809766

 

Although the vehicle is advertised as “2009” I notice that it has a 5-speed transmission. My understanding is that a 6-speed transmission for front-wheel-drive Ford Transit Mk 7s was introduced in late-2007, together with an uplift of engine-power from 130PS to 140PS.

 

Motorhomes are often built on ‘old’ chassis and can hang around for long periods at dealerships before being first UK-registered, but it’s worth mentioning that the 1st and reverse ratios of the 5-speed gearbox are pretty high, potentially stressing the clutch when manoeuvring on steep inclines. Best for Lucy to be aware of this and to make sure that there are no symptoms of possible clutch-related problems.

 

I also note that the vehicle was on sale in December 2015, so a cheeky offer well below £30k might be worth trying.

[George Collings]

Ask yourself, why would an insurance company would devalue a vehicle by registering it as Cat D when the repair was relatively simple.

[Barryrj]

Just for your information about 18 months ago I bought a similar Hymer, a 2008 RHD 562 Exsis i, that had done less than 10,000 miles, for less than £30,000. I was a private sale with no previous accident damage. My point being that I don't think the one you are looking at is particularly cheap and not cat D price. Great motorhome thought. I have added 10,000 miles with no problems except a broken front left hand light cluster which luckily was covered by my insurance.

[Brian Kirby]

LucyK - 2016-04-11 9:00 AM....................................It's in immaculate condition internally, mechanically it is sound and has a very low milage. at 21,000. But it is a "D" class as it's first owner had minor accident to the right wing and for insurance purposes it became a D classification. A mechanic bought it, did it up and then sold it to the current owner who we are thinking of buying it off.

 

We are fortunate to have a budget of £30,000, which is what the seller would like for this MH. ..........................Lucy

I think I would do several things before buying.

 

I would get it to a Ford main dealership (find one that says it is a Transit expert, you'll get them off the Ford website), explain its history to them, and ask them to give it a thorough mechanical inspection, paying particular attention to the area that you think was repaired. Either that, or the inspection Keith suggests, but I think it needs to be inspected on a hoist and not by someone sliding underneath. An alternative might be an MOT test centre with an adequate hoist, who would probably be willing to give it a critical inspection rather than a full test - assuming it doesn't need a new MoT.

 

I would find the nearest Hymer dealership with a decent repair shop (or ask them where they would send a damaged vehicle for body repairs), and get it to them (or the repairer) with the same story, and then ask them to inspect the repair and say whether it has been properly done.

 

I would see if an insurer (possibly your existing car insurer, or anyone else) can look into its Cat D status and give any additional insights into why it was given that designation, whether the damage was recorded, and whether there is any way it can be lifted. I would also check thoroughly if any of the specialist motorhome insurers would insure it.

 

My point is that a minor accident should not result in the vehicle being written off as not economically repairable. In other words, they judged the total cost of repairs would exceed the market value of the van at the time of the claim. The Hymer dealer should be able to ascertain its historic value, if you can say when it was damaged. I'd be a little surprised if it was written off for much less than the present owner is asking, which implies a lot of repair cost (though they also take into account the added costs of car hire etc), so the term "minor" seems a bit "relative" to me! :-)

 

The front end is one large GRP moulding, the headlamps are in the region of £1,000 a pop, windscreen about £2,500, and the bonnet panel would be extra. Then it has to be sprayed to match.

 

I gather that body parts from Hymer are not too bad to obtain, assuming that was done. However, a little skilled work on damaged GRP results in a very convincing looking repair, but part of the strength of the front of the vehicle is in that moulding. If it had split, and has not been fully reinforced when repaired, but merely filled and re-profiled, it could be prone to cracking along the line of damage in future, and possibly to splitting very easily if subjected to a further bump, leaving aside how it might perform in a more serious accident.

 

The structures of motorhomes are very light, and a shock on the front will inevitably have transmitted into the aluminium clad bodywork behind. It needs highly critical inspection for ripples or out of shape joints, to be certain that the damage was limited and has been fully and properly repaired.

 

It could be an excellent buy: or it could turn into a costly nightmare with sharply reduced resale value if it turns out to have been a slick cosmetic repair that hasn't dealt with underlying residual damage. So, it is a risk until you can be confident that all is as it should be.

 

I've just noticed that the seller says it was repaired by a "specialist repairer", not a mechanic, and appears to have some knowledge of the history. Might be worth seeing if he will say who did the repairs, and then contacting them, as I'd guess they will remember it, and probably have records of what was done.

 

Finally, isn't that phone number a mobile? Seems odd for a property owning motorhomer to have only a mobile number. However, you seem to have seen it, so did the address feel "right" with the seller obviously in occupation of the property? Good luck, but tread carefully. It may be genuine, but it may not.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-04-11 3:40 PM

 

I also note that the vehicle was on sale in December 2015, so a cheeky offer well below £30k might be worth trying.

 

I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole.

 

Check the similarity of the advert for it here on eBay from Jan 2015 - which is spookily similar, except for a lower mileage and no mention of Cat D.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hymer-Exsis-522-2009-5-berth-Ford-Chassis-2-2-TDi-16-500-miles-34-500-ONO-/391016265277

 

It could, of course, be quite above board, but the decals surely aren't the originals, which speaks to me of more damage than just a front wing. (and Derek is correct, a 2009 chassis s/be 140bhp 6-speed).

 

Damaged body transferred to an older chassis?

 

Too many questions for me.

[aandncaravan]

Lucy, a Cat D vehicle repaired to the manufacturers spec shouldn't be any different to a non Cat D van. However, Cat D damaged vehicles are generally bought by people with one primary aim, and that is to turn around as big a profit as possible. That this was bought by a 'fixer' suggests the repair is unlikely to be done to the manufacturers recommendations?

 

 

You have had a lot of very good advice from various people. Generally the advice has suggested caution. If you buy it, then anyone thinking of buying it from you in 'x' years time will get exactly the same advice. That is why Cat D vehicles are worth thousands less than a none accident damaged van.

 

The mismatch of the years is a real concern. If it is a 2007, with Cat D, it could be worth almost £10k less than that asking price?

 

[zombies]

Hi

 

I bought a Cat D via insurance auction.

Described as stripped, just toilet door and fridge missing, broken window latches.

Took a gamble and bought without viewing and trusted their write up (except for Stripped but that could just be a listing option) i dId think the low mileage suspect.

Won the auction, took a 7 hour train and taxi and 7 hour back.

 

Got home found a folder full of info and full service history.

Got the parts replaced etc all good, no horrors.

There are a couple of things but it's a 1997 transit (no rust) based but all in all very pleased with it.

 

I don't just buy anything but I do tend to buy unseen, same with our 2 cars. No issues.

 

Not recommending it but it depends where it's from and advert text.

 

Edit to add.

In some ways I prefer Cat D sales as you know the truth about the vehicle.

I have just had a mot garage damage my car and it's being repaired, it won't be listed and only I will know. It is only a wing (£1900 work) but it could be cat D. Lots of cars out there that you don't know it's history. A Cat D tells you.

 

[Geeco]

This post and the replies has been to say the least interesting. I started to read about a "D class" & I wondered if that was a new class of MH. No it turned out to be a write off rebirthed legally. The advice offered on this forum is as good IMHO as you could ever have expected in order to make a good decision to buy or not. I guess that is why I rate this forum as the best from the half dozen I review regularly. That really reflects on the contributors who take the time & effort to offer their wise comments & experience. Thanks guys another first class effort, I am sure the OP will appreciate it also.

Cheers, 

[Keithl]

Lucy,

 

Regarding the possible confusion on build dates, there is a Ford website called Ford ETIS which gives you build date and service history. You may need the VIN if the registration number does not work. It finds my OH's Ford car OK so worth a try.

 

http://www.etis.ford.com/vehicleSelection.do

 

Keith.

[colin]

zombies - 2016-04-11 10:48 PM

 

 

Edit to add.

In some ways I prefer Cat D sales as you know the truth about the vehicle.

 

 

A friend of mine was asked by police to id his old Saab which had been classed cat D, just a glance and he could tell them it wasn't the same car, and just a little further investigation and he was able to show them where the vin from his old car had been welded in.

[Robinhood]

...there is one possible explanation for the apparent conflict in dates.

 

At one point (and I think it was whilst Brownhills went through administration some time before they gave up the Hymer marque, my memory was that there was (a significant) batch of RHD vehicles that were built, but not released from the factory.

 

They hit the market quite late (and a number at "special" prices) which might account for late registration of an early 2007 chassis.

 

Of course, my memory may be playing up, or it might have been at a slightly different time (if pushed, I would guess a little later).

[Derek Uzzell]

The Transit-based Exsis I 522 was first marketed by Hymer for the 2007 model-year and was evidently available in the UK in RHD format in 2007.

 

http://www.becksmotorhomes.com/vehicle/2007-hymer-exsis-i522

 

I don’t think there’s anything necessarily ‘suspicious’ about the 2009 year being quoted in the advert for this vehicle, as it’s commonplace for motorhome owners to quote their vehicle’s year of first UK-registration rather than its year of manufacture.

 

In this instance it’s possible that the Transit platform-chassis on which the Exsis being advertised was built may have left Ford’s Turkish factory in 2007 and - if that’s the case - original equipment that might still be fitted to the motorhome (tyres, batteries, etc.) would be a good deal older than anticipated. It would be sensible to confirm the Ford and Hymer dates of manufacture before purchase.

 

As Robinhood has pointed out, the decals on the advertised motorhome do not match any photos of other Exsis I models, which does suggest that the accident damage was significant.

[Robinhood]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-04-12 9:35 AM

 

.....which does suggest that the accident damage was significant.

 

...the thing that concerns me, Derek, is that Cat D in almost all cases (stolen/recovered being one that isn't) means that the vehicle was "uneconomic to repair".

 

Now this doesn't mean that the cost of repairs is greater than the value of the vehicle, but it does mean that the overall cost to the insurance company of the repairs and the overall package (recovery, storage, inspection, repair, temporary replacement vehicle, etc.) is more than any pay-out.

 

Given that the add-ons might commonly amount to several thousand pounds, Cat D for a lower-value vehicle can be quite common, but to pay out what must have been in the order of £40K to write-off a vehicle implies to me that the amount of damage and repair cost contributing to the Cat D decision was probably quite high.

 

That, combined with the "non Hymer" decals, raises questions for me.

 

I don't like the advert history either.

[aandncaravan]

Zombies, In your case you were buying it prior to repair, so you saw it as it was.

 

This is being offered for sale after a 'repair' with no photo evidence of what it was like prior to repair, what has been repaired or to what standard.

 

 

Your example about the MOT accident repair is a good one, but that was done by a Garage you know and hopefully to a standard. You saw what it was like before the repair, and after the repair. That makes it easier to check it was done correctly.

 

This is different in that it was bought by a mechanic to 'do up' at a profit. That often means the profit is more important than doing it right.

As possibly evidenced by the decals?

 

 

[Mike B.]

Guys my compliments!

 

This has got to be one of the most if not the most informative thread I have seen on here for months if not years. Informative, explanatory, advisable and various explanations to 'abnormalities'

 

How refreshing to read a thread without griping, bitching, arguing and going of topic and personalities becoming involved

Well done all contributors!

Mike

[LucyK]

Thank you everyone for the wealth of information. We've visited the seller at his home and have had a an thorough mechanical inspection which shows it's in very good order. It does seem like it's all above board . But given everything you've suggested here re the dates it's still a concern. We're taking this weekend to decide whether to take things further. Thank you all so much once again, this forum is fantastic!

[LucyK]

Hi, this is exactly the same van. Thank you for flagging this up we will look further into it

[LucyK]

Derek Uzzell - 2016-04-12 9:35 AM

 

The Transit-based Exsis I 522 was first marketed by Hymer for the 2007 model-year and was evidently available in the UK in RHD format in 2007.

 

http://www.becksmotorhomes.com/vehicle/2007-hymer-exsis-i522

 

I don’t think there’s anything necessarily ‘suspicious’ about the 2009 year being quoted in the advert for this vehicle, as it’s commonplace for motorhome owners to quote their vehicle’s year of first UK-registration rather than its year of manufacture.

 

In this instance it’s possible that the Transit platform-chassis on which the Exsis being advertised was built may have left Ford’s Turkish factory in 2007 and - if that’s the case - original equipment that might still be fitted to the motorhome (tyres, batteries, etc.) would be a good deal older than anticipated. It would be sensible to confirm the Ford and Hymer dates of manufacture before purchase.

 

As Robinhood has pointed out, the decals on the advertised motorhome do not match any photos of other Exsis I models, which does suggest that the accident damage was significant.

 

The owner is Turkish so this could make sense . We'll investigate. Thank you !!