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Brexit Brinkmanship?


StuartO

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pelmetman - 2017-09-23 6:22 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 6:04 PM

 

I am so tired of the use/abuse of the term “political correctness” to defend offensive terminology Dave. Can’t you come up with something else? I am so tired of the use/abuse of the term “political correctness” to defend offensive terminology Dave. Can’t you come up with something else?

pelmetman - 2017-09-23 5:29 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 5:22 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-23 5:08 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 5:03 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-23 4:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 10:03 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-22 4:31 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-09-22 9:55 AM

 

 

The pollys have to find a way to stop Brexit because they like me know it will be a disaster and leaving is just impossible. They just have to figure out a way of letting you down gently.

 

 

Makes you wonder how the Swiss or Norwegians have managed to flourish outside the EU don't it? (lol) .......

 

 

Morning Dave just logged on to see if you have changed the date on your signature yet. C'mon keep up. ;-)

 

Veronica

 

No need....... we will still be out B-) .........

 

A couple of years to sort out our divorce is no big deal......even if it ends up costing a few billion, at least we'll be rid of that EU bitch, so worth every penny >:-) .........

 

There's every need Dave just add 2 years and who knows in two years you might have to add infinity and beyond.

I found your "bitch" comment a tad unnerving. I guess you referring to Angela. Criticise her policies if you like but the slant based on her gender has no place in the enlightened times we live in. An apology would be acceptable if you can "man up" and accept that your remark was inappropriate (I so enjoy a little irony from time to time).

 

Veronica ;-)

 

I said the EU......I mean't the EU ;-) .......besides, being totally non PC I don't feel the need to use gender neutral terminology >:-) .........

 

BTW there is no infinity and beyond *-) ...........Because we'll be out as of the 29/03/2019 B-) .........

 

Oh I get it now. The "bitch" that is the EU. Still not entirely comfortable about your terminology. I had hoped you were more enlightened. Hope springs eternal.

 

Veronica

 

Oh I'm enlightened alright.........I'm just not encumbered by Politically Correct Hogwash :D .........

 

I'll leave that to those who are too afraid to tell it as it is *-) .........

 

 

I am so tired of the use/abuse of the term “political correctness” to defend offensive terminology Dave. Can’t you come up with something else?

 

Veronica

 

You folk do make I laugh (lol) ........Its ok for the edgermercated classes to call folk racist, bigots, or xenophobic.........but you get all offended by anglo saxon terminology *-) ........

 

As Rhett would say......Frankly my dear I don't give a damn :D .......

 

Not guilty Dave.

Veronica

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pelmetman - 2017-09-19 1:24 PM

 

malc d - 2017-09-19 12:21 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-19 11:21 AM

 

So the problem is? ;-) ........

 

 

Another easy question !

( They are the sort I can handle).

 

The problem is that people had to decide whether or not they thought life in the UK would be better if we left the EU.

 

.. and they had to decide that before they got to the ballot box.

 

In my case I concluded that it wouldn't make a lot of difference, so the disruption of leaving wouldn't be worth the hassle.

 

;-)

 

Disruption?........can't say I've experienced any disruption :-| ........

 

That said I'm more than happy to endure disruption to be free of the EU B-) ........

 

After all what's a little bit of disruption compared to the apocalypse the Remoaners have been predicting ;-) ........

Two problems. 1 We do not yet know the terms on which we shall leave, so any present reaction to the decision (like the current fall in the value of the £) is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of future reactions. 2 We have not yet, actually, left.

 

Only when the terms are clear, and the process is irreversible, will we know whether leaving is a financially sound idea, and at what cost. Only then, shall we know what the leavers were voting for. As said above, we all know (more or fuzzy less) now, is what they were voting against. The two are not the same.

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RogerC - 2017-09-19 8:19 PM
Brian Kirby - 2017-09-18 5:44 PM
pelmetman - 2017-09-18 12:46 PM
Brian Kirby - 2017-09-17 8:49 PM
pelmetman - 2017-09-15 9:40 PM..........................I'll tell what's boring...... whinging Remoaners who seem to think that those who couldn't be "bovered" to vote should be used as an excuse to overturn a legitimate referendum *-) ........
You'll have to show me where I said that, Dave. All you're doing is arguing with what I didn't say. Please keep up at the back! :-D
"What I keep saying is that such a narrow majority should not be presented as representing the "will of the people". It is the will of 37% of the electorate, and 25% of the people, that is all. "Is what you said, which sounds very much like you think the results of a legitimate referendum shouldn't stand *-) .......
Not that it shouldn't stand, Dave, just that it shouldn't be presented as "the will of the people". The result has to stand, but it is inadequate as a true indication of what "the people" think. However, I'm convinced a further referendum will be required, once the outcome of the negotiations is clear, and will have to be conducted on a sensible basis, with a minimum majority requirement, on whether we wish to accept the negotiated terms. That will require full disclosure of the economic consequences of so doing, which will, in turn, require those economic consequences to have been explained and justified by economists, the CBI, the Confederation of Small Businesses, etc. etc., so that no-one is voting without understanding what they are voting for.The 2016 referendum resulted largely in a vote against the EU. It was not a vote for any alternative future for the UK. It may yet be that the terms that can be negotiated have economic implications that voters had not contemplated, and dislike even more that they dislike the EU.They may, therefore, conclude that remaining in is the "least worst" of the two possible options - even if they have to put up with Juncker as President of the Commission until November 2019! :-)

So the 'out' result obtained from a democratic process in your opinion should be read as a 'lets negotiate an exit deal and if the people don't like it we will stay in' sort of thing??

I have to admit to beginning to think that is some rather strange idea of democracy..........it appears to be yet another example of 'vote vote and vote again until the desired answer is achieved'!!!
Don't agree! Those remainers who were preaching how easy it would all be pre the referendum are now beginning to understand that it is, in fact, much more complex than they imagined. As other people come to appreciate the implications of leaving they may well change their minds. Is it more, or less, democratic to present those previously unrevealed facts, and ask if people still want to leave? It seems far more democratic to me to do that, than to hold people prisoner of their earlier, less well informed, decision.
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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-23 7:27 PM
RogerC - 2017-09-19 8:19 PM
Brian Kirby - 2017-09-18 5:44 PM
pelmetman - 2017-09-18 12:46 PM
Brian Kirby - 2017-09-17 8:49 PM
pelmetman - 2017-09-15 9:40 PM..........................I'll tell what's boring...... whinging Remoaners who seem to think that those who couldn't be "bovered" to vote should be used as an excuse to overturn a legitimate referendum *-) ........
You'll have to show me where I said that, Dave. All you're doing is arguing with what I didn't say. Please keep up at the back! :-D
"What I keep saying is that such a narrow majority should not be presented as representing the "will of the people". It is the will of 37% of the electorate, and 25% of the people, that is all. "Is what you said, which sounds very much like you think the results of a legitimate referendum shouldn't stand *-) .......
Not that it shouldn't stand, Dave, just that it shouldn't be presented as "the will of the people". The result has to stand, but it is inadequate as a true indication of what "the people" think. However, I'm convinced a further referendum will be required, once the outcome of the negotiations is clear, and will have to be conducted on a sensible basis, with a minimum majority requirement, on whether we wish to accept the negotiated terms. That will require full disclosure of the economic consequences of so doing, which will, in turn, require those economic consequences to have been explained and justified by economists, the CBI, the Confederation of Small Businesses, etc. etc., so that no-one is voting without understanding what they are voting for.The 2016 referendum resulted largely in a vote against the EU. It was not a vote for any alternative future for the UK. It may yet be that the terms that can be negotiated have economic implications that voters had not contemplated, and dislike even more that they dislike the EU.They may, therefore, conclude that remaining in is the "least worst" of the two possible options - even if they have to put up with Juncker as President of the Commission until November 2019! :-)

So the 'out' result obtained from a democratic process in your opinion should be read as a 'lets negotiate an exit deal and if the people don't like it we will stay in' sort of thing??

I have to admit to beginning to think that is some rather strange idea of democracy..........it appears to be yet another example of 'vote vote and vote again until the desired answer is achieved'!!!
Don't agree! Those remainers who were preaching how easy it would all be pre the referendum are now beginning to understand that it is, in fact, much more complex than they imagined. As other people come to appreciate the implications of leaving they may well change their minds. Is it more, or less, democratic to present those previously unrevealed facts, and ask if people still want to leave? It seems far more democratic to me to do that, than to hold people prisoner of their earlier, less well informed, decision.

Firstly anyone with one iota of common sense would have known that leaving/unpicking the fabric of our EU membership was/is going to be something of a tortuous procedure/process.  One clearly doesn't just say goodbye and close the door behind oneself.

You say 'hold people prisoner to prior decisions based on lack of quality information'.  Surely the same applies to those voting to stay.....a lack of information with regard to further integration/legal expansion of the Supreme court powers/possible imposition of the Euro/ever deeper integration, a desire for an EU military force controlled from Brussels and overriding national interests and a ever greater reduction of Parliamentary powers (taxation etc) subjugated by Brussels overbearing desires for ever greater power over member nations.........ala the EU superstate.

I agree there was a dearth of acceptable/informed information/opinion (both sides played a rather dirty game in order to influence voters...most of it scare tactics based on foundations of sand) but the same applies to both sides because quite simply (as I have said many times before) no one knew/knows what the outcome will be which I consider to be a balanced viewpoint against those in the remain camp who claim to 'know' the outcome.  That is either supreme arrogance or simply an attitude that demonstrates they can not accept the ballot box result which is the bedrock of our democratic process.
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RogerC - 2017-09-23 2:54 PM
John52 - 2017-09-23 10:58 AM
RogerC - 2017-09-23 9:25 AM
John52 - 2017-09-23 9:12 AMBritain's credit rating cut again thanks to Brexit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41369239 :-S Glad I followed Warren Buffet's advice to his wife and put my savings in an S&P500 ETF.In pound terms the price has doubled because the pounds are worth less.

You and your mate Warren doin alright then..............so if you've got that much that mateyboy Warren can make a difference to your 'pot' why not do the altruistic thing with it and help out all those you fee so passionately about, you know the homeless, those disadvantaged by those you always bleat on about or is it a case of not putting your clearly considerable wealth (Warren isn't mates with anyone unless they have more than a few £££££££'s stashed away)where your pontificating is?
So now I'm mates with Warren Buffet eh (lol) His advice to his wife of where to invest her inheritance was widely leaked to the press which is where I read it.And I'm not worth more in real terms - just in pounds which are worth less thanks to Brexit.Do keep up (lol)

You started the name dropping.....trying to impress are we??   
Still doesn't answer the question about putting your investment £'s where your defence of the poor and disadvantaged is aimed.  Just empty words then John??
As I have already told you I read Warren Buffets words in a newspaper like millions of others must have done. Hardly name dropping.And I do donate to charities but not exclusive ones (like Armed Forces) The ones I donate to are for everybody including ex Forces. Like the RNLI who will fish you out of the sea whoever you are. And the foodbanks. They won't say you didn't work for the armed forces so we can't help you'
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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-23 7:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-19 1:24 PM

 

malc d - 2017-09-19 12:21 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-19 11:21 AM

 

So the problem is? ;-) ........

 

 

Another easy question !

( They are the sort I can handle).

 

The problem is that people had to decide whether or not they thought life in the UK would be better if we left the EU.

 

.. and they had to decide that before they got to the ballot box.

 

In my case I concluded that it wouldn't make a lot of difference, so the disruption of leaving wouldn't be worth the hassle.

 

;-)

 

Disruption?........can't say I've experienced any disruption :-| ........

 

That said I'm more than happy to endure disruption to be free of the EU B-) ........

 

After all what's a little bit of disruption compared to the apocalypse the Remoaners have been predicting ;-) ........

Two problems. 1 We do not yet know the terms on which we shall leave, so any present reaction to the decision (like the current fall in the value of the £) is unlikely to be a reliable indicator of future reactions. 2 We have not yet, actually, left.

 

Only when the terms are clear, and the process is irreversible, will we know whether leaving is a financially sound idea, and at what cost. Only then, shall we know what the leavers were voting for. As said above, we all know (more or fuzzy less) now, is what they were voting against. The two are not the same.

 

1. The fall in the pound was entirely due to Remoaner in Chief Carney reducing the interest rate unnecessarily *-) .......

 

2. The markets and business know we are leaving........did the sky fall in as predicted by the Remoaners?..........NO.... the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

 

 

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malc d - 2017-09-24 9:37 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-24 9:00 AM

 

 

..................the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

 

 

 

That might be because we are still in the EU ?

 

;-)

 

..........and we'll really boom once we've thrown off the EU dead weight B-) ...........

 

Watch the pound leap when Carney is forced to raise interest rates >:-) .........

 

 

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malc d - 2017-09-24 9:37 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-24 9:00 AM

 

 

..................the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

 

 

 

That might be because we are still in the EU ?

 

;-)

 

That and also the pound has crashed in anticipation of Brexit.

So exporters have the best of both worlds at the moment - still in the EU and with a low pound.

But will exporters invest in factories, recruit, and train more people when they don't know whether they will be on the wrong side of trade barriers in a few years time

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Never, in the field of human politics has so much twaddle been spoken by so many newspaper readers and tv watchers.

 

The plain truth is that nobody knows how it will all pan out so instead on blathering on trying to score points on what you think might happen, or what you want to happen why don't we all give it a break and let it rest for a while, or find another subject to spout about and wind up everyone else?

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John52 - 2017-09-24 10:58 AM

 

malc d - 2017-09-24 9:37 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-24 9:00 AM

 

 

..................the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

 

 

 

That might be because we are still in the EU ?

 

;-)

 

That and also the pound has crashed in anticipation of Brexit.

So exporters have the best of both worlds at the moment - still in the EU and with a low pound.

But will exporters invest in factories, recruit, and train more people when they don't know whether they will be on the wrong side of trade barriers in a few years time

 

Seeing as our consumers are some of the biggest spenders in Europe, then I suspect they'll stay on our side of any barrier ;-) ..........

 

Plus from conversations I've had with friends and family who run their own businesses, BREXIT has made bog all difference :D ..........So all you Remoaners may as well save your hot air coz the UK clearly ain't listening >:-) .........

 

 

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John52 - 2017-09-24 11:05 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-24 10:09 AM

Watch the pound leap when Carney is forced to raise interest rates >:-) .........

 

 

leap over a cliff?

The value of the pound depends on our exports which are put at risk by Brexit

 

Dunno if you've noticed but our current pound/euro exchange rate ain't much different to what it was 5 years ago ;-) .........

 

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=5Y

 

Could be worse though :D ......Like in 2008 8-) .......

 

 

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RogerC - 2017-09-23 9:05 PM.......................I agree there was a dearth of acceptable/informed information/opinion (both sides played a rather dirty game in order to influence voters...most of it scare tactics based on foundations of sand) but the same applies to both sides because quite simply (as I have said many times before) no one knew/knows what the outcome will be which I consider to be a balanced viewpoint against those in the remain camp who claim to 'know' the outcome.

Agreed, although I don't so much see that viewpoint as balanced, as merely reflecting the status quo. But, to follow your own line of argument, were there not also those in the remain camp who claimed to "know" the outcome? The thing that strikes me is that there seemed to have been at least as many who clearly did not "know" the outcome, and who I think should be consulted again once the negotiations complete and we can all "know" what the future will look like.

 

That is either supreme arrogance or simply an attitude that demonstrates they can not accept the ballot box result which is the bedrock of our democratic process.

But then, surely, as above, that arrogance is more or less equally spread on both sides? As I have said before, the outcome of the referendum is undeniable. But, it was conducted against that "dearth of acceptable/informed information/opinion" to which you refer above. Once the negotiations conclude, and the terms of exit are clear, there will be no excuse for such a dearth. Only then, IMO, can an informed referendum be conducted. That would be infinitely more democratic than adherence to a poorly informed vote, merely because our MPs were to silly to spot the fatal flaw in what they voted to unleash, mainly, it seems to me, for reasons of party political, and not national, interest.

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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-25 8:27 PM

 

RogerC - 2017-09-23 9:05 PM.......................I agree there was a dearth of acceptable/informed information/opinion (both sides played a rather dirty game in order to influence voters...most of it scare tactics based on foundations of sand) but the same applies to both sides because quite simply (as I have said many times before) no one knew/knows what the outcome will be which I consider to be a balanced viewpoint against those in the remain camp who claim to 'know' the outcome.

Agreed, although I don't so much see that viewpoint as balanced, as merely reflecting the status quo. But, to follow your own line of argument, were there not also those in the remain camp who claimed to "know" the outcome? The thing that strikes me is that there seemed to have been at least as many who clearly did not "know" the outcome, and who I think should be consulted again once the negotiations complete and we can all "know" what the future will look like.

 

That is either supreme arrogance or simply an attitude that demonstrates they can not accept the ballot box result which is the bedrock of our democratic process.

But then, surely, as above, that arrogance is more or less equally spread on both sides? As I have said before, the outcome of the referendum is undeniable. But, it was conducted against that "dearth of acceptable/informed information/opinion" to which you refer above. Once the negotiations conclude, and the terms of exit are clear, there will be no excuse for such a dearth. Only then, IMO, can an informed referendum be conducted. That would be infinitely more democratic than adherence to a poorly informed vote, merely because our MPs were to silly to spot the fatal flaw in what they voted to unleash, mainly, it seems to me, for reasons of party political, and not national, interest.

 

Gorden Bennet *-) ......You're not still on that band wagon Brian (lol) .........So your basically saying we should not have been allowed to vote because either sides guess work wasn't accurate :-| ........

 

Its funny how the Remaoners "Experts" guess work has proved to be wanting >:-) .........

 

 

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pelmetman - 2017-09-24 9:00 AM..........................................

1. The fall in the pound was entirely due to Remoaner in Chief Carney reducing the interest rate unnecessarily *-) .......

 

2. The markets and business know we are leaving........did the sky fall in as predicted by the Remoaners?..........NO.... the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

1 No Dave, it was due to the outcome of the referendum. The reduction in interest rate was minuscule.

 

2 You were in the navy, so I assume you'll know a thing or two about ships. Economies are like half million tonne tankers or bulk carriers, they take a long time to change course. No-one will be able to say what effect leaving the EU actually had until years after the event. All that can be seen at present is the immediate responses of markets and investors, on which evidence the British economy is already slowing, not thriving. Based on present indications, I don't see any present grounds for long-term optimism.

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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-25 8:40 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-24 9:00 AM..........................................

1. The fall in the pound was entirely due to Remoaner in Chief Carney reducing the interest rate unnecessarily *-) .......

 

2. The markets and business know we are leaving........did the sky fall in as predicted by the Remoaners?..........NO.... the UK PLC is thriving >:-) ......

1 No Dave, it was due to the outcome of the referendum. The reduction in interest rate was minuscule.

 

2 You were in the navy, so I assume you'll know a thing or two about ships. Economies are like half million tonne tankers or bulk carriers, they take a long time to change course. No-one will be able to say what effect leaving the EU actually had until years after the event. All that can be seen at present is the immediate responses of markets and investors, on which evidence the British economy is already slowing, not thriving. Based on present indications, I don't see any present grounds for long-term optimism.

 

1. Yes minuscule and unnecessary and a fop to you Remoaners to try and engineer a downturn in the UK economy :-| .......(that worked didn't it LOL)

 

2. Yes I was in the Navy.......and I recognise those who would wish to create a mutiny against those who are patriots >:-) .....

 

 

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You think the Governor of the Bank of England tried to sabotage the UK economy under a Conservative government - and kept his job?

 

Isn't a patriot a person who places the interests of his or her country before his or her own? Are you quite sure you've properly identified the mutineers?

 

You've been at the Riocha again, you have! :-D

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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-25 9:26 PM

 

You think the Governor of the Bank of England tried to sabotage the UK economy under a Conservative government - and kept his job?

 

Isn't a patriot a person who places the interests of his or her country before his or her own? Are you quite sure you've properly identified the mutineers?

 

You've been at the Riocha again, you have! :-D

 

When it comes to the Tory party Machiavelli is a mere up start ;-) .......

 

Hence the need to poke them in the "Right" direction B-) ........They know they have only borrowed the UKIP vote >:-) ........

 

Just as Germany and the EU learn't on Sunday (lol).......

 

 

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Brian Kirby - 2017-09-25 9:26 PM

 

You've been at the Riocha again, you have! :-D

 

Only for medicinal purposes ;-) ........currently watching a BBC oike grilling a AFD politician, its pretty clear the BBC oike appears to be winning because the politician is not talking in his own language *-) ......

 

 

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I wonder how the mood music will change with our EU negotiations after the German elections? :D ........

 

Junker & Co are living on borrowed time in my view >:-) ........

 

 

 

 

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Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 5:03 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-23 4:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 10:03 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-22 4:31 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-09-22 9:55 AM

 

 

The pollys have to find a way to stop Brexit because they like me know it will be a disaster and leaving is just impossible. They just have to figure out a way of letting you down gently.

 

 

Makes you wonder how the Swiss or Norwegians have managed to flourish outside the EU don't it? (lol) .......

 

 

Morning Dave just logged on to see if you have changed the date on your signature yet. C'mon keep up. ;-)

 

Veronica

 

No need....... we will still be out B-) .........

 

A couple of years to sort out our divorce is no big deal......even if it ends up costing a few billion, at least we'll be rid of that EU bitch, so worth every penny >:-) .........

 

There's every need Dave just add 2 years and who knows in two years you might have to add infinity and beyond.

I found your "bitch" comment a tad unnerving. I guess you referring to Angela. Criticise her policies if you like but the slant based on her gender has no place in the enlightened times we live in. An apology would be acceptable if you can "man up" and accept that your remark was inappropriate (I so enjoy a little irony from time to time).

 

Veronica ;-)

 

Shurrup Veronica!! It's clearly working!! Yes Dave, your right. We are definately leaving in March 2019.defo certain abusolutely. You leavers won! yes! :D

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Barryd999 - 2017-09-26 7:18 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 5:03 PM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-23 4:19 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-23 10:03 AM

 

pelmetman - 2017-09-22 4:31 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2017-09-22 9:55 AM

 

 

The pollys have to find a way to stop Brexit because they like me know it will be a disaster and leaving is just impossible. They just have to figure out a way of letting you down gently.

 

 

Makes you wonder how the Swiss or Norwegians have managed to flourish outside the EU don't it? (lol) .......

 

 

Morning Dave just logged on to see if you have changed the date on your signature yet. C'mon keep up. ;-)

 

Veronica

 

No need....... we will still be out B-) .........

 

A couple of years to sort out our divorce is no big deal......even if it ends up costing a few billion, at least we'll be rid of that EU bitch, so worth every penny >:-) .........

 

There's every need Dave just add 2 years and who knows in two years you might have to add infinity and beyond.

I found your "bitch" comment a tad unnerving. I guess you referring to Angela. Criticise her policies if you like but the slant based on her gender has no place in the enlightened times we live in. An apology would be acceptable if you can "man up" and accept that your remark was inappropriate (I so enjoy a little irony from time to time).

 

Veronica ;-)

 

Shurrup Veronica!! It's clearly working!! Yes Dave, your right. We are definately leaving in March 2019.defo certain abusolutely. You leavers won! yes! :D

 

Will do Barry. I must henceforth resist the temptation to goad Dave with the kind of PC statements he so enjoys.

 

 

Veronica

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