Manchester Royal Infirmary

[Violet1956]

nowtelse2do - 2017-09-06 7:43 PM

 

The story has been in all the papers that I've seen and on TV. Veronica, the children were sent back to Ireland when he was admitted so there was nothing stopping them getting b & b. I wonder if they have their ehic card with them or maybe some travel insurance...... I doubt it, oh and the beer cans at the back of the van must indicate that they have a bit of dosh.

 

If they could find a B&B willing to let them stay. I predict the "No Vacancies" sign going up the moment they got out of the vans and started walking towards the door.

[antony1969]

Violet1956 - 2017-09-06 11:08 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2017-09-06 7:43 PM

 

The story has been in all the papers that I've seen and on TV. Veronica, the children were sent back to Ireland when he was admitted so there was nothing stopping them getting b & b. I wonder if they have their ehic card with them or maybe some travel insurance...... I doubt it, oh and the beer cans at the back of the van must indicate that they have a bit of dosh.

 

If they could find a B&B willing to let them stay. I predict the "No Vacancies" sign going up the moment they got out of the vans and started walking towards the door.

 

Wonder why

[John52]

RogerC - 2017-09-06 9:12 PM

John52 - 2017-09-06 5:20 PM

RogerC - 2017-09-06 4:20 PM Any law abiding individual would have had the full force of the authorities down on them to move, been ticketed, clamped, towed etc etc.  

Run that one by me again Roger *-)Why would they be ticketed clamped or towed if they are law abiding?

Provocateur now are you?

My message was that being 'travellers' who by reputation and frequently evidenced incidents break the law with impunity appear, by the information provided, to be once more breaking the law by parking/overnighting where it is not permitted.  They appear to be illegally occupying disabled parking slots and it is apparently deemed necessary to 'fence them in' rather than remove them.  Now if 'Joe Blogs' pillar of society, law abiding individual (usually, but in this example forced into rather radical behaviour) was to try the same thing, illegal parking, overnighting in a van, using the hospital facilities for ablutions whilst effectively living in a van on hospital property the full weight of authority would rain down in a torrential deluge.

Now do you get it .....?

Roger - you and me have to obey the law because if we so much as park on a yellow line we can be fined. If we don't pay they can freeze our bank accounts - send the baliffs in/whatever. That doesn't work with some people because they have got no assets the authorities can get their hands on.

[derek pringle]

Violet1956 - 2017-09-05 10:19 PM

 

As most of us have fixed homes to go to I am not persuaded that the travellers have not been afforded what should be a short term solution to what must be the most exceptional compassionate circumstances. If they have taken up too much space to the detriment of other patients and their families I would ask why the hospital has not liaised with the local authority to find a temporary site for them to use whilst their relative is in such a critical condition.

 

And if the travellers have taken up parking spaces for the disabled it should not be beyond the wit of man for other spaces to be made available for those of limited mobility until a workable solution has been found that can accommodate the needs of all users of the hospital.

Veronica

hi,

If they did have a fixed home to go to then they would have to pay the parking charges, wouldn't they. So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

cheers

derek

[John52]

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.

How would you enforce the charges?

[Violet1956]

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 6:28 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-06 11:08 PM

 

nowtelse2do - 2017-09-06 7:43 PM

 

The story has been in all the papers that I've seen and on TV. Veronica, the children were sent back to Ireland when he was admitted so there was nothing stopping them getting b & b. I wonder if they have their ehic card with them or maybe some travel insurance...... I doubt it, oh and the beer cans at the back of the van must indicate that they have a bit of dosh.

 

If they could find a B&B willing to let them stay. I predict the "No Vacancies" sign going up the moment they got out of the vans and started walking towards the door.

 

Wonder why

 

Over many years those with fixed abodes and those who choose an itinerant lifestyle have been inclined to take up entrenched positions in their dislike for each other. It would help if both sides had more respect for each other’s needs and sought to accommodate them as far as is practicable. There is no denying that the travellers can’t blame us entirely for what is a dysfunctional and fraught relationship at times. At the same time we won’t get them to acknowledge that unless we critically examine our own conduct towards them.

 

The circumstances in which this particular group find themselves seems to have made the powers that be doing the best they can to reach a compromise that causes the least harm or inconvenience to all users of the hospital and which takes account of what is no doubt a very troubling time for them. The reports I've seen mention a traveller's site a couple of miles away but not whether they can be accommodated there.

 

If I was the female traveller who was asked by some journo how long we would be staying rather than whether my relative in intensive care was recovering well I would have said something worse than “5 years” as she was reported as saying in the press. That particular question illustrated the thinly veiled contempt the travellers have come to believe all non-travellers have for them. Also they can’t win can they? On the one hand they are accused of being dirty and on the other criticised for using the hospital ablutions.

 

Veronica

 

[Violet1956]

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-05 10:19 PM

 

As most of us have fixed homes to go to I am not persuaded that the travellers have not been afforded what should be a short term solution to what must be the most exceptional compassionate circumstances. If they have taken up too much space to the detriment of other patients and their families I would ask why the hospital has not liaised with the local authority to find a temporary site for them to use whilst their relative is in such a critical condition.

 

And if the travellers have taken up parking spaces for the disabled it should not be beyond the wit of man for other spaces to be made available for those of limited mobility until a workable solution has been found that can accommodate the needs of all users of the hospital.

Veronica

hi,

If they did have a fixed home to go to then they would have to pay the parking charges, wouldn't they. So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

cheers

derek

 

I agree with you Derek. They should be afforded no more of a dispensation over parking charges than any other user of the hospital grounds regardless of whether enforcement action is practicable. At our local hospital there are certain circumstances in which the parking charges may be waived so I do wonder whether they come into some category where payment is normally waived. That's the trouble with these news reports they don't really give us the full picture- just the bits that are going to make us most angry. They seem to have used the standard journalistic way of avoiding to appear critical themselves or being accused of imparting misinformation by giving us quotes from random people who are aggrieved but who are not likely to have sufficient information to enable them to form a reasonable judgement.

 

Veronica

[John52]

Violet1956 - 2017-09-07 10:40 AM

They should be afforded no more of a dispensation over parking charges than any other user of the hospital grounds regardless of whether enforcement action is practicable

 

Veronica

In an ideal world perhaps not

Back in the real world how do you make them pay when enforcement action is not practicable?

(And, lets be honest, how many of us pay parking charges when we can get away without doing so *-) )

[Violet1956]

John52 - 2017-09-07 11:04 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-09-07 10:40 AM

They should be afforded no more of a dispensation over parking charges than any other user of the hospital grounds regardless of whether enforcement action is practicable

 

Veronica

In an ideal world perhaps not

Back in the real world how do you make them pay when enforcement action is not practicable?

(And, lets be honest, how many of us pay parking charges when we can get away without doing so *-) )

 

As you know John I'm a bit of idealist. If a payment is required then ask them to pay it - you never know they might do so. I don't believe one should consider what enforcement action is possible before making a lawful demand that anyone complies with a rule/regulation. There are discussions at national and local level with the travelling community about what is and what is not acceptable behaviour and we need to keep making reasonable demands of individuals within that community to reinforce that they can't expect to be treated fairly if they don't behave reasonably themselves.

 

I'm also a bit of a "goody two shoes" and would never deliberately avoid a parking charge that was due. I try polishing my halo several times a day, ask the OH, he finds it exasperating.

 

Veronica

[John52]

Violet1956 - 2017-09-07 1:04 PM

If a payment is required then ask them to pay it .

Since Car Parks are invariably Pay and Display (easiest for the landowner and worst for the user) I guess they have already been asked the same as everyone else.

So now what do we do?

 

[John52]

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-09-07 1:14 PM

 

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

 

I think an explanation for that one is needed ... Who said "move the travellers camp on" anyway ?

[Tracker]

The basic problem is the justifiable reputation these 'travellers' have for leaving a long trail of rubbish, industrial and building waste, including toilet waste, litter and damage where ever they go.

 

This all has to be paid for out of yours and my council tax and for one resent paying for the clean up aftermath of their disgraceful behaviour.

 

Maybe they 'all' don't but every area taken over illegally by all of those that I have seen over the years has suffered their abuse, and that is why they get so much dislike from normal law abiding citizens who do not behave like this and quite understandably do not want them anywhere near their homes.

 

Travellers would get a much better reputation and a lot more sympathy if instead of behaving like the nasty inconsiderate dross they are, they acted responsibly and improved every where they trespassed onto and left it better than they found it.

 

No way would I want them living anywhere near me and I have no time for the wets who think these irresponsible morons deserve our support.

 

Take a look at their own land and council provided sites to see what I mean.

 

The knock on effect of motorhomes being banned from car parks and more car parks with height barriers is entirely due to these unpleasant and selfish idiots.

 

I have no issue with their lifestyle and the way they choose to live except that if they expect to be treated with respect they first need to earn that respect and I see precious little effort of that being made.

[thebishbus]

Well there's a surprise then. I see the main supporter on this thread of these FREEloading parasites, many of whom have base homes in Ireland , is someone who I believe drives a campervan disguised as plain white van, which he parks FREE and unchallenged in residential roads and then has the nerve to dump his toilet waste in street rubbish bins. But of course I may be wrong.

Brian B.

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 5:12 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 1:14 PM

 

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

 

I think an explanation for that one is needed ... Who said "move the travellers camp on" anyway ?

 

Just look back at your own posts on this thread

[John52]

thebishbus - 2017-09-07 6:34 PM

 

Well there's a surprise then. I see the main supporter on this thread of these FREEloading parasites, many of whom have base homes in Ireland , is someone who I believe drives a campervan disguised as plain white van, which he parks FREE and unchallenged in residential roads and then has the nerve to dump his toilet waste in street rubbish bins. But of course I may be wrong.

Brian B.

 

I'm not supporting them .... just trying to point out the impracticalities of some of the suggestions of how to deal with them....

PS I pay road tax to park on the roads and council tax to empty the bins. So how do you come to the conclusion its FREE?

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-09-07 7:13 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 5:12 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 1:14 PM

 

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

 

I think an explanation for that one is needed ... Who said "move the travellers camp on" anyway ?

 

Just look back at your own posts on this thread

 

Dont try to worm out of something you've said ... Man up explain and answer my question or simply shut up

[RogerC]

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.How would you enforce the charges?

Enforce the law....clamp them, issue penalty notices and issue summonses for the rest of the offences being committed and when they fail to appear or pay the penalty notices seize their vans and crush them......simple.  But then the liberal bleeding hearts would be ranting and raving about persecution of minorities!!!!....So I say sod them and enforce the law.

[John52]

RogerC - 2017-09-07 8:30 PM

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.How would you enforce the charges?

Enforce the law....clamp them, issue penalty notices and issue summonses for the rest of the offences being committed and when they fail to appear or pay the penalty notices seize their vans and crush them......simple.  But then the liberal bleeding hearts would be ranting and raving about persecution of minorities!!!!....So I say sod them and enforce the law.

So you make them homeless then since they have women and children the council have a legal responsibility to re-house them. How much does that cost *-)

[John52]

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 7:43 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 7:13 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 5:12 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 1:14 PM

 

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

 

I think an explanation for that one is needed ... Who said "move the travellers camp on" anyway ?

 

Just look back at your own posts on this thread

 

Dont try to worm out of something you've said ... Man up explain and answer my question or simply shut up

 

Its all there in your posts on this thread.

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:18 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 7:43 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 7:13 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-09-07 5:12 PM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 1:14 PM

 

Incidentally I think my most memorable experience of this forum ever - let alone this thread - is the one saying 'move the travellers camp on' is the one accusing me of being the keyboard warrior (lol)

 

I think an explanation for that one is needed ... Who said "move the travellers camp on" anyway ?

 

Just look back at your own posts on this thread

 

Dont try to worm out of something you've said ... Man up explain and answer my question or simply shut up

 

Its all there in your posts on this thread.

 

Is it now ... Translated your post means your stumped

[derek pringle]

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.

How would you enforce the charges?

hi,

somebody must be communicating with this family to allow them to stay, so that person can collect fees, I would have thought.

cheers

derek

[John52]

derek pringle - 2017-09-08 9:23 AM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.

How would you enforce the charges?

hi,

somebody must be communicating with this family to allow them to stay, so that person can collect fees, I would have thought.

cheers

derek

 

I don't know - maybe they can't afford the fees?

The suggestion further up this thread that if they can afford a van etc they can afford parking fees doesn't make sense to me - at the risk of stating the obvious they might have spent all their money on the van. In any case if the Authorities turf them out and make them homeless another authority will have a legal obligation to rehouse them - and with the housing crisis they are already overwhelmed with homeless people :-(

[antony1969]

John52 - 2017-09-09 6:56 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-08 9:23 AM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.

How would you enforce the charges?

hi,

somebody must be communicating with this family to allow them to stay, so that person can collect fees, I would have thought.

cheers

derek

 

I don't know - maybe they can't afford the fees?

The suggestion further up this thread that if they can afford a van etc they can afford parking fees doesn't make sense to me - at the risk of stating the obvious they might have spent all their money on the van. In any case if the Authorities turf them out and make them homeless another authority will have a legal obligation to

rehouse them - and with the housing crisis they are already overwhelmed with homeless people :-(

 

So if they'd all spent their money on the vans where were they going to stay had they not had the sick relative ??? ... Why would making them park off hospital property make them homeless ??? ... Irish filthy travellers have just bought a piece of expensive land in Outlane , Huddersfield ... Carefully they've dumped outer barriers from tipped waste to disguise the fact they've got caravans and statics on site ... Our council has said they have to shift it all but lets see ... Authorities as we know daren't rock the boat with these vile people

[derek pringle]

John52 - 2017-09-09 6:56 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-08 9:23 AM

 

John52 - 2017-09-07 10:06 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-09-07 9:06 AM

So why aren't they paying some charges like everyone else.

derek

My suggestion is in the post above yours.

How would you enforce the charges?

hi,

somebody must be communicating with this family to allow them to stay, so that person can collect fees, I would have thought.

cheers

derek

 

I don't know - maybe they can't afford the fees?

The suggestion further up this thread that if they can afford a van etc they can afford parking fees doesn't make sense to me - at the risk of stating the obvious they might have spent all their money on the van. In any case if the Authorities turf them out and make them homeless another authority will have a legal obligation to rehouse them - and with the housing crisis they are already overwhelmed with homeless people :-(

Hi John,

If you had a relative in hospital for a while I think most people would find the parking charges hard to meet. Our local hospital charges per visit, most people visit close ones twice per day. The whole system is crazy but if these people lived on a site they could get the bus to the hospital like everybody else. I just wonder how much of a sympathetic ear the administrators would have if you or I didn't pay our fee or just overstayed our time even.

cheers

derek