Advice on Autotrail Warranty and Dealer Support

[Brian Kirby]

I think the wise advice on shows is to go, gather as much information as you can on vans that appeal to you, retire for the night, digest the information gathered (take an aspirin or two), sleep on it, and then go back with a shortlist to really go over those shortlisted vans.

 

Be a bit leery around any manufacturer's "show specials" etc. as you may well be speaking to a dealer on the stand and who, quite possibly, is based at the opposite end of the country to you! Not so good when it comes to delivery or warranty issues.

 

Also, the almost universal advice is to select you dealer as carefully as you select your van. If anything does go wrong, it will be the dealer who you have to rely on to get it put right - and not all dealers are equal in that respect. Make sure you know who you are dealing with, as it is not always immediately obvious who is who on a manufacturer's stand.

[Bop]

Brian Kirby - 2017-02-15 4:41 PM

 

I think the wise advice on shows is to go, gather as much information as you can on vans that appeal to you, retire for the night, digest the information gathered (take an aspirin or two), sleep on it, and then go back with a shortlist to really go over those shortlisted vans.

 

Be a bit leery around any manufacturer's "show specials" etc. as you may well be speaking to a dealer on the stand and who, quite possibly, is based at the opposite end of the country to you! Not so good when it comes to delivery or warranty issues.

 

Also, the almost universal advice is to select you dealer as carefully as you select your van. If anything does go wrong, it will be the dealer who you have to rely on to get it put right - and not all dealers are equal in that respect. Make sure you know who you are dealing with, as it is not always immediately obvious who is who on a manufacturer's stand.

 

Thanks Brian, that's good inside info on what to look out for. In light of what you've highlighted in your post I will need to be careful or else I'll end up in the same dilemma as the one that I'm in now.

 

Thanks again - always appreciated,

 

Andrew

[Bop]

Team,

 

Thanks for all of the great advice over recent days. Mrs Bop and I have just returned from Brownhills (a truly fabulous experience) and we're now in negotiations to get rid of the Autotrail for a Rapido :-)

 

Regards to you all,

 

Andrew

[Mike88]

Bop - 2017-02-19 7:30 PM

 

Team,

 

Thanks for all of the great advice over recent days. Mrs Bop and I have just returned from Brownhills (a truly fabulous experience) and we're now in negotiations to get rid of the Autotrail for a Rapido :-)

 

Regards to you all,

 

Andrew

 

If you post the model of your Rapido no doubt others on here will be able tp provide you with pointers.

[Bop]

Mike88 - 2017-02-19 7:49 PM

 

Bop - 2017-02-19 7:30 PM

 

Team,

 

Thanks for all of the great advice over recent days. Mrs Bop and I have just returned from Brownhills (a truly fabulous experience) and we're now in negotiations to get rid of the Autotrail for a Rapido :-)

 

Regards to you all,

 

Andrew

 

If you post the model of your Rapido no doubt others on here will be able tp provide you with pointers.

 

Mike

 

We are looking at the Rapido 696FF (55-Edition) with an MTPLM of circa 3.7T. This will give a load capacity of about 640kg which is ideal for us.

 

The garage is fantastic and the interior makes the Autotrail range look like something that Lada would manufacture in the 80's; sorry to the AT guys but the interiors really do look like a cardboard kit.

 

Mrs Bop and I have looked at circa 400+ motorhomes this weekend and this seemed to tick the majority of the boxes. We started looking at the more expensive Rapidos but we just can't justify the cost and this one oozes quality.

 

I hope it doesn't sound too shallow but we just loved the Brownshill Club features and events so we aim to be active paricants too.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

[silverback]

just to readdress on autotrail, owned ours for 5 years come july, had some problems and as the op question he wanted to know about warranty and dealer support, each time we had problems it was sorted by our dealer no questions asked!!! the after market warranty by mb&g has also been good!!! fiat have also been good!!! that is because each year we get it hab checked £180 by the dealer and serviced by fiat, expensive yes but in the long term not! and believe me a rapido/hymer/burstner/elldis/swift/ i could go on are all powered by fiat and all manufacturers have issues, cos i have seen them 1st hand even on concordes! let me ask you this if the truma heating or dometic fridge fails who's fault is that? the manufacturers of said product not the builder of the motorhome! all have problems...i have a list as long as my arm just with fiat 3 main ecu 1 airbag ecu, water in the engine bay, 2 new scuttles, it goes on...it is just not autotrail, when you buy your new rapido get back to us in a year, make a note, i dare you. bet you don't, but i have.

regards

Jonathan

[Mike88]

Bop. Just a couple of comments on the Rapido you are proposing to buy. It looks fabulous. However, the rear overhang on the vehicle is very long so you could have problems with grounding in hilly areas. For example I could not reverse that vehicle onto my drive as the rear would hit against the camber on the pavement crossing. Also you may find that descending steep hills on a bend could end up with the same problem. Some time ago someone on here posted a video of his van being stuck fast in the middle of nowhere having grounded his vehicle while descending a hill in the middle of nowhere. But of course in more normal traffic/road situations no such problem will arise.

 

The other point is that are you sure that a 130bhp engine for a heavy van is up to the job. I must confess that I always opt for the most powerful option available and if there is an engine upgrade option I would seriously consider paying the additional cost.

[Derek Uzzell]

Andrew

 

The reality is that new coach built motorhomes are much closer to new houses than new cars, as the latter’s construction methodology is heavily automated, whereas the former’s has a high degree of human input. And where humans are on stage, Mr Screw-Up waits in the wings.

 

I bought my Rapido 640F new in 2015. As soon as the vehicle had arrived in the UK my wife and I visited the dealership and inspected the motorhome pretty closely. This revealed that the sliding door designed to isolate the bedroom area from the kitchen/lounge was loose and this had been corrected by the time we took delivery. (It’s a daft, heavy poorly executed idea and the door’s sliding action is still far from ideal. Doesn’t really matter, though, as we never shut it.)

 

Rapido advertises that each motorhome is sprayed with water to confirm that it is leak free. Our 640F did not leak until I put it on chocks at the front when water pooled on the roof’s rear and waterfalled down inside into the garage. A quick check showed that there was a hole in the sealant on the roof in one corner. I addressed the problem myself and the leaking stopped.

 

The installation of the Truma Combi heating system conflicts badly with Truma’s recommendations - I’ve improved matters somewhat but it’s a basic design problem and Rapidos are swine to disassemble to make major changes.

 

The kitchen-tap was inadequately tightened to the worktop and the hinged kitchen worktop extension drooped downwards. The guide-rods for the Remis windscreen blind weren’t attached to the screen-pillar on one side. I DIY-fixed all these faults. I hate the Pioneer radio that has now lost its MW function (not that I much care).

 

My wife does not rate the 640F's upholstery compared with our previous Hobby and Rapido’s policy of disguising every screw head with a little circle of sticky paper is hardly hi-tec.

 

However, the Rapido’s semi-island bed is much more comfortable than the Hobby’s (which is primarily why we bought the 640F) and I quite like the furniture finish and the garage.

 

I don’t know what “expensive” means to you, but the 696FF model is far from cheap to begin with and you’ll undoubtedly wish to enhance the basic specification. (Do you really need a drop-down front bed?) I’m certainly not going to attempt to dissuade you from buying a Rapido, but I suggest you approach this with your eyes wide open and not believe that the French company’s build quality is beyond reproach or be unduly swayed by Brownhills Club benefits.

[PeterCK]

Further to the comment about the right layout, especially for dining, we have just bought an Imala 625 with the rear lounge, only 6.4 mtrs long, but found putting the standard table up for every meal was a pain. I have now taken out the centre cushion at the rear and installed a chest of drawers out of a caravan. This gives more drawer space and a flip up top for dining.

Such a conversion I think is something Autotrail would benefit from offering.

[Bop]

Mike, Derek,

 

Many thanks for the advice and the detailed points relating to your knowledge of the Rapido MH range. I am looking to acquire a 150BHP version of the van but I can change the various engine outputs, namely torque, via a specialis rolling road which I use quite often for my own cars and bikes.

 

I have to admit that I'm getting a wee bit confused by the whole MH selection-thing. I have read a countless number of threads on the various different forums and I think that I have managed to find numerous threads on each manufacturer, stating that each one is poor in some form and to various different degrees of problems etc.

 

Mrs Bop and I have looked at a few different brands recently (Autotrail, Swift, Bessacarr, Hobby, Rapido, Hymer, Tribute, Elddis, Pilote), plus a good number of pre-owned vehicles, and they all seem to have their own set of affiliated niggles.

 

There is no sarcasm intended here but I'm wondering if I should just buy a 110 Defender 300TDi and stick a roof tent on the top. I am certain that Mrs Bop wouldn't consider this option but the big positive is that I know where I am with agricultural vehicles :-)

 

We have definitely decided to get rid of our Autotrail after seeing the Rapido range at the weekend; there is absolutely no comparison between the internal quality (looks-wise) of the Rapido. I do like the AT from the outside and it seems to have good ground clearance but the inside looks like a Weetabix box and Mrs Bop will not tolerate an AT van after seeing the Rapido.

 

Mike: We intend to use our MH for visiting the larger sites so the likes of farmers fields, some CCLs and one or two club sites will be on our avoid list. If we maintain this type of outlook then I'm hoping that MH choices will be suitable.

 

All in all, it seems that the purchase of a MH is a very hit and miss type of sport.

 

If anyone should have a 10-sided coin that I can flip then do shout out and I'll buy it off you :-)

 

Very best to all,

 

Andrew

 

[Brian Kirby]

Mike88 - 2017-02-21 9:25 AM

 

Bop. Just a couple of comments on the Rapido you are proposing to buy. It looks fabulous. However, the rear overhang on the vehicle is very long so you could have problems with grounding in hilly areas. For example I could not reverse that vehicle onto my drive as the rear would hit against the camber on the pavement crossing. Also you may find that descending steep hills on a bend could end up with the same problem. Some time ago someone on here posted a video of his van being stuck fast in the middle of nowhere having grounded his vehicle while descending a hill in the middle of nowhere. But of course in more normal traffic/road situations no such problem will arise.

 

The other point is that are you sure that a 130bhp engine for a heavy van is up to the job. I must confess that I always opt for the most powerful option available and if there is an engine upgrade option I would seriously consider paying the additional cost.

Agreed! Plus, check that payload. The water tank is 120L, but the payload is declared with only 20L on board. Fill the water tank, and you lose 100kg of your payload!

 

I assume you're happy with the 2.35 metre width, which will be wider than your AT?

 

Re the rear overhang, if you take advantage of the garage, you may well encounter grounding problems, for example on/off ferries, as well as places mentioned by Mike88. Easily (and reasonably cheaply) rectified by fitting air assistance to the rear to restore the unladen ride height.

 

More especially, though, your van (assuming a 2017 model) is listed at 3,650kg. The catalogue refers to "unladen weight" of 3,060kg, dropping your payload to 590kg before you add any accessories such as an awning.

 

Do a few sums before you get too far in, as I'm beginning to suspect that the actual, usable, payload, may be quite a bit less than you are anticipating. In fact, borderline for longer term travel, IMO. Since you're going for a van over 3.5 tonnes, I think I'd be inclined to opt for the "heavy" Chassis and go to 4.4 tonnes.

 

I'd also be inclined to go for the 150ps engine in lieu of the 130. But see also below.

 

Final thought. Long rear overhangs tend to result in load accumulating around the rear axle. The axle thus rapidly approaches its legal limit. My suspicion, with a 7.5 metre long van running on the "light" chassis, is that you'll run out of rear axle load capacity before you reach your 3,650kg MAM, meaning that the calculated payload isn't, actually, fully available in normal use. Another reason to consider the "heavy" chassis at 4.4 tonnes, which has higher permissible axle loads and comes with the 150ps engine (170ps option)? It will ride a bit harder, due to the tougher springing, but better that than insufficient payload, IMO.

[Bop]

Brian Kirby - 2017-02-21 7:19 PM

 

Mike88 - 2017-02-21 9:25 AM

 

Bop. Just a couple of comments on the Rapido you are proposing to buy. It looks fabulous. However, the rear overhang on the vehicle is very long so you could have problems with grounding in hilly areas. For example I could not reverse that vehicle onto my drive as the rear would hit against the camber on the pavement crossing. Also you may find that descending steep hills on a bend could end up with the same problem. Some time ago someone on here posted a video of his van being stuck fast in the middle of nowhere having grounded his vehicle while descending a hill in the middle of nowhere. But of course in more normal traffic/road situations no such problem will arise.

 

The other point is that are you sure that a 130bhp engine for a heavy van is up to the job. I must confess that I always opt for the most powerful option available and if there is an engine upgrade option I would seriously consider paying the additional cost.

Agreed! Plus, check that payload. The water tank is 120L, but the payload is declared with only 20L on board. Fill the water tank, and you lose 100kg of your payload!

 

I assume you're happy with the 2.35 metre width, which will be wider than your AT?

 

Re the rear overhang, if you take advantage of the garage, you may well encounter grounding problems, for example on/off ferries, as well as places mentioned by Mike88. Easily (and reasonably cheaply) rectified by fitting air assistance to the rear to restore the unladen ride height.

 

More especially, though, your van (assuming a 2017 model) is listed at 3,650kg. The catalogue refers to "unladen weight" of 3,060kg, dropping your payload to 590kg before you add any accessories such as an awning.

 

Do a few sums before you get too far in, as I'm beginning to suspect that the actual, usable, payload, may be quite a bit less than you are anticipating. In fact, borderline for longer term travel, IMO. Since you're going for a van over 3.5 tonnes, I think I'd be inclined to opt for the "heavy" Chassis and go to 4.4 tonnes.

 

I'd also be inclined to go for the 150ps engine in lieu of the 130. But see also below.

 

Final thought. Long rear overhangs tend to result in load accumulating around the rear axle. The axle thus rapidly approaches its legal limit. My suspicion, with a 7.5 metre long van running on the "light" chassis, is that you'll run out of rear axle load capacity before you reach your 3,650kg MAM, meaning that the calculated payload isn't, actually, fully available in normal use. Another reason to consider the "heavy" chassis at 4.4 tonnes, which has higher permissible axle loads and comes with the 150ps engine (170ps option)? It will ride a bit harder, due to the tougher springing, but better that than insufficient payload, IMO.

 

Brian,

 

I've used the word 'fantastic' a few times but the content of your post in synch with Mikes is incredibly useful stuff - many thanks. I think a few of the guys will learn from its content.

 

Our current AT MH has an unladen weight of 3040kg with a max setting of 3650kg so horses for courses they are very similar. That being said, the points which you mention regarding the Rapido's garage and the collective mass beyond the rear of the axle is very important and may effect the actual realtime load capacity of the van.

 

Mrs Bop and I are hoping to travel to the NEC this weekend so we'll discuss the heavy option with the dealer and see what they'll charge for the change.

 

Can you explain the air assistance system to me please Brian. Is this an electronic controlled compressor system that controls the suspension housings from the cab. I'm aware of the costs for adding them to a car but not to a MH.

 

Many thanks indeed,

 

Andrew

 

(Before I forget, the AT is 2.35m wide (mirrors folded) so I'm assuming that it is similar to the Rapido).

[Keithl]

Bop - 2017-02-21 7:46 PM

 

Our current AT MH has an unladen weight of 3040kg...

 

Andrew

 

Andrew,

 

Are you aware of MH speed limits in the UK and Unladen weight?

 

If you are then I apologise in advance but if not read on...

 

A MH with an Unladen weight not exceeding 3,050 kg has the same speed limits as a car BUT if the Unladen weight exceeds 3,050 kg then different speed limits apply.

 

Here is an extract from Gov.uk

 

National speed limits mph

Type of vehicle

Built-up areas Single carriageways Dual carriageways Motorways

Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)

30 60 70 70

Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)

30 50 60 70

 

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

 

Unladen weights are very difficult to actually weigh and even more difficult to prove at the side of the road but the law is the law so you need to be aware of it.

 

Keith.

[crocs]

Bop - 2017-02-21 6:55 PM

 

Mike, Derek,

 

Many thanks for the advice and the detailed points relating to your knowledge of the Rapido MH range. I am looking to acquire a 150BHP version of the van but I can change the various engine outputs, namely torque, via a specialis rolling road which I use quite often for my own cars and bikes.

 

I have to admit that I'm getting a wee bit confused by the whole MH selection-thing. I have read a countless number of threads on the various different forums and I think that I have managed to find numerous threads on each manufacturer, stating that each one is poor in some form and to various different degrees of problems etc.

 

Mrs Bop and I have looked at a few different brands recently (Autotrail, Swift, Bessacarr, Hobby, Rapido, Hymer, Tribute, Elddis, Pilote), plus a good number of pre-owned vehicles, and they all seem to have their own set of affiliated niggles.

 

There is no sarcasm intended here but I'm wondering if I should just buy a 110 Defender 300TDi and stick a roof tent on the top. I am certain that Mrs Bop wouldn't consider this option but the big positive is that I know where I am with agricultural vehicles :-)

 

We have definitely decided to get rid of our Autotrail after seeing the Rapido range at the weekend; there is absolutely no comparison between the internal quality (looks-wise) of the Rapido. I do like the AT from the outside and it seems to have good ground clearance but the inside looks like a Weetabix box and Mrs Bop will not tolerate an AT van after seeing the Rapido.

 

Mike: We intend to use our MH for visiting the larger sites so the likes of farmers fields, some CCLs and one or two club sites will be on our avoid list. If we maintain this type of outlook then I'm hoping that MH choices will be suitable.

 

All in all, it seems that the purchase of a MH is a very hit and miss type of sport.

 

If anyone should have a 10-sided coin that I can flip then do shout out and I'll buy it off you :-)

 

Very best to all,

 

Andrew

 

Andrew

 

I've followed this thread with interest and my only advice would be to view most brands with open eyes. The AT which you bought is their budget model and it doesn't sound as if you or Mrs Bop are ideally suited to that. But you may find a difference if you viewed AT's Frontier range.

 

As Derek said, motorhomes are not built to car standards. Or, using a car analogy, a motorhome is a Morgan compared to a mass produced Ford, so more issues are expected.

 

And don't let forums sway you too much. In 2006, I bought a new Autotrail Grande Frontier (there, I'm 'outed') their only A class venture, which was slated on the forums. Admittedly, there were a number of teething problems but, once sorted, it was a fantastic motor home. I've now got an AT Savannah which I really like.

 

So, listen to all the advice but make up your own mind.

 

Robert

[Mike88]

"Can you explain the air assistance system to me please Brian. Is this an electronic controlled compressor system that controls the suspension housings from the cab. I'm aware of the costs for adding them to a car but not to a MH."

 

I had these fitted. Fitting took around 30 minutes while I waited. Obviously you would need to check whether this kit is suitable for the vehicle in question.

 

 

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/dunlop-suspension-fiat-ducato-x250-0606-p-1970.html

[Brian Kirby]

Bop - 2017-02-21 7:46 PM..............................Can you explain the air assistance system to me please Brian. Is this an electronic controlled compressor system that controls the suspension housings from the cab. I'm aware of the costs for adding them to a car but not to a MH.

 

Many thanks indeed,

 

Andrew

 

(Before I forget, the AT is 2.35m wide (mirrors folded) so I'm assuming that it is similar to the Rapido).

Re width, my mistake. I had thought most ATs were a little narrower than yours.

 

You can have a compressor, or you can have just the air assistance units with manual inflation. I had the latter on our previous van, because a longish rear overhang caused a few grounding problems. I inflated the air springs to restore to the fully laden van its unladen rear end height above ground. For that purpose I used a bicycle pump, of which only a few strokes were needed about twice yearly. Simple, cheap, and very effective. Mine was Driverite by Firestone.

[Bop]

Keithl - 2017-02-21 7:55 PM

 

Bop - 2017-02-21 7:46 PM

 

Our current AT MH has an unladen weight of 3040kg...

 

Andrew

 

Andrew,

 

Are you aware of MH speed limits in the UK and Unladen weight?

 

If you are then I apologise in advance but if not read on...

 

A MH with an Unladen weight not exceeding 3,050 kg has the same speed limits as a car BUT if the Unladen weight exceeds 3,050 kg then different speed limits apply.

 

Here is an extract from Gov.uk

 

National speed limits mph

Type of vehicle

Built-up areas Single carriageways Dual carriageways Motorways

Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)

30 60 70 70

Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)

30 50 60 70

 

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

 

Unladen weights are very difficult to actually weigh and even more difficult to prove at the side of the road but the law is the law so you need to be aware of it.

 

Keith.

 

Hi Keith, I'm already aware of the speeds but thanks for posting-up anyway - much appreciated.

 

P.S. I hope the guy driving an Elddis on the A1 the other day reads your post as he clearly didn't know the limits. His van was not massive but it's safe to say that he was quicker than most cars on the road that day.

[Bop]

crocs - 2017-02-21 8:43 PM

 

Bop - 2017-02-21 6:55 PM

 

Mike, Derek,

 

Many thanks for the advice and the detailed points relating to your knowledge of the Rapido MH range. I am looking to acquire a 150BHP version of the van but I can change the various engine outputs, namely torque, via a specialis rolling road which I use quite often for my own cars and bikes.

 

I have to admit that I'm getting a wee bit confused by the whole MH selection-thing. I have read a countless number of threads on the various different forums and I think that I have managed to find numerous threads on each manufacturer, stating that each one is poor in some form and to various different degrees of problems etc.

 

Mrs Bop and I have looked at a few different brands recently (Autotrail, Swift, Bessacarr, Hobby, Rapido, Hymer, Tribute, Elddis, Pilote), plus a good number of pre-owned vehicles, and they all seem to have their own set of affiliated niggles.

 

There is no sarcasm intended here but I'm wondering if I should just buy a 110 Defender 300TDi and stick a roof tent on the top. I am certain that Mrs Bop wouldn't consider this option but the big positive is that I know where I am with agricultural vehicles :-)

 

We have definitely decided to get rid of our Autotrail after seeing the Rapido range at the weekend; there is absolutely no comparison between the internal quality (looks-wise) of the Rapido. I do like the AT from the outside and it seems to have good ground clearance but the inside looks like a Weetabix box and Mrs Bop will not tolerate an AT van after seeing the Rapido.

 

Mike: We intend to use our MH for visiting the larger sites so the likes of farmers fields, some CCLs and one or two club sites will be on our avoid list. If we maintain this type of outlook then I'm hoping that MH choices will be suitable.

 

All in all, it seems that the purchase of a MH is a very hit and miss type of sport.

 

If anyone should have a 10-sided coin that I can flip then do shout out and I'll buy it off you :-)

 

Very best to all,

 

Andrew

 

Andrew

 

I've followed this thread with interest and my only advice would be to view most brands with open eyes. The AT which you bought is their budget model and it doesn't sound as if you or Mrs Bop are ideally suited to that. But you may find a difference if you viewed AT's Frontier range.

 

As Derek said, motorhomes are not built to car standards. Or, using a car analogy, a motorhome is a Morgan compared to a mass produced Ford, so more issues are expected.

 

And don't let forums sway you too much. In 2006, I bought a new Autotrail Grande Frontier (there, I'm 'outed') their only A class venture, which was slated on the forums. Admittedly, there were a number of teething problems but, once sorted, it was a fantastic motor home. I've now got an AT Savannah which I really like.

 

So, listen to all the advice but make up your own mind.

 

Robert

 

Thanks Robert, we are destined to visit the NEC on Saturday so Mrs Bop and I will have a good hunt around for that perfect MH (does one exist).

 

The Part Exchange deal by Brownhills on a new AT Van is truly superb compared to the price that I quoted at the beginning of this thread. I'm just not sure how my supplying dealer can offer me thousands of pounds less than someone else. The economies of scale may play a part but even so...............? That being said I don't want the financial bit to take over our final decision.

 

I have even considered buying a Ford transit van and equipping it with an external solar shower; double mattress and a £1 orange bucket from B&Q (just in case I awake in the night - wink wink). Mrs Bop can stay in a hotel while I experience all of the freedom that comes with living in a giant Tupperware box :-)

 

I'm not sure if the forum allows for any form of betting but perhaps Derek/Brian (as trusted fellows) should open a book on which MH we will buy.

 

All the best,

 

Andrew

[Bop]

Mike and Brian: Thanks for the air assistance info.

 

Very best,

 

Andrew

[Brian Kirby]

Bop - 2017-02-22 1:56 PM..........I have to admit that I'm getting a wee bit confused by the whole MH selection-thing. I have read a countless number of threads on the various different forums and I think that I have managed to find numerous threads on each manufacturer, stating that each one is poor in some form and to various different degrees of problems etc.

 

Mrs Bop and I have looked at a few different brands recently (Autotrail, Swift, Bessacarr, Hobby, Rapido, Hymer, Tribute, Elddis, Pilote), plus a good number of pre-owned vehicles, and they all seem to have their own set of affiliated niggles.

 

There is no sarcasm intended here but I'm wondering if I should just buy a 110 Defender 300TDi and stick a roof tent on the top. I am certain that Mrs Bop wouldn't consider this option but the big positive is that I know where I am with agricultural vehicles :-)

 

We have definitely decided to get rid of our Autotrail after seeing the Rapido range at the weekend; there is absolutely no comparison between the internal quality (looks-wise) of the Rapido. I do like the AT from the outside and it seems to have good ground clearance but the inside looks like a Weetabix box and Mrs Bop will not tolerate an AT van after seeing the Rapido.

 

Mike: We intend to use our MH for visiting the larger sites so the likes of farmers fields, some CCLs and one or two club sites will be on our avoid list. If we maintain this type of outlook then I'm hoping that MH choices will be suitable.

 

All in all, it seems that the purchase of a MH is a very hit and miss type of sport...........................Andrew

Selecting the right van is difficult. Some get it right first time, but many don't. It took us about two years of looking and hiring, and I still found the first van we bought (identical to the one we hired) was too wide (2.3M) for comfort on the roads we prefer to use (my fault - I steered clear of those roads in the hired van because a) it was unfamiliar, and b) there were various exclusions from the insurance).

 

So the second, and present, vans have been narrower (about 2.15M), which makes life on smaller roads a lot easier.

 

The quality of a van is below the skin, and good looks are no guide to that underlying quality. Over time, the quality will shine through as you will experience fewer warranty and other problems. All vans, because they are hand assembled, in a time constrained commercial environment, are prone to defects on, or soon after, delivery. Most are quite minor, and can be fixed by the owner in much the same way as most would do around the house. Nearly all vans have Truma space/water heaters, Waeco or Dometic fridges, Thetford or Dometic toilets, one of a small handful of manufacturer's transformer/charger units, ditto leisure batteries, ditto hobs/cookers, internal furniture/fittings from Italy (often Technoform), and Fiat mechanicals/running gear. The differences are mainly in the external shell of the habitation portion (what it is made from), the care with which it has been designed (in reality production engineered), and the skill with which it has been assembled. Select the right manufacturer and your chances of getting a fault free van straight from the box increase. This results in low warranty issues, so the dealers have less to do, meaning a) they should be receptive if a problem does arise and b) the manufacturer should be more relaxed about authorising repairs.

 

But, by far the most serious problem with vans is water ingress. First it is notoriously difficult to identify the source because, due to the way motorhomes are made, once it enters it will travel around "looking" for somewhere to come out - which will invariably be some way away from the entry point. Second, because once in (in part dependent on the form of construction used), it can do serious damage before it becomes detectable. So, lesson 1, look for vans with a good reputation for watertight construction (but don't assume that long water ingress warranties indicate an absence of ingress). Lesson 2, look for vans that are free, or nearly so, of wood in the body shell. Lesson 3, look for vans that allow water to run freely off roofs in all directions. Lesson 4, look at the roof, and especially at the way the side walls, and the front and rear fairings/mouldings are jointed together. A surprising number are jointed with a cover strip that is bedded onto sealant and then screwed down through the lot into the underlying structure. The cover strip stands proud of the roof and so traps water, which then sits against the cover strip (or a nearby rooflight) until it evaporates. A small error in application of sealant (or fixing cover strip) in these areas creates a disproportionate risk of ingress. Look at the average motorhome roof, and you will find all kinds of items that are bedded in sealant and screwed down. The fewer, the better, IMO.

 

This implies looking at the assembly details of the various possible makes, before concentrating too much on layouts or interiors. Once you identify the ones you think are well detailed and assembled (dealers in some brands will have samples of the construction to demonstrate how it is assembled), turn to sorting out which of their layouts come closest to your ideal. I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest you have a look at a Hymer or two, as the way the walls, roof and front and rear panels are jointed is particularly neat. For an encore, you may wish to look also as Pilote, who used to do something similar, though in different materials. I'm not sure how far Hymer's present construction has spread to other brands around the group, but it has been in use now for a number of years having been, I understand, adopted after Hymer acquired Niesmann and Bischoff, who had developed it. It might make a useful yardstick against which to assess the others.

 

There is an enormous number of makes and models on the UK market, but there are identifiable layout types that, once identified, tend to make narrowing down the field that bit easier. The greatest difficulty initially is trying to "think" one's self into living in something that is in a showroom. Your present advantage (albeit gained at some expense!) is that you have experience of living with one layout type, and know what you like and don't like about that. That allows you to use that experience to identify the sort of layout you think would work better. To that end, I'd suggest getting catalogues and looking at the layouts in those. You can then identify potential contenders on paper, and use the show, and dealers showrooms, to confirm those that meet your requirements. My personal experience is that extensive looking and visiting tends to result in everything becoming mashed together in the mind, when it is difficult to recall which was which, and where.

 

Nil desperandum - you'll get there!

[Bop]

Brian Kirby - 2017-02-22 3:32 PM

 

Selecting the right van is difficult. Some get it right first time, but many don't. It took us about two years of looking and hiring, and I still found the first van we bought (identical to the one we hired) was too wide (2.3M) for comfort on the roads we prefer to use (my fault - I steered clear of those roads in the hired van because a) it was unfamiliar, and b) there were various exclusions from the insurance).

 

So the second, and present, vans have been narrower (about 2.15M), which makes life on smaller roads a lot easier.

 

The quality of a van is below the skin, and good looks are no guide to that underlying quality. Over time, the quality will shine through as you will experience fewer warranty and other problems. All vans, because they are hand assembled, in a time constrained commercial environment, are prone to defects on, or soon after, delivery. Most are quite minor, and can be fixed by the owner in much the same way as most would do around the house. Nearly all vans have Truma space/water heaters, Waeco or Dometic fridges, Thetford or Dometic toilets, one of a small handful of manufacturer's transformer/charger units, ditto leisure batteries, ditto hobs/cookers, internal furniture/fittings from Italy (often Technoform), and Fiat mechanicals/running gear. The differences are mainly in the external shell of the habitation portion (what it is made from), the care with which it has been designed (in reality production engineered), and the skill with which it has been assembled. Select the right manufacturer and your chances of getting a fault free van straight from the box increase. This results in low warranty issues, so the dealers have less to do, meaning a) they should be receptive if a problem does arise and b) the manufacturer should be more relaxed about authorising repairs.

 

But, by far the most serious problem with vans is water ingress. First it is notoriously difficult to identify the source because, due to the way motorhomes are made, once it enters it will travel around "looking" for somewhere to come out - which will invariably be some way away from the entry point. Second, because once in (in part dependent on the form of construction used), it can do serious damage before it becomes detectable. So, lesson 1, look for vans with a good reputation for watertight construction (but don't assume that long water ingress warranties indicate an absence of ingress). Lesson 2, look for vans that are free, or nearly so, of wood in the body shell. Lesson 3, look for vans that allow water to run freely off roofs in all directions. Lesson 4, look at the roof, and especially at the way the side walls, and the front and rear fairings/mouldings are jointed together. A surprising number are jointed with a cover strip that is bedded onto sealant and then screwed down through the lot into the underlying structure. The cover strip stands proud of the roof and so traps water, which then sits against the cover strip (or a nearby rooflight) until it evaporates. A small error in application of sealant (or fixing cover strip) in these areas creates a disproportionate risk of ingress. Look at the average motorhome roof, and you will find all kinds of items that are bedded in sealant and screwed down. The fewer, the better, IMO.

 

This implies looking at the assembly details of the various possible makes, before concentrating too much on layouts or interiors. Once you identify the ones you think are well detailed and assembled (dealers in some brands will have samples of the construction to demonstrate how it is assembled), turn to sorting out which of their layouts come closest to your ideal. I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest you have a look at a Hymer or two, as the way the walls, roof and front and rear panels are jointed is particularly neat. For an encore, you may wish to look also as Pilote, who used to do something similar, though in different materials. I'm not sure how far Hymer's present construction has spread to other brands around the group, but it has been in use now for a number of years having been, I understand, adopted after Hymer acquired Niesmann and Bischoff, who had developed it. It might make a useful yardstick against which to assess the others.

 

There is an enormous number of makes and models on the UK market, but there are identifiable layout types that, once identified, tend to make narrowing down the field that bit easier. The greatest difficulty initially is trying to "think" one's self into living in something that is in a showroom. Your present advantage (albeit gained at some expense!) is that you have experience of living with one layout type, and know what you like and don't like about that. That allows you to use that experience to identify the sort of layout you think would work better. To that end, I'd suggest getting catalogues and looking at the layouts in those. You can then identify potential contenders on paper, and use the show, and dealers showrooms, to confirm those that meet your requirements. My personal experience is that extensive looking and visiting tends to result in everything becoming mashed together in the mind, when it is difficult to recall which was which, and where.

 

Nil desperandum - you'll get there!

 

Brian,

 

"Nil Desperandum Experto Crede" - meaning don't despair have faith in the experts, so that's where you fine fellows come into the equation ;-)

 

Regarding your Lesson-1 above; is there a thread that exists (on any forum) that defines the best of the motorhomes on the market today in terms of watertight construction. I suspect Hymer is up there but can anyone add to the list.

 

Lesson-2: That will be the first question I ask the dealers at the NEC on Saturday. Many thanks.

 

Lesson-3: This is a difficult one to ascertain on a first look IMO. The design of our Autotrail (as an example) allows for a significant amount of water to settle on its roof and this concerns me. It is now parked at a slight angle to allow for the water to flow off but, if the chassis was flat then the water would pool and subsequently freeze at times. I also note from my roof that the front GRP roof pod is connected via the same style join which you mention in your post above (a screwed and glued-down plastic strip) and this prevents the water from flowing away.

 

I have a whole pile of brochures in my 'blokes room' which I have studied in detail but it's all now blending into a mush as per your last point.

 

The big positive is that I have learnt a whole load of info from you guys so I'll go to the show on Saturday with my eyes peeled and my chequebook closed.

 

All the best, and thanks,

 

Andrew

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Bop - 2017-02-22 7:42 PM

 

...Lesson-3: This is a difficult one to ascertain on a first look IMO. The design of our Autotrail (as an example) allows for a significant amount of water to settle on its roof and this concerns me. It is now parked at a slight angle to allow for the water to flow off but, if the chassis was flat then the water would pool and subsequently freeze at times. I also note from my roof that the front GRP roof pod is connected via the same style join which you mention in your post above (a screwed and glued-down plastic strip) and this prevents the water from flowing away...

 

 

Andrew

 

If that’s a major concern for you, you’ll need to reject Rapido 6 and 8 models, as their roof construction and roof shape is exaclty as you’ve described.

[Bop]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-02-23 9:09 AM

 

Bop - 2017-02-22 7:42 PM

 

...Lesson-3: This is a difficult one to ascertain on a first look IMO. The design of our Autotrail (as an example) allows for a significant amount of water to settle on its roof and this concerns me. It is now parked at a slight angle to allow for the water to flow off but, if the chassis was flat then the water would pool and subsequently freeze at times. I also note from my roof that the front GRP roof pod is connected via the same style join which you mention in your post above (a screwed and glued-down plastic strip) and this prevents the water from flowing away...

 

 

Andrew

 

If that’s a major concern for you, you’ll need to reject Rapido 6 and 8 models, as their roof construction and roof shape is exaclty as you’ve described.

 

Thanks Derek - That's useful info but it did make me chuckle too ( I say that respectfully of course); i.e. no sooner do I see a MH that I like and then a guru highlights that said MH has a potential drawback or design fault or reputation issue etc.

 

If this was a generic car forum then people would probably declare that the likes of BMW, Merecdes and Audi were the best vehicles for quality and reliability and that Fiat would be the last of the line-up. Not with motorhomers though, it seems that there is no particular market leader or brand which people can ultimately trust or recommend. The Hymer brand was credible in my view but then again I read a long thread the other day whereby the club members said that German quality was no longer always the best.

 

What a minefield indeed. I reckon that Mrs Bop and I will visit the NEC on Saturday and select something which ticks as many boxes as possible (incl the advice given in this thread by you fine fellows) and then I'll just deal with any problems thereafter.

 

You chaps have been incredibly generous and helpful with your advice and I'll be sure to buy you a glass of red if I see you on a site one day.

 

Very best,

 

Andrew

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I made a fleeting visit to the NEC Show yesterday and there was a Rapido 696FF exhibited on the Rapido stand.

 

A current Rapido model can have a ‘conventional’ roof construction (on the 6 and 6 Series) of the type that’s commonly employed by many motorhome manufacturers, or a much more complex ‘full cover’ construction that’s used on the other (more expensive) Rapido ranges.

 

I briefly looked at an Auto-Trail model and thought that the quality/finish of the GRP body-panels was no worse that the Rapido panels.

 

If you want to keep the price reasonable I suggest you look at Adria. If spend is less important, check out Carthago, Frankia, Hymer and Hobby.

[Brian Kirby]

Bop - 2017-02-22 7:42 PM.....................Regarding your Lesson-1 above; is there a thread that exists (on any forum) that defines the best of the motorhomes on the market today in terms of watertight construction. I suspect Hymer is up there but can anyone add to the list.

 

Lesson-2: That will be the first question I ask the dealers at the NEC on Saturday. Many thanks.

 

Lesson-3: This is a difficult one to ascertain on a first look IMO. The design of our Autotrail (as an example) allows for a significant amount of water to settle on its roof and this concerns me. It is now parked at a slight angle to allow for the water to flow off but, if the chassis was flat then the water would pool and subsequently freeze at times. I also note from my roof that the front GRP roof pod is connected via the same style join which you mention in your post above (a screwed and glued-down plastic strip) and this prevents the water from flowing away. ........................Andrew

Truth to tell, most vans are fine, and equally, all makers can deliver the odd "rogue". What one hears most often is the tales of dissatisfaction so, the greater the number of a particular make sold in a particular market, the law of averages dictates there will be more dissatisfied customers from that pool.

 

Having said that, there have been higher than average instances of problems with some makes, lower with others. Is German always best? Answer in two parts. If you get/have had a rogue van from a German manufacturer, you will say no. However, even given the frustration of the odd faulty van, what most folk seem to find is that the German manufacturers are more willing to put matters right with minimal fuss. So, possibly due to the scale of production, and the organisation of assembly, German vans tend, so far as I can tell, to less problematic from the off, and gain better response from the factory, and dealers, when required. Our three have all ben personal imports, one Burstner, one Hobby, and the present Hymer. The Burstner was fault free, and we only had it for 18 months, so time never revealed it weaknesses. We had the Hobby for 6 years, during which time a badly executed seal around the cab caused a difficult to resolve leak that was dealt with under warranty, an over cab window that began to come loose, causing a small leak, also dealt with under warranty (in year 6) by Southdowns, and a washroom rooflight that suffered leakage between the double glazed layers, but not into the van, also dealt with by Southdowns and finally, damp in the garage access door dealt with under warranty by another, now defunct, Hobby dealer. No arguments with dealers or Hobby, all work attended to promptly and efficiently by a dealer from whom I had not bought the van.

Present van suffered failure of a catch in the washroom, and a sticking insect blind on a rooflight - to cure which the whole internal rooflight assembly was replaced under warranty - by Premier Motorhomes (who had not supplied the van). Again, no arguments/debates, and all dealt with promptly and efficiently.

 

There can be no guarantees of fault free anything: it can only be a matter of risk reduction. Rapido are very popular in France, I subscribe to a French motorhoming magazine, and I can't remember reading complaints of problems with Rapidos (or Pilote for that matter). The only brand that seemed to be getting a poor reputation some years back was Autostar, and it now seems accepted that was a bad patch, and the current vans seem well regarded. I would have no serious doubts about a Rapido (or a Pilote), but have not found a van from either stable that appealed at the time I wanted to change.

 

The roof thing is a fetish of mine. Roofs are to keep the water out, so making holes in them strikes me as perverse. I've just spent too long in the construction industry! However, if the materials are selected for the job, and the assembly is adequately skilled, there is no need for such roof joints to fail. The materials have life spans approaching 25 years these days, and if the joints are properly designed and executed, the joint should last the life of the van: which, after is, are not expected to be the life of a building. I just tend to favour those makers who don't tempt fate by leak-testing all those ifs!