Violet1956 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-11 12:13 PM Violet1956 - 2018-03-11 10:41 AM I think the writer goes from speaking about the ideological background of some of Corbyn's inner circle to suggesting that with a Labour government we are in for a Communist government the like of the Russian Federation. That is an opinion which fails to take account of the very mixed bag of Labour politicians some of whom are moderate as the writer acknowledges. I have never said I support Labour Dave you have jumped to a conclusion that I do. I would support Barry's new party if only it did not address a need I don't have at the moment (lol). A mixed bag that Momentum are currently in the process of purging ;-) ......... Very Soviet dontcha think? >:-) ........... Where is the evidence that Momentum are in the process of purging moderates within the Labour party? It is a genuine question as I've looked for it and can find none. You might have a source I have yet to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-03-11 12:42 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-11 12:13 PM Violet1956 - 2018-03-11 10:41 AM I think the writer goes from speaking about the ideological background of some of Corbyn's inner circle to suggesting that with a Labour government we are in for a Communist government the like of the Russian Federation. That is an opinion which fails to take account of the very mixed bag of Labour politicians some of whom are moderate as the writer acknowledges. I have never said I support Labour Dave you have jumped to a conclusion that I do. I would support Barry's new party if only it did not address a need I don't have at the moment (lol). A mixed bag that Momentum are currently in the process of purging ;-) ......... Very Soviet dontcha think? >:-) ........... Where is the evidence that Momentum are in the process of purging moderates within the Labour party? It is a genuine question as I've looked for it and can find none. You might have a source I have yet to find. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5344154/corbyn-tightens-grip-on-labour/ https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/930014/Momentum-Labour-activists-far-Left-oust-moderate-local-Labour-leader-Tim-Dwelly https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/daggers-glint-as-momentum-tries-to-rip-labour-from-unionsgrasp-2gnzbwjl0 https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/923643/labour-party-momentum-manchester-council-ben-clay-marcus-jones-mp https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/18/secret-tape-reveals-momentum-plot-to-link-with-unite-seize-control-of-labour https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-haringey-council-leader-quits-11940028 https://news.sky.com/story/blackadder-star-toby-robinson-hits-out-at-jeremy-corbyns-leftist-clique-11210455 http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-momentum-wins-delegate-boost-in-local-labour-parties-ahead-of-2017-party-conference_uk_59566643e4b05c37bb7de425 http://englishdemocrats.party/english_democrats_around_england/far-left-extremists-momentum-attempts-to-fully-cement-its-control-over-labour-party/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Thank you Antony. I have read a few of the links and also some stuff in the Sunday Times today so I have much more of an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Ah, the left and the right! :-D One good, the other bad. Choose your good, choose your bad. What does history tell us? The main lesson, to me, is that if either gets more than two terms in government they cock it up, and the voter's sentiment swings in the opposite direction to pull it back together. The right is authoritarian, pro business, hawkish, adversarial, laissez faire, pro small government, pro low taxation, puritanical. The left is pro equality, pro people, dovish, interventionist, collaborationist, statist, pro collectivism, and indulgent. When either gets protracted control of a state, they become complacent and begin to think they have govern by right. How long it takes the voter to switch allegiance depends, it seems to me, on how long the "other lot" were in power before being turfed out. After more than two terms in government the parties fail to do their job in opposition for at least one full term. So, they fail to convince sufficient people that they are a "government in waiting", and don't get elected. Meanwhile, the party of government begins to exhaust its ideas (usually demonstrating in the process that many of them weren't very good ideas!) until the crossover point is reached again, and the opposition begins to look more appealing as a government, and then they (we) change ends and off we go again. Being predominantly a two party country, we thus lurch between the extremes, wasting £billions on failed projects as we go, but gradually evolving policies that settle somewhere in the middle ground until the middle ground shifts (Macmillan's famous "events"), and new policies for our changed circumstances are required. Then, off we go again playing political ping-pong until common sense more or less triumphs. It is flagrantly wasteful at almost every level, it stunts our social and economic growth, it is at times dangerous, and it is profoundly stupid. We are nationally hooked on the myth that it results in "strong" governments, and are blind to its glaring deficiencies. Meanwhile, others fare better while we ridicule their systems in preference to learning from, and adapting to, them. Look back up this string and all that is visible is the left castigating the right, and the right castigating the left. Neither seems to know why they do this, both exaggerate the great "benefits" they have wrought, both boast they, and they alone, have the golden keys (despite the fact that neither seem to be able to find them when in government :-)). Oh, if only.....................................! To paraphrase Burns: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie them To see themsels as ithers see them! It wad frae mony a blunder free them, An' foolish notion: What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e them, An' ev'n devotion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 I suppose it is inevitable that the far left will seek to capitalise (no pun intended) on the increasing gap between the haves and the have nots. The truth as far as I see it is that no party has control of the forces at work that continue to dictate whether you are a winner or a loser in the economic stakes. Dave P has no need to worry because I doubt there ever be a communist government here in the UK as we are way too conservative with a small “c” for that. I think most Brits are canny enough to see that any radical increase in state intervention will only bring a different kind of greedy pig to the trough. Would that the Tories showed more commitment to address the kind of troughing that their greedy pig backers indulge in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-11 4:39 PM To paraphrase Burns: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie them To see themsels as ithers see them! It wad frae mony a blunder free them, An' foolish notion: What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e them, An' ev'n devotion! So English wasn't his first language? :D ......... He'll be another one of those dam migrants (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-03-11 7:04 PM I suppose it is inevitable that the far left will seek to capitalise (no pun intended) on the increasing gap between the haves and the have nots. The truth as far as I see it is that no party has control of the forces at work that continue to dictate whether you are a winner or a loser in the economic stakes. Dave P has no need to worry because I doubt there ever be a communist government here in the UK as we are way too conservative with a small “c” for that. I think most Brits are canny enough to see that any radical increase in state intervention will only bring a different kind of greedy pig to the trough. Would that the Tories showed more commitment to address the kind of troughing that their greedy pig backers indulge in. I shouldn't be so sure.......the Communists have been at it for years in the back ground infiltrating Universities, Unions and now with the aid of Momentum they've got their useful idiot in charge of Labour ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Going back to the original OP, Tony Blairs Brexit poll. Have a look at the official link and facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y8vfaz6v Seems it was hijacked by #Naughtynigel (lol) However whoever hijacked it missed their twitter poll which to be honest even I find hard to accept the results of. Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-03-12 3:16 PM Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? I guess it depends on where you lived :-| ........ The East End of London is no longer black and white *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-03-12 3:16 PM Going back to the original OP, Tony Blairs Brexit poll. Have a look at the official link and facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y8vfaz6v Seems it was hijacked by #Naughtynigel (lol) However whoever hijacked it missed their twitter poll which to be honest even I find hard to accept the results of. Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? Not satisfied with their £350 million lie on that silly bus or Farages abuse of a poster to whip up xenophobia, that revelation shows just how desperate Brexiters have become now. Ostrich mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-03-12 10:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-03-12 3:16 PM Going back to the original OP, Tony Blairs Brexit poll. Have a look at the official link and facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y8vfaz6v Seems it was hijacked by #Naughtynigel (lol) However whoever hijacked it missed their twitter poll which to be honest even I find hard to accept the results of. Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? Not satisfied with their £350 million lie on that silly bus or Farages abuse of a poster to whip up xenophobia, that revelation shows just how desperate Brexiters have become now. Ostrich mentality. Brexiteers desperate??? 8-) ........Now that is funny (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Even old Eeyore Hammond is having to change his tune >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-13 9:36 AM Bulletguy - 2018-03-12 10:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-03-12 3:16 PM Going back to the original OP, Tony Blairs Brexit poll. Have a look at the official link and facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y8vfaz6v Seems it was hijacked by #Naughtynigel (lol) However whoever hijacked it missed their twitter poll which to be honest even I find hard to accept the results of. Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? Not satisfied with their £350 million lie on that silly bus or Farages abuse of a poster to whip up xenophobia, that revelation shows just how desperate Brexiters have become now. Ostrich mentality. Brexiteers desperate??? 8-) ........ Why else would they feel the need to hijack a poll to fake it into a pro-Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-12 8:59 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-11 4:39 PM To paraphrase Burns: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie them To see themsels as ithers see them! It wad frae mony a blunder free them, An' foolish notion: What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e them, An' ev'n devotion! So English wasn't his first language? :D ......... He'll be another one of those dam migrants (lol) ........ I see that you're a fan of "standard" English, then, Dave. How can that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-03-13 2:35 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-13 9:36 AM Bulletguy - 2018-03-12 10:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-03-12 3:16 PM Going back to the original OP, Tony Blairs Brexit poll. Have a look at the official link and facebook page. https://tinyurl.com/y8vfaz6v Seems it was hijacked by #Naughtynigel (lol) However whoever hijacked it missed their twitter poll which to be honest even I find hard to accept the results of. Nothings ever as black and white as you think though huh? Not satisfied with their £350 million lie on that silly bus or Farages abuse of a poster to whip up xenophobia, that revelation shows just how desperate Brexiters have become now. Ostrich mentality. Brexiteers desperate??? 8-) ........ Why else would they feel the need to hijack a poll to fake it into a pro-Brexit? Well it must be a fake result ;-) ........Just like the referendum eh? :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-13 5:01 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-12 8:59 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-11 4:39 PM To paraphrase Burns: O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie them To see themsels as ithers see them! It wad frae mony a blunder free them, An' foolish notion: What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e them, An' ev'n devotion! So English wasn't his first language? :D ......... He'll be another one of those dam migrants (lol) ........ I see that you're a fan of "standard" English, then, Dave. How can that be? Nah not standard.........Estuary English wiv a bit of Cockney ;-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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