derek pringle Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Hi, Has anybody any idea what the increase in Tax Revenue is due to the large fall in numbers of unemployed people. Having worked as a tradesman all my life following Indentured Apprenticeship I understand fully the ethic of 'people should work,where they are capable of working' and I also believe that forcing people in to poverty jobs can be more demoralising than not working. When the gift. keeps spouting that more and more people are working and insinuating they are now not on benefits and contributing I have my doubts. I suspect a lot of the jobs being taken up are low paid jobs, therefore little or no Income Tax may be paid,also the people moving to these jobs will probably just transfer from 'out of work benefits' to 'in work benefits'. Please note I am not defending able people who do not seem to want work, but work at any price is going back a century or two imo. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 I stopped taking the Government's unemployment statistics seriously over 30 years ago. Thatcher was laying waste to our mining and manufacturing industries, whilst her official unemployment count was coming down *-) I don't take much notice of their income tax statistics either. They have cut income tax (especially for the better off) to replace it with stealth taxes (that hit the poor the hardest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Found this link Derek. One chart in the link shows a rise in tax revenues year after year since 2005 (apart from a slight dip in 2009 and 2010) from around 450 billion in 2005 to to over 650 billion in 2017. There are other charts showing the different proportions of income from direct and indirect taxation. https://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/ I don't know if there is any way of finding out who is paying more in direct taxation. As you observe there may be people in work who don't pay tax and qualify for tax credits of some sort. I suspect it is the kind of data no government would want to collect. Happy to be proved wrong if anyone else can find it., 'twould make very interesting reading. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Pelmet was hoping they were taxing brains so he could get a rebate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-19 2:45 PM Pelmet was hoping they were taxing brains so he could get a rebate Yep I'm so thick I semi retired at 46 ;-) ......and after a 12 year apprenticeship I finally qualified and went full time idle bastard nearly 2 years ago B-) ....... Dam I'm stupid..... sat here in the sun, when I could be back in Blighty working :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-11-19 10:49 AM Found this link Derek. One chart in the link shows a rise in tax revenues year after year since 2005 (apart from a slight dip in 2009 and 2010) from around 450 billion in 2005 to to over 650 billion in 2017. There are other charts showing the different proportions of income from direct and indirect taxation. https://www.ukpublicrevenue.co.uk/ I don't know if there is any way of finding out who is paying more in direct taxation. As you observe there may be people in work who don't pay tax and qualify for tax credits of some sort. I suspect it is the kind of data no government would want to collect. Happy to be proved wrong if anyone else can find it., 'twould make very interesting reading. H Veronica, See what you mean about the charts, yeti the rich are as suggested getting a lot of tax back and the lower paid are paying very little or none then no wonder the middle ground feel they are between a rock and a hard place. If truly transparent the govt. could even show a graph of an MP and their tax contributions over the last 5 or so years. cheers derek Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ The benefit system has just given them an excuse to be bone idle *-) ......... Much like those who complain about minimum wage :-S ........Find a better paid job Snowflakes ;-) ....... Mind you that would require them to be a asset rather than a pain to anyone who employs them 8-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. No omniscience required ;-) ..........Just the ability to observe the bleedin obvious :D ...... BTW its been a warm 20 degrees today B-) ........ Got quite a sweat on laying the lawn on our pitch for the winter, and my 2 dodgy knees didn't help......but the 1.95 euro bottle of chilled Cava did :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. No omniscience required ;-) ..........Just the ability to observe the bleedin obvious :D ...... BTW its been a warm 20 degrees today B-) ........ Got quite a sweat on laying the lawn on our pitch for the winter, and my 2 dodgy knees didn't help......but the 1.95 euro bottle of chilled Cava did :D ....... Enjoy! Not a fan of Cava because it gives me a headache. However, my brother who has lived in Spain since 1985 has told me that the c**p we get in the UK is nothing like the wonderful stuff that can be had in Spain. You might guess that my tipple of choice on the fizzy front has to come from somewhere North of where you are. It has struck me that the first thing you would mention if you had to enter the office of a recruitment firm offering jobs that paid £7.50 per hour was your dodgy knees (lol) Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:31 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. No omniscience required ;-) ..........Just the ability to observe the bleedin obvious :D ...... BTW its been a warm 20 degrees today B-) ........ Got quite a sweat on laying the lawn on our pitch for the winter, and my 2 dodgy knees didn't help......but the 1.95 euro bottle of chilled Cava did :D ....... Enjoy! Not a fan of Cava because it gives me a headache. However, my brother who has lived in Spain since 1985 has told me that the c**p we get in the UK is nothing like the wonderful stuff that can be had in Spain. You might guess that my tipple of choice on the fizzy front has to come from somewhere North of where you are. It has struck me that the first thing you would mention if you had to enter the office of a recruitment firm offering jobs that paid £7.50 per hour was your dodgy knees (lol) Veronica Why would I enter a recruitment firm?....... My dodgy knees are due to a life spent since aged 16 in gainful physical employment/self employment............ Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:31 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. No omniscience required ;-) ..........Just the ability to observe the bleedin obvious :D ...... BTW its been a warm 20 degrees today B-) ........ Got quite a sweat on laying the lawn on our pitch for the winter, and my 2 dodgy knees didn't help......but the 1.95 euro bottle of chilled Cava did :D ....... Enjoy! Not a fan of Cava because it gives me a headache. However, my brother who has lived in Spain since 1985 has told me that the c**p we get in the UK is nothing like the wonderful stuff that can be had in Spain. You might guess that my tipple of choice on the fizzy front has to come from somewhere North of where you are. It has struck me that the first thing you would mention if you had to enter the office of a recruitment firm offering jobs that paid £7.50 per hour was your dodgy knees (lol) Veronica Why would I enter a recruitment firm?....... My dodgy knees are due to a life spent since aged 16 in gainful physical employment/self employment............ Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Note I said "if you had to enter a recruitment firm". Where were you when the empathy gene was being handed out Dave? All it takes is a bit of imagination for us all to see that sometimes things worked out for us due to not only our hard work but also down to a bit of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 9:32 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:31 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:13 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 7:06 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 6:59 PM Violet1956 - 2017-11-20 6:58 PM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 3:59 PM John52 - 2017-11-20 12:32 PM derek pringle - 2017-11-19 9:55 AM unemployed people. There are no unemployed people in UK according to the Chancellor https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/19/there-are-no-unemployed-in-uk-says-philip-hammond-tv-gaffe *-) Its my belief that there are very few people in the UK who could not find work if they really wanted it :-| ........ A belief based on what though Dave? Observation ;-) ........ I expect that you can lay claim to a good deal of knowledge about many things Dave but omniscience would be a stretch too far. ;-) How's the weather where you are btw? It's pants for us wage slaves over in Blighty. No omniscience required ;-) ..........Just the ability to observe the bleedin obvious :D ...... BTW its been a warm 20 degrees today B-) ........ Got quite a sweat on laying the lawn on our pitch for the winter, and my 2 dodgy knees didn't help......but the 1.95 euro bottle of chilled Cava did :D ....... Enjoy! Not a fan of Cava because it gives me a headache. However, my brother who has lived in Spain since 1985 has told me that the c**p we get in the UK is nothing like the wonderful stuff that can be had in Spain. You might guess that my tipple of choice on the fizzy front has to come from somewhere North of where you are. It has struck me that the first thing you would mention if you had to enter the office of a recruitment firm offering jobs that paid £7.50 per hour was your dodgy knees (lol) Veronica Why would I enter a recruitment firm?....... My dodgy knees are due to a life spent since aged 16 in gainful physical employment/self employment............ Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Note I said "if you had to enter a recruitment firm". Where were you when the empathy gene was being handed out Dave? All it takes is a bit of imagination for us all to see that sometimes things worked out for us due to not only our hard work but also down to a bit of luck. I reserve my empathy gene for those who deserve it ;-) ........... I don't waste it on chancers like our plastic do gooders :-|......... As the saying goes......the harder I worked....the luckier I got :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 hi, I would have thought that IF all the people on Benefits are lazy or dodgers[not my opinion] just like everyone in employment is a hard worker, then the goats. logic should be NOT to force people over 65 to remain in work but to pay them benefits and ensure the young able bodied are in their jobs, obviously trained. Silly to have people who have worked 40yrs or more doing extra and leaving young people doing nothing. Govt. still paying a level of benefit, older people able to retire and all the young and able at work. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-21 8:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Nope..... our tenants are not on benefits as we specified NO DHSS ;-) .......and we're getting 50 quid a month more than we were asking..... because "they" offered it B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:04 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 8:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Nope..... our tenants are not on benefits as we specified NO DHSS ;-) .......and we're getting 50 quid a month more than we were asking..... because "they" offered it B-) ........ Makes no difference. Housing benefit is stoking up demand for rented properties, which is what increases the rent you are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-21 9:09 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:04 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 8:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Nope..... our tenants are not on benefits as we specified NO DHSS ;-) .......and we're getting 50 quid a month more than we were asking..... because "they" offered it B-) ........ Makes no difference. Housing benefit is stoking up demand for rented properties, which is what increases the rent you are getting. Really?......is £700 a month excessive for a 3 double bed-roomed detached house? :-| ....... I thought it was rather reasonable ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 derek pringle - 2017-11-21 9:03 AM hi, I would have thought that IF all the people on Benefits are lazy or dodgers[not my opinion] just like everyone in employment is a hard worker, then the goats. logic should be NOT to force people over 65 to remain in work but to pay them benefits and ensure the young able bodied are in their jobs, obviously trained. Silly to have people who have worked 40yrs or more doing extra and leaving young people doing nothing. Govt. still paying a level of benefit, older people able to retire and all the young and able at work. cheers derek Wouldn't solve the problem. Government intervention in the housing market has forced housing costs higher than wages for many. Benefits have to cover housing costs, wages don't. So many young people are better off on benefits. If they take a job they lose their housing benefit and might not get it back before the landlord evicts them. So they heep theirr head down and stay on benefits Who can blame them. Tell the truth - I would do the same wouldn't you? We need to bring housing costs back down in proportion to the rest of the economy before the economy can recover. But that means the landlord dominated Tory Government seeing a cut it their house prices and rental income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:13 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 9:09 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:04 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 8:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Nope..... our tenants are not on benefits as we specified NO DHSS ;-) .......and we're getting 50 quid a month more than we were asking..... because "they" offered it B-) ........ Makes no difference. Housing benefit is stoking up demand for rented properties, which is what increases the rent you are getting. Really?......is £700 a month excessive for a 3 double bed-roomed detached house? :-| ....... I thought it was rather reasonable ;-) ....... Depends on location. In any case its more than it would be if we had a genuine free market in housing so we could build enough to meet the demand. Or if we didn't have housing benefit / help to buy etc to stoke up the demand with taxpayer's borrowed money. But this so called 'free market' Government only allows a free market where it suits them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-21 9:24 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:13 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 9:09 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-21 9:04 AM John52 - 2017-11-21 8:42 AM pelmetman - 2017-11-20 7:38 PM Not filling in forms why I should be entitled to benefits *-) ........ Nobody said you were entitled to benefits. Nevertheless, you are getting them indirectly if you are a landlord living on rental income inflated by housing benefit. Nope..... our tenants are not on benefits as we specified NO DHSS ;-) .......and we're getting 50 quid a month more than we were asking..... because "they" offered it B-) ........ Makes no difference. Housing benefit is stoking up demand for rented properties, which is what increases the rent you are getting. Really?......is £700 a month excessive for a 3 double bed-roomed detached house? :-| ....... I thought it was rather reasonable ;-) ....... Depends on location. In any case its more than it would be if we had a genuine free market in housing so we could build enough to meet the demand. Or if we didn't have housing benefit / help to buy etc to stoke up the demand with taxpayer's borrowed money. But this so called 'free market' Government only allows a free market where it suits them. Not in my experience ;-) ......the rent 25 miles down the road in Boston is much higher 8-) .......but as we now know 8 in 10 new households are migrants :-| ........ So you don't need be Einstein to work out why we have a housing crisis, a NHS crisis, a education crisis, a low pay crisis, a prison crisis *-) ........ EU open door migration policy >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-21 9:16 AM derek pringle - 2017-11-21 9:03 AM hi, I would have thought that IF all the people on Benefits are lazy or dodgers[not my opinion] just like everyone in employment is a hard worker, then the goats. logic should be NOT to force people over 65 to remain in work but to pay them benefits and ensure the young able bodied are in their jobs, obviously trained. Silly to have people who have worked 40yrs or more doing extra and leaving young people doing nothing. Govt. still paying a level of benefit, older people able to retire and all the young and able at work. cheers derek Wouldn't solve the problem. Government intervention in the housing market has forced housing costs higher than wages for many. Benefits have to cover housing costs, wages don't. So many young people are better off on benefits. If they take a job they lose their housing benefit and might not get it back before the landlord evicts them. So they heep theirr head down and stay on benefits Who can blame them. Tell the truth - I would do the same wouldn't you? We need to bring housing costs back down in proportion to the rest of the economy before the economy can recover. But that means the landlord dominated Tory Government seeing a cut it their house prices and rental income. Do you own your house John? ;-) .......just curious :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.