Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-21 2:27 PM Ocsid - 2018-01-21 2:22 PM Is there not a case here for buying a Gaslow "direct filling" refillable bottle as opposed to their more commonly used installed system bottle? http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Products/01-4006-67-D There is a 6 kg size so should fit and by the very nature of being a portable bottle can move onto your next MH acquisition, plus it is as usable over here in the UK. There is an even smaller one and a 10 kg as well. With the demise of the Calor Light probably now is a good time for a "gas" provision rethink for many of us. I've heard that lots of places won't let you refill them. Is this an urban myth? You're right that they make a sensible option - presumably you don't need to use a new regulator? They include a 37mbar but the head on my van is a 30 I think. The potential problem with the “Gaslow Direct” bottle approach (I’ve chosen to fit the 11kg variant to my Rapido) is that refilling will unavoidably involve opening the gas-locker door to allow the autogas pump-gun to be connected to the Gaslow bottle. For a service-station attendant who has been instructed to forbid the filling of ‘portable’ gas bottles, seeing a motorhome by an autogas pump with its gas-locker door open will quite likely cause alarm. And, if the motorhome owner actually seeks advice/assistance from the attendant, it’s even more likely that refilling will not be permitted. It is possible to buy “Gaslow Direct” bottles in France (though they are much more expensive then in the UK), but there are strict regulations regarding user-refillable-bottle installation on French-registered motorhomes and the “Gaslow Direct” approach is not acceptable. The following link describes the installation procedure http://camping-car-webzine.fr/fiche-gpl-gaslow.html and it will be seen that metal fixings must be employed to secure the bottle in the gas-locker and there must be a remote filling-point that avoids having to open the locker door. So a French service-station attendant may be comfortable with gas-refilling via a remote filling-point, but not accept ‘direct’ filling even if the gas-bottle is the same in both cases. (Although a “Gaslow Direct” bottle is supplied with a 37mbar on-bottle regulator, as your Bessacarr has a 30mbar bulkhead-mounted regulator, the 37mbar regulator would be redundant.) If your Bessacarr’s gas-locker can accept the 305-mm diameter “Energaz” 9kg propane bottle Casimir mentioned, it will certainly accommodate a Le Cube and quite a few other French bottles too. The Energaz bottle will have an outlet to accept a 21.8LH connector, so all you’d need to connect to it would be this type of adaptor on the end of your current pigtail. https://tinyurl.com/y79ad3q3 Having carefully measured your Bessacarr’s locker’s interior dimensions and its doorway width, if it’s obvious to you that a Le Cube would not fit in, your options are to hope your 2 x 6kg Calor bottles will be enough, or to understand that, if they run out, you’ll probably need to switch to Campingaz. There are adaptors that would allow a Calor bottle to be refilled with autogas in France (example here) http://www.lpgadapter.com/pol-uk-gas-bottle-to-dish-autogas-station-filling-lpg-adapter However, Calor will not approve this https://www.calor.co.uk/news/calor-warns-about-unlawful-filling-of-lpg-cylinders-at-autogas-refuelling-sites/ and the method involves risks not present with a ‘proper’ refillable bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-01-21 3:29 PM You can avoid the gas problem by having a 120 ltr ducato tank and the famous truma 4000 watt heating- hot water boiler and a compressor fridge. The gasbottle and tanks installed in the uk seems to me looking like having not a single standard. Presumably you are referring to Truma’s “Combi D” heaters https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/2%20gb/combi_gb/combi_diesel_gb.html A Webasto diesel-fuelled cooker would also be handy, or one of these https://www.campervanheating.co.uk/ Or you could just stay in a hotel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-21 2:27 PM I've heard that lots of places won't let you refill them. Is this an urban myth? You're right that they make a sensible option - presumably you don't need to use a new regulator? They include a 37mbar but the head on my van is a 30 I think. Here in southern Hampshire there are few forecourts selling LPG with most not allowing portable refilling so IMO here it is not an urban myth. Plus, the number of LPG pumps, again locally are decreasing I expect reflecting the dropping demand for that fuel from cars. So there is a potential problem but colleagues with these bottles seem to know outlets where they can refill quietly. Is there an option with these Gaslow direct bottles of up grading it to a fixed system come the new MH, so refilling being less restricted? In your case you will not need a new regulator or "pig-tail" as these bottles have a standard UK propane connection like the Calor lites. I went over to Gas-light in BPs days and remain pleased I did. These like the Le-cube use a 27 mm clip-on so I have always the option if I run out in France of just buying into one of those. That need has not yet occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Ocsid - 2018-01-21 4:05 PM Duffer - 2018-01-21 2:27 PM I've heard that lots of places won't let you refill them. Is this an urban myth? You're right that they make a sensible option - presumably you don't need to use a new regulator? They include a 37mbar but the head on my van is a 30 I think. Here in southern Hampshire there are few forecourts selling LPG with most not allowing portable refilling so IMO here it is not an urban myth. Plus, the number of LPG pumps, again locally are decreasing I expect reflecting the dropping demand for that fuel from cars. So there is a potential problem but colleagues with these bottles seem to know outlets where they can refill quietly. Is there an option with these Gaslow direct bottles of up grading it to a fixed system come the new MH, so refilling being less restricted? In your case you will not need a new regulator or "pig-tail" as these bottles have a standard UK propane connection like the Calor lites. I went over to Gas-light in BPs days and remain pleased I did. These like the Le-cube use a 27 mm clip-on so I have always the option if I run out in France of just buying into one of those. That need has not yet occurred. Yes, I'd heard that a lot of forecourts were stopping LPG as demand is very low - not many LPG cars are around so it isn't paying its way. So, with a system fitted to a motorhome it will end up with having to drive in to a city to get refilled. And imagine what it'll be like for those poor caravanners with fixed tanks like the Lunars. I'd love to see them all getting in to towns. But of course none of them will be able to because of Emission zones . . . . (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I will not stay in a hotel derek, having a westfalia- Van 540D Admundsen who have this equipment installed. But your info given on refuel gas in motorhomes is just impressive for your country. We just do not this in the flanders north of belgium. My partner will go that way to avoid the hassle of this if i have to drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I was going to recommend Safefill refillable lightweight bottles and a selection of adaptors. As they take no more to “install” than a Calor bottle and can be transferred to your new fan when needed with out touching a spanner. The Gas situation in Europe is a minefield. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Ocsid - 2018-01-21 4:05 PM ...Is there an option with these Gaslow direct bottles of up grading it to a fixed system come the new MH, so refilling being less restricted? Converting my Rapido’s gas-system that includes a “Gaslow Direct” R67 11kg bottle to a ‘fixed’ system with a remote filling-point would involve replacing the direct-filling adaptor that’s currently attached to the bottle’s filling-inlet (adaptor shown here) http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-Direct-Fill-Adapter with a filler ‘kit’ (example shown here) http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Gaslow-White-Filler-Kit-15m-Fill-Hose Plainly, if it’s wished to avoid having the gas-locker door open when refilling , it will be necessary to carry out extra work to install the remote filling-point http://www.gaslowshop.co.uk/2016/11/21/how-to-fit-a-gaslow-kit-to-your-motorhome-or-caravan/ http://www.dicklanemotorhomes.co.uk/pdfs/gaslow-filling-instructions.pdf and how tricky this work will be will vary from motorhome to motorhome. (Not easy for my Rapido.) ...In your case you will not need a new regulator or "pig-tail" as these bottles have a standard UK propane connection like the Calor lites... I’m not sure which bottles you are referring to, but the outlet of Gaslow and other metal refillable bottles is the male 21.8LH type as used on Calor 4.5kg BUTANE canisters. So for Keith to connect his Bessacarr’s present gas-system to a metal refillable bottle would require a replacement pigtail or an adaptor for his current UK-norm propane pigtail. The only user-refillable containers that have the same female POL outlet as Calor propane canisters' are the “Safefill” composite bottles http://www.safefill.co.uk/ but these have a 305mm diameter, won’t fit in a gas-locker designed to accommodate Calor 6kg canisters and have other issues that need to be borne in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Keith At the very beginning you said "I believe I'm taking enough gas (2 x 6kg bottles) ...” This suggests to me that you’ve made preliminary decisions regarding where in France you’ll be going, when and how long the trip will be, and the ‘pattern’ of camping you’ll be doing there. It also suggests that you have a reasonable idea what your gas usage normally is, otherwise you would not be able to make a value judgement as to the likelihood of 2 x 6kg bottles lasting the whole trip. Let’s assume that you’ll be heading abroad with two full Calor 6kg bottles in your motorhome’s gas-locker and that, if those bottles run out, you’ll obtain a replacement bottle in France. Depending on the size of the gas-locker, the replacement procedure would involve removing (at best) one of the Calor bottles to permit the larger French bottle to be installed. So what would you do with the Calor bottle that has been displaced from the locker? If you were thinking “I’ll store the empty bottle inside the motorhome and take it back to the UK”, then you might consider taking a 3rd full Calor bottle with you when you set off, storing that bottle inside the vehicle. If 2 x 6kg bottles will probably be enough, 3 x 6kg bottles should definitely be sufficient. I can’t say I much care for the idea of carrying gas-bottles inside a motorhome, but people do do it and it’s a simple option that might save you having to make in-advance decisions about different-bottle choice or having to source a gas-bottle in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-22 8:30 AM Keith At the very beginning you said "I believe I'm taking enough gas (2 x 6kg bottles) ...” This suggests to me that you’ve made preliminary decisions regarding where in France you’ll be going, when and how long the trip will be, and the ‘pattern’ of camping you’ll be doing there. It also suggests that you have a reasonable idea what your gas usage normally is, otherwise you would not be able to make a value judgement as to the likelihood of 2 x 6kg bottles lasting the whole trip. Let’s assume that you’ll be heading abroad with two full Calor 6kg bottles in your motorhome’s gas-locker and that, if those bottles run out, you’ll obtain a replacement bottle in France. Depending on the size of the gas-locker, the replacement procedure would involve removing (at best) one of the Calor bottles to permit the larger French bottle to be installed. So what would you do with the Calor bottle that has been displaced from the locker? If you were thinking “I’ll store the empty bottle inside the motorhome and take it back to the UK”, then you might consider taking a 3rd full Calor bottle with you when you set off, storing that bottle inside the vehicle. If 2 x 6kg bottles will probably be enough, 3 x 6kg bottles should definitely be sufficient. I can’t say I much care for the idea of carrying gas-bottles inside a motorhome, but people do do it and it’s a simple option that might save you having to make in-advance decisions about different-bottle choice or having to source a gas-bottle in France. I travel all over the UK and run the fridge and water on gas when I'm on small sites or THSs, but that tends to be when the weather is milder. If I need to run the heating on gas then I may potentially have an issue - especially if I extend the trip. So, considering what's been said, another option would be to take just one bottle and then buy one and a fitting (taking a butane tail with me) when I get there and use the bought one in preference to the Calor. That way I have the best of both worlds. I will swap the euro one whenever / If I run out. My gas locker is large and I think I may even fit a 13kg - I have emailed Swift to ask them. (I have the van in storage and don't intend visiting it for a couple of weeks.) I've always run with 2 x 6kg but there is a lot of free space above and around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 A quick scan through and I can't spot how long you are going for and what time of year as both of these have their effect upon gas requirements. Apologies if I missed it! In spring and autumn we used to reckon on about a litre of gas a day - or half a kilo roughly - up to a kilo if it's cold - less if it's warm. Horses fer courses, and I can see the attraction of using local bottles if you only visit one country but they have to be bought, connected and stored. When we started spending longer away than 3 x 6 kg Calor Lite, as I mentioned earlier, would last I bought a used 6 kg refillable and three adaptors so I could refill anywhere in the EU. With a full Calor as back up and nothing else it worked for us, took no extra storage, did not need a krypton factor degree to connect up, always worked, and did not cost the earth. Simples! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Tracker - 2018-01-22 12:02 PM A quick scan through and I can't spot how long you are going for and what time of year as both of these have their effect upon gas requirements. Apologies if I missed it! In spring and autumn we used to reckon on about a litre of gas a day - or half a kilo roughly - up to a kilo if it's cold - less if it's warm. Horses fer courses, and I can see the attraction of using local bottles if you only visit one country but they have to be bought, connected and stored. When we started spending longer away than 3 x 6 kg Calor Lite, as I mentioned earlier, would last I bought a used 6 kg refillable and three adaptors so I could refill anywhere in the EU. With a full Calor as back up and nothing else it worked for us, took no extra storage, did not need a krypton factor degree to connect up, always worked, and did not cost the earth. Simples! Hi Rich, I'm hoping to go mid / late March and will go for 3 weeks but possibly longer (well, you know how it is - have wheels, will travel). The problem is that March and April can be warm or cold and there's no way of knowing until you awaken. My van is 6m coachbuilt and winterised to grade 3. Manufacturer has now confirmed that a 13kg will fit so I'll clear the locker out and swap one of my old spare bottles for a 13kg. I'll set-off with just one bottle and I'll take a butane tail with me and buy a bottle in France (Intermarche seems cheap with 1 euro deposit) which I'll use daily. If it runs out whilst I'm still bumbling about, then I'll swap it for a new. If I'm close to returning, I'll just turn my Calor on. I think :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-22 10:17 AM................................. My gas locker is large and I think I may even fit a 13kg - I have emailed Swift to ask them. (I have the van in storage and don't intend visiting it for a couple of weeks.) I've always run with 2 x 6kg but there is a lot of free space above and around. It may depend on the year of your van. The 2015 Swift catalogue states that the Bessacarr 412 has a gas locker for 2 x 13kg cylinders. If this is true for your van, I'm going to suggest you get a 13kg UK cylinder, and supplement that with a 13kg propane cylinder in France. If you go for Butagaz, which are widely available at almost all supermarkets, you will be looking for the silver and blue cylinders. The connection is 21.8LH, and is the same as for UK butane. So, all you'll need is a UK 21.8LH butane pigtail or, if you want to hedge your bets, the cheaper option would be a UK POL to 21.8LH adaptor such as that linked above by Keith. Your van has a Truma Duo Control CS regulator, designed to be used with the gas turned on at the cylinder while driving, that pigtail will need to be the type equipped with a hose rupture shut-off valve. These are available from Truma agents, probably your nearest motorhome accessory shop. That way you will have all eventualities covered. If your UK cylinder runs out your system will switch to the French cylinder, and vice versa. At that point you have a 13kg reserve, so you can drive home to swap the empty UK cylinder at your usual source. When the French cylinder runs out, your system will switch to the UK cylinder, and you just need to pick up a replacement French cylinder the next time you do supermarket shopping. The point to remember is that at some point you will set of on a trip with a cylinder that is near empty, so an all UK system based on 6kg cylinders doesn't offer much comfort - unless you are happy to swap any used cylinder for a new one, irrespective of how much gas is wasted. Depending on convenience, and if the French cylinder runs out late in your trip, the Auchan filling station at Calais on Avenue Roger Salengro has racks of Butagaz cylinders, so you can easily get a handy swap en-route to, of from, ferry or shuttle. I have been doing this for the past 12 years, and our journeys have extended way beyond France: to Portugal, Croatia, even Greece, on trips lasting 8 - 12 weeks, and we have never yet run out of gas using the above method. I should just add that we use campsites, so our consumption is relatively light, and we don't use the van between November and March, so don't have much need of the heating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-22 12:30 PM I'm hoping to go mid / late March and will go for 3 weeks but possibly longer (well, you know how it is - have wheels, will travel). The problem is that March and April can be warm or cold and there's no way of knowing until you awaken. My van is 6m coachbuilt and winterised to grade 3. Manufacturer has now confirmed that a 13kg will fit so I'll clear the locker out and swap one of my old spare bottles for a 13kg. I'll set-off with just one bottle and I'll take a butane tail with me and buy a bottle in France (Intermarche seems cheap with 1 euro deposit) which I'll use daily. If it runs out whilst I'm still bumbling about, then I'll swap it for a new. If I'm close to returning, I'll just turn my Calor on. I think :-) Sounds like a plan! If you absolutely intend buying a French bottle and pigtail then why lumber yourself with a 13 kg Calor? They are very heavy and bulky and not easy to store in a van and if it is only a backup then surely a 6 kg will do that job, and you already have that? We never used sites or ehu and our gas use refelects that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I tend to agree with Tracker about staying with a Calor 6kg canister as the back-up bottle. If the Bessacarr is fitted with a Truma DuoControl CS device, when only one gas-bottle is connected to it the device’s other inlet should be blanked off with the brass thingie hanging down in the 1st photo on this link https://www.truma.com/int/en/products/truma-caravan-rv-gas-fittings/truma-duocontrol-cs.html A Truma anti-rupture ‘pigtail' appropriate for a Calor propane bottle would not NEED to be replaced to connect to a French bottle - all that would be required would be the POL-to-21.8LH adaptor shown here https://tinyurl.com/y79ad3q3 One could, of course, replace the present pigtail with an equivalent with a 21.8LH end-fitting, but it’s a costly way to go as Truma anti-rupture hoses cost over £30. (NB. Make sure suitable-size spanners are carried.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-22 12:30 PM If it runs out whilst I'm still bumbling about, then I'll swap it for a new. If I'm close to returning, I'll just turn my Calor on. I think :-) And of course the Calor will serve as backup at any stage in the trip, when the French bottle runs out late in the evening (which is when it will, Murphy's Law!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Update: I've swapped an old empty 6kg for a 13 and have bought a 21mm clip on. I've ordered a 27mm clip on and a tail end converter for propane to butane. Now that I've got the 13 I will soon know for sure whether it fits or not! I'll travel with the 13 and buy summat when I refuel. I've read that the Intermarche' is 1 euro deposit and 19 per bottle so that is tempting, and Intermarche' stores seem to cover the country. (Hopefully their bottle is smaller than a Calor 13? Anyone know the clip-on size?) I'm happy to carry a French bottle as hopefully this trip will go well and I'll be back in a few month's time. (Last year in June I was sweltering in a balmy 9 degrees in Scotland so some mid-year warmth is appealing.) I'm still fighting for recovery cover at a sensible price - separate thread - and as my current cover expires mid-March I'm not likely to get through the tunnel before then (oh, and then it's Easter so France will be on strike). So I'm probably off to Norfolk for a few days and then to Brid in February. At least I'll have electric to heat the van :-) Hopefully all is now settled. Thanks to everyone for their input and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I’m not sure why you’ve bought a 21mm clip-on adaptor as the only French (propane) bottles this is used with are the ‘half height’ ones like “Twiny”, “Malice” and “Elfi”- and if you could get one of those into your Bessacarr’s locker, you could get one of the bigger metal French bottles instead. Any gas-locker that can accommodate a Calor 13kg propane bottle should be able to accommodate a French 13kg metal bottle and smaller-capacity variants like the Intermarche 9kg one. And ALL of the those French metal bottles have a 21.8LH outlet not the ‘clip-on’ type. E Leclerc supermarkets seem to be marketing a “Clairgaz” 11kg propane canister for 1€ deposit, which you might want to consider. https://selectra.info/propane/fournisseurs/clairgaz/bouteilles/propane-11kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-22 6:53 PM I’m not sure why you’ve bought a 21mm clip-on adaptor as the only French (propane) bottles this is used with are the ‘half height’ ones like “Twiny”, “Malice” and “Elfi”- and if you could get one of those into your Bessacarr’s locker, you could get one of the bigger metal French bottles instead. Any gas-locker that can accommodate a Calor 13kg propane bottle should be able to accommodate a French 13kg metal bottle and smaller-capacity variants like the Intermarche 9kg one. And ALL of the those French metal bottles have a 21.8LH outlet not the ‘clip-on’ type. E Leclerc supermarkets seem to be marketing a “Clairgaz” 11kg propane canister for 1€ deposit, which you might want to consider. https://selectra.info/propane/fournisseurs/clairgaz/bouteilles/propane-11kg I've bought the adapters because, elsewhere, people have suggested it's useful to have a variety of sizes. I may well buy more. To me, it is better to have and not use than not have and need. Without the benefit of years of insight into French gas bottles, and with the benefit of having read many conflicting opinions, I will try and assimilate the facts and do what I feel comfortable with. If it only fits little bottles, then that's fine because it now means I can also use little bottles too. It was a damn sight cheaper than installing an underslung tank or other re-fillable systems in a van that I might replace as its now 3 years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Personal view, but if it were me, I'd not go for supermarket branded gas tied to their chains, even if it is that bit cheaper. The supermarket chains, even Intermarché, are not evenly represented across France, and there is no guarantee that your chosen chain will be present in any given town. That was my main reason for suggesting Butagaz. It is sold by, so far as I know, all the supermarket chains. It is definitely sold by Le Clerc, Auchan, Intermarche, Casino/Geant, Super/Hyper U, and Carrefour. There has also been quite a bit of "churning" among the French supermarkets with outlets changing hands, and some chains disappearing altogether (usually being taken over by one of the others) meaning that tied suppliers may become difficult to locate. Why carry two 13kg cylinders? Well, as I said above, if you have one cylinder that has already been in use, you can have no real idea of how much is left. Thus, you may set of on a trip with only a few days of gas left in your main cylinder, meaning that it will quickly run out and you will have to live off the reserve for the rest of your trip. If your reserve is also 13kg you can be reasonably confident that your remaining supply will see you through. Yes, the 13kg cylinders are heavy (about 28kg/62lb each) so you need to check payload and possibly axle loading, and be comfortable handling their weight. But, if those considerations are acceptable, the gain is considerable autonomy. Since your plan seems very flexible in terms of both time and destination, I would have thought that extra autonomy might prove an advantage. BTW, I wouldn't count on too much in terms of warmth in France, even along the Med, in mid March. You'd really need to be the other side of the Pyrenees at that time of year, and a bit further south still, for a reasonable likelihood of catching warm spring weather. One of the great advantages of a motorhome is you can just follow the good weather. In 2012 we thought we'd do a tour around the Dordogne. When we arrived it was cold and damp, so we looked at the weather forecasts and found the best weather was in Provence. Our route from 'tother to which was across the Auvergne, where the low outside temperature warning began flashing up on the dash! This was in late April, but Provence was much warmer when we arrived! OTOH, we pottered into Apt (Provence) in early October 2016 and it was so miserably cold that after three days we decided to cut our losses and head for home. Neither typical, just that weather is variable and fickle, particularly in spring and autumn. That's were the flexibility pays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Duffer - 2018-01-22 6:22 PM Update: I've swapped an old empty 6kg for a 13... Now that I've got the 13 I will soon know for sure whether it fits or not Keith, I did a spot of Google searching and unfortunately all the info I could find said that Bessacarr 400 series MH's of similar age to yours could only take 2 x 7 kg cylinders (7 kg is the Butane equivalent of your 6 kg Propane). So I somehow doubt the 13 kg cylinder will fit your MH, but obviously still worth trying to confirm. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-01-22 9:38 PM Personal view, but if it were me, I'd not go for supermarket branded gas tied to their chains, even if it is that bit cheaper. The supermarket chains, even Intermarché, are not evenly represented across France, and there is no guarantee that your chosen chain will be present in any given town. That was my main reason for suggesting Butagaz. It is sold by, so far as I know, all the supermarket chains. It is definitely sold by Le Clerc, Auchan, Intermarche, Casino/Geant, Super/Hyper U, and Carrefour. There has also been quite a bit of "churning" among the French supermarkets with outlets changing hands, and some chains disappearing altogether (usually being taken over by one of the others) meaning that tied suppliers may become difficult to locate. Why carry two 13kg cylinders? Well, as I said above, if you have one cylinder that has already been in use, you can have no real idea of how much is left. Thus, you may set of on a trip with only a few days of gas left in your main cylinder, meaning that it will quickly run out and you will have to live off the reserve for the rest of your trip. If your reserve is also 13kg you can be reasonably confident that your remaining supply will see you through. Yes, the 13kg cylinders are heavy (about 28kg/62lb each) so you need to check payload and possibly axle loading, and be comfortable handling their weight. But, if those considerations are acceptable, the gain is considerable autonomy. Since your plan seems very flexible in terms of both time and destination, I would have thought that extra autonomy might prove an advantage. BTW, I wouldn't count on too much in terms of warmth in France, even along the Med, in mid March. You'd really need to be the other side of the Pyrenees at that time of year, and a bit further south still, for a reasonable likelihood of catching warm spring weather. One of the great advantages of a motorhome is you can just follow the good weather. In 2012 we thought we'd do a tour around the Dordogne. When we arrived it was cold and damp, so we looked at the weather forecasts and found the best weather was in Provence. Our route from 'tother to which was across the Auvergne, where the low outside temperature warning began flashing up on the dash! This was in late April, but Provence was much warmer when we arrived! OTOH, we pottered into Apt (Provence) in early October 2016 and it was so miserably cold that after three days we decided to cut our losses and head for home. Neither typical, just that weather is variable and fickle, particularly in spring and autumn. That's were the flexibility pays off. Hi Brian. Intermarche' seem to be well distributed across France, but I take on board what you say and Butagaz sounds s good idea. I ordered the thread adapter the other day so should be OK. I also now have a couple of clip-on adapters (with on/offs) just in case. I'm glad that you appreciate the reason for why I'm taking two 13s - I thought I was out on a limb with that! The locker is mid way down the van and low, so carrying etc isn't a problem. (I had an Autosleeper once where you had to be a contortionist to get even a 6kg bottle in.) I have over 600kg for payload so even with a sack or two of dog food I'm still reasonably light. I know it won't be hot, nor possibly warm, but what's mild to a man living on a hill in Derbyshire is probably a few degrees lower than to a man from Sussex :-) And wet? I've not had me wellies off since I got back from the Lake District in late November. March/April for me, is normally the Yorkshire Dales and Moors so I think that heading south may mean that I can at least leave the thermals at home! And yes, as you say, I can always up sticks and move. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Hi, Swift confirm it does and I thought it ought to as I have plenty of headroom above the bottles and around. I wish I'd realised before as it would have made some of the trips around Scotland and the Isles easier :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Keithl - 2018-01-23 7:22 AM Duffer - 2018-01-22 6:22 PM Update: I've swapped an old empty 6kg for a 13... Now that I've got the 13 I will soon know for sure whether it fits or not Keith, I did a spot of Google searching and unfortunately all the info I could find said that Bessacarr 400 series MH's of similar age to yours could only take 2 x 7 kg cylinders (7 kg is the Butane equivalent of your 6 kg Propane). So I somehow doubt the 13 kg cylinder will fit your MH, but obviously still worth trying to confirm. Keith. Based on the technical handbooks on the Swift Group website, the Bessacarr E412 model seems to have initially been marketed for the 2013 model year. On-line photos show its gas-locker on the right, high up on the body side and with a narrow door. There’s no chance that a 13kg bottle could be inserted and this is confirmed in Swift’s literature for the 2013 model-year that defines the gas-capacity maximum of the E400 range as 2 x 7kg bottles. The 2 x 7kg bottles limit (apparently) continued until the 2016 model-year, when the Bessacarr E412 model was revamped and the gas-locker was moved to the left side of the motorhome, low down and just to the rear of the cab. The locker’s door is much larger and it definitely looks looks like 13kg bottles could be accommodatted. The Swift technical handbook for the 2016 model-year confirms this, saying that only the 424 model’s locker was restricted to 2 x 7kg bottles, whereas all other Bessacarr models’ lockers could hold 2 x 13kg bottles. (I would have thought that the redesign would have been when the Ducato X290 chassis became available (which should have been in time for the 2015 model-year) though that’s not what the Swift documentation suggests happened.) The 1st photo I’ve attached shows the gas-locker’s position on a 2014 Bessacarr 412, with the 2nd photo showing the locker of a 2016 412. The difference in the locker-door size is very plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffer Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-23 8:48 AM Keithl - 2018-01-23 7:22 AM Duffer - 2018-01-22 6:22 PM Update: I've swapped an old empty 6kg for a 13... Now that I've got the 13 I will soon know for sure whether it fits or not Keith, I did a spot of Google searching and unfortunately all the info I could find said that Bessacarr 400 series MH's of similar age to yours could only take 2 x 7 kg cylinders (7 kg is the Butane equivalent of your 6 kg Propane). So I somehow doubt the 13 kg cylinder will fit your MH, but obviously still worth trying to confirm. Keith. Based on the technical handbooks on the Swift Group website, the Bessacarr E412 model seems to have initially been marketed for the 2013 model year. On-line photos show its gas-locker on the right, high up on the body side and with a narrow door. There’s no chance that a 13kg bottle could be inserted and this is confirmed in Swift’s literature for the 2013 model-year that defines the gas-capacity maximum of the E400 range as 2 x 7kg bottles. The 2 x 7kg bottles limit (apparently) continued until the 2016 model-year, when the Bessacarr E412 model was revamped and the gas-locker was moved to the left side of the motorhome, low down and just to the rear of the cab. The locker’s door is much larger and it definitely looks looks like 13kg bottles could be accommodatted. The Swift technical handbook for the 2016 model-year confirms this, saying that only the 424 model’s locker was restricted to 2 x 7kg bottles, whereas all other Bessacarr models’ lockers could hold 2 x 13kg bottles. (I would have thought that the redesign would have been when the Ducato X290 chassis became available (which should have been in time for the 2015 model-year) though that’s not what the Swift documentation suggests happened.) The 1st photo I’ve attached shows the gas-locker’s position on a 2014 Bessacarr 412, with the 2nd photo showing the locker of a 2016 412. The difference in the locker-door size is very plain. Yes, as mentioned in a couple of my earlier posts, the manufacturer has confirmed that the locker will take 13kg bottles and that is why I bought one yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Presumably, then, your Bessacarr 412 motorhome’s gas-locker is on the vehicle’s left-hand side as in the 2nd photo on my previous posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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