antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 Lloyd George said it best in 1909 ' I have not a word to say about him in his personal capacity... it is the system I am attacking, not individuals (full text) "What is the landlord's increment? Who is the landlord? The landlord is a gentleman - I have not a word to say about him in his personal capacity - the landlord is a gentleman who does not earn his wealth. He does not even take the trouble to receive his wealth. He has a host of agents and clerks to receive it for him. He does not even take the trouble to spend his wealth. He has a host of people around him to do the actual spending for him. He never sees it until he comes to enjoy it. His sole function, his chief pride, is stately consumption of wealth produced by others. What about the doctor's income? How does the doctor earn his income? The doctor is a man who visits our homes when they are darkened with the shadow of death: who, by his skill, his trained courage, his genius, wrings hope out of the grip of despair, wins life out of the fangs of the Great Destroyer. All blessings upon him and his divine art of healing that mends bruised bodies and anxious hearts. To compare the reward which he gets for that labour with the wealth which pours into the pockets of the landlord purely owing to the possession of his monopoly is a piece - if they will forgive me for saying so - of insolence which no intelligent man would tolerate. Now that is the halfpenny tax on unearned increment. This system is not business, it is blackmail Now I come to the reversion tax. What is the reversion tax? You have got a system in the country which is not tolerated in any other country of the world, except, I believe, Turkey; the system whereby landlords take advantage of the fact that they have got complete control over the land to let it for a term of years, spend money upon it in building, in developing it. You improve the building, and year by year the value passes into the pockets of the landlord, and at the end of sixty, seventy, eighty or ninety years the whole of it passes away to the pockets of a man who never spent a penny upon it. Look at all this leasehold system. This system - it is the system I am attacking, not individuals - is not business, it is blackmail. I have no doubt some of you have taken the trouble to peruse some of these leases, and they are really worth reading, and I will guarantee that if you circulate copies of some of these building and mining leases at Tariff Reform meetings, and if you can get workmen at those meetings and the business men to read them, they will come away sadder but much wiser men. What are they? Ground rent is a part of it - fines, fees; you are to make no alteration without somebody's consent. Who is that somebody? It is the agent of the landlord. A fee to him. You must submit the plans to the landlords architect and get his consent. There is a fee to him. There is a fee to the surveyor; and then, of course, you cannot keep the lawyer out - he always comes in. And a fee to him. Well, that is the system, and the landlords come to us in the House of Commons and they say: If you go on taxing reversions we will grant no more leases? Is not that horrible? No more leases! No more kindly landlords with all their retinue of good fairies - agents, surveyors, lawyers - ready always to receive ground rents, fees, premiums, fines, reversions - no more, never again! They will not do it. We cannot persuade them. They wont have it. The landlord has threatened us that if we proceed with the Budget he will take his sack clean away from the hopper, and the grain which we are all grinding our best to fill his sack will go into our own. Oh, I cannot believe it. There is a limit even to the wrath of outraged landlords. We must really appease them; we must offer up some sacrifice to them. Suppose we offer the House of Lords to them? Well, you seem rather to agree with that. I will make the suggestion to them. I say their day of reckoning is at hand." (But Lloyd George's plans to impose a land tax were foiled by the landowners in the House of Lords. ) ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Oh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 2:06 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Oh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. Plastic like I said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-30 2:52 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 2:06 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Oh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. Plastic like I said Nope. You're trying to make it personal and nasty. But I will stick to attacking the system, not individuals. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 3:50 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 2:52 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 2:06 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Oh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. Plastic like I said Nope. You're trying to make it personal and nasty. But I will stick to attacking the system, not individuals. :-D Pointing out plastic socialism isn't personal and nasty just.like pointing out issues with Islam isn't Islamaphobic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 3:50 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 2:52 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 2:06 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PM John52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AM Well of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner. Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it. I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong. Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about it Oh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. Plastic like I said Nope. You're trying to make it personal and nasty. But I will stick to attacking the system, not individuals. :-D You mean personal and nasty and not attacking individuals like claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions ??? ... Yep I see what ya mean John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM You mean personal and nasty and not attacking individuals like claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions ??? ... Yep I see what ya mean John I see what you mean -, rather than use the quote button, your planB is to put words into people's mouths again to set up another straw man again . (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 9:31 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM You mean personal and nasty and not attacking individuals like claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions ??? ... Yep I see what ya mean John I see what you mean -, rather than use the quote button, your planB is to put words into people's mouths again to set up another straw man again . (lol) What you complaining about straw men for? :-S ........You've voted one in as your leader (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Well if you look back you will find that, as usual, I did not say what Antony claims I said. I asked what she saw in him, rather than stated why she married him as Antony wrongly claims. But even if she was marrying him for his £billions I couldn't blame her, because she would only be taking advantage of an unfair system like I did when I got the Building Society Demutualisation money and cheap shares in public owned utilities. Its the system I am atacking, not the individuals who take advantage of it. 'Straw Man' Corbyn is pleged to take money from the top 1% and spend it where its needed. That top 1% includes tax exiles like Desmond of the Mail, and Bank CEOs. So we shouldn't be surprised at their attempts to undermine him. Or their attempts to undermine our attempts to expose the unfair system which benefits them. So when we attack the system they try to make it personal and nasty. The top 1% can't out vote us, so they want us to fight amongst ourselves instead. Same old Tories - Divide and Rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-01 9:29 AM Well if you look back you will find that, as usual, I did not say what Antony claims I said. I asked what she saw in him, rather than stated why she married him as Antony wrongly claims. But even if she was marrying him for his £billions I couldn't blame her, because she would only be taking advantage of an unfair system like I did when I got the Building Society Demutualisation money and cheap shares in public owned utilities. Its the system I am atacking, not the individuals who take advantage of it. 'Straw Man' Corbyn is pleged to take money from the top 1% and spend it where its needed. That top 1% includes tax exiles like Desmond of the Mail, and Bank CEOs. So we shouldn't be surprised at their attempts to undermine him. Or their attempts to undermine our attempts to expose the unfair system which benefits them. So when we attack the system they try to make it personal and nasty. The top 1% can't out vote us, so they want us to fight amongst ourselves instead. Same old Tories - Divide and Rule Where did I claim you said it ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-01 10:55 AM Where did I claim you said it ??? here antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 I don't know either of them except what gets past Buckingham Palace Press Office, which I find about as believable as their absurd claims the Royal Family and hangers on only cost their subjects the price of a loaf of bread per year. So I asked what she saw in him. Thats a question not an statement.. Asking what, is not the same as stating what, she sees in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-01 12:44 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-01 10:55 AM Where did I claim you said it ??? here antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions I'm missing the bit where I put your name or said you ... Can you post it again with one or t'other of those bits please ... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-01 1:11 PM John52 - 2017-12-01 12:44 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-01 10:55 AM Where did I claim you said it ??? here antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions I'm missing the bit where I put your name or said you ... Can you post it again with one or t'other of those bits please ... Regards OK - it was when you were 'speaking on behalf of your country' antony1969 - 2017-11-28 2:05 PM John52 - 2017-11-28 12:48 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-28 9:53 AM He's not done bad for a ginger ... She's a very tasty lady ... On behalf of my country I offer our congratulations to them xxx What attracted her to this billionaire? That sums you up John ... While most celebrate and welcome a mixed race American lady into your Royal Family you suggest shes after his billions ... Stinks of bitterness to me ... I've liked Harry ever since I saw him in his Nazi uniform but he's stepped up another level picking that cracker Are you still speaking on behalf of your Country Antony :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 And were you speaking on behalf of your country when you said you liked Prince Harry in his Nazi uniform? (quote above) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-01 6:50 PM And were you speaking on behalf of your country when you said you liked Prince Harry in his Nazi uniform? (quote above) Yes on behalf of every single person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 John52 - 2017-12-01 6:45 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-01 1:11 PM John52 - 2017-12-01 12:44 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-01 10:55 AM Where did I claim you said it ??? here antony1969 - 2017-11-30 4:12 PM claiming a certain lady is marrying a certain Prince because of his billions I'm missing the bit where I put your name or said you ... Can you post it again with one or t'other of those bits please ... Regards OK - it was when you were 'speaking on behalf of your country' antony1969 - 2017-11-28 2:05 PM John52 - 2017-11-28 12:48 PM antony1969 - 2017-11-28 9:53 AM He's not done bad for a ginger ... She's a very tasty lady ... On behalf of my country I offer our congratulations to them xxx What attracted her to this billionaire? That sums you up John ... While most celebrate and welcome a mixed race American lady into your Royal Family you suggest shes after his billions ... Stinks of bitterness to me ... I've liked Harry ever since I saw him in his Nazi uniform but he's stepped up another level picking that cracker Are you still speaking on behalf of your Country Antony :D Yes John on behalf of our country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Your level of wit never ceases to amaze me Antony. However, I wonder if its worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:08 PM John52 - 2017-12-01 6:50 PM And were you speaking on behalf of your country when you said you liked Prince Harry in his Nazi uniform? (quote above) Yes on behalf of every single person. Well you don't. He was heavily castigated over it by Michael Howard who was leader of the Tory party at the time and from Romanian Jewish parentage, the Israeli foreign minister, and survivors of the concentration camps, some of whom live in the UK but don't let that small matter concern you. *-) Clarence house also issued a written statement apologising for any offence caused. Harry was a 20 year old youth at the time. He's 31 now and matured enough to have seen the error his offensive foolishness caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 John52 - 2017-11-30 2:06 PMantony1969 - 2017-11-30 1:26 PMJohn52 - 2017-11-30 11:28 AMWell of course thise who believe in Democracy can still address in the Unelected Royals in a civilised manner.Just because you disagree with the system doesn't mean you disrespect those who take advantage of it.I disagreed with the demutualisation of the Building Societies, and voted against it. But I figured that since I couldn't stop it, and somebody was going to profit from it, that might as well be me. So I took the windfall money, and I don't blame others who did. But I still think the demutaualisation was wrong.Your no different to any other plastic socialist John ... Don't beat yourself up about itOh I don't. Neither will I fall into your trap of attacking people personally for taking advantage of an unfair system. Like them I've done that myself. But that in no way stops me from wanting a fairer system. 100% hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 8:34 PM antony1969 - 2017-12-01 7:08 PM John52 - 2017-12-01 6:50 PM And were you speaking on behalf of your country when you said you liked Prince Harry in his Nazi uniform? (quote above) Yes on behalf of every single person. Well you don't. He was heavily castigated over it by Michael Howard who was leader of the Tory party at the time and from Romanian Jewish parentage, the Israeli foreign minister, and survivors of the concentration camps, some of whom live in the UK but don't let that small matter concern you. *-) Clarence house also issued a written statement apologising for any offence caused. Harry was a 20 year old youth at the time. He's 31 now and matured enough to have seen the error his offensive foolishness caused. The full time offended are selective at times ... Years ago a youth as you point out wears a German military uniform as part of a drunken fancy dress and your still carrying on about it while The Labour Party today has members that continually spew anti-Semitic hatred towards our Jewish community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Bulletguy - 2017-12-01 8:34 PM Harry was a 20 year old youth at the time. He's 31 now and matured enough to have seen the error his offensive foolishness caused. He only offended those who like to be offended ;-) ....... It gives them a chance to stamp their little feet and have another hissy fit (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5138181/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-John-McDonell-threatens-Britain.html Sounds like someone who's so "left" he's right up your street John? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 2, 2017 Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 antony1969 - 2017-12-02 6:46 AM The Labour Party today has members that continually spew anti-Semitic hatred towards our Jewish community That claim would be more convincing if you could quote some of it from a reliable source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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