antony1969 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 I think you need to credit folk with a little more intelligence and knowledge of just exactly what's going on as far as Brexit is concerned ... You seem to be saying wealthy leave voters are selfish if your theory is correct ... First it's wealthy Tories now it's wealthy leave voters , bit of a pattern here im sensing ... How many folk were conned over Osbournes project fear claims that were going to start the day after the vote ??? Supposedly he misjudged that to the tune of 100 billion pounds ... Then that's different isn't it as it was just a prediction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 What's that ... Looks like Mexico has just got a new trade deal rushed through with the EU ... Virtually tariff free and without free movement ... Well then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 The remoaners and brexiteers can make as much noise as they like but it will not alter anything. It is out of anyone's hands except the government so shout and scream all you like but nobody is listening. When there is something new and factual to listen to other than rehashed opinions and the continual twisting of statisitics to suit which ever way the wind is blowing at the time then maybe people might re-engage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-04-23 12:43 PM I dont think the majority of Brexit voters would rather face financial ruin but they are probably not aware they are about to. Well if the value of my house drops what of it? :-S .........It's paid for :D ....... Besides wont that be a good thing for the Snow Flake generation? ;-) ......... I guess it could mean Horace is no longer going up in value 8-) .......... In the short term :-> ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-04-23 2:36 PM What's that ... Looks like Mexico has just got a new trade deal rushed through with the EU ... Virtually tariff free and without free movement ... Well then How on earth did they manage that??????? 8-) ........... Oh I forgot they didn't have a load of back stabbing traitorous Remoaners involved *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 27, 2018 Author Share Posted April 27, 2018 Looks like we are one step closer to remaining in the Customs Union http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5661673/MPs-secure-symbolic-customs-union-victory-Theresa-May-warned-backlash.html No coverage in the main press though? How odd. Not. With the majority of voters including 20% of leave voters also wanting to stay in the Single Market, remind me why we are leaving again please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 Tracker - 2018-04-23 2:52 PM The remoaners and brexiteers can make as much noise as they like but it will not alter anything. It is out of anyone's hands except the government so shout and scream all you like but nobody is listening. When there is something new and factual to listen to other than rehashed opinions and the continual twisting of statisitics to suit which ever way the wind is blowing at the time then maybe people might re-engage. They listen, Rich, though I doubt they read what is written on here! :-D They listen, because there will be an election on, or before, 5 May 2022, which is only 4 years hence. Brexit, on the present timetable, is scheduled to take place on 30 March 2019, and the transition period will end on December 31 2020, with whatever has been negotiated relative to future trading arrangements coming into effect on 1 January 2021. That leaves just 16 months for whoever is then in power to begin to show that they made the right decisions, and that UK is on course for an economically rosy future - as well as trying to run an election campaign! Personally, I think that campaign is set to be one of the dirtiest in history, because if the party in power at that time can't show the fruits of their negotiations are already bringing success, they will be consigned to opposition for quite a while thereafter. They are both far more interested in the future of their parties than in the future of the country, and I can't think of a period in my lifetime when the stakes for both parties have been higher, or of a time when such political lightweights have been the contenders. Oh, they're listening, very intently, in my opinion - their political futures hang on the outcome. Personally, I should not be surprised to see one, or both, parties emerge from that contest split, which may prove one of the best things to have happened to the UK since 1945, or the reverse! It's going to get very bumpy from here in, IMO. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-04-27 9:37 AM Looks like we are one step closer to remaining in the Customs Union http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5661673/MPs-secure-symbolic-customs-union-victory-Theresa-May-warned-backlash.html No coverage in the main press though? How odd. Not. With the majority of voters including 20% of leave voters also wanting to stay in the Single Market, remind me why we are leaving again please? Based on a poll by whom?........the Guardian? *-) ............ According to the polling companies Vote Remain should have won the referendum, and Mrs May should have a whopping majority ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Hi, Theresa May re-affirmed this week that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think some high ranking MPs would like us to walk away from the table with no deal, no ongoing payments and pay nothing to the EU.in a divorce payment. The easiest way to do this is to establish a red line on some principle or other that you KNOW will not be accepted and the talks will just stop guaranteeing a no-deal position. The glaring opportunity for this is the Irish Border and the Customs Union. Two of the three propositions May has put forward have already been totally rejected and not much hope is held for the third proposal.Thus we walk away with no trade deal and no customs arrangement and can also say they are just carrying out the will of the people. The members of parliament should p**s or get off the pot and force the Cabinet to rethink on the Customs Union and a vote on the final deal,even top the point of a second referendum. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 derek pringle - 2018-04-28 9:29 AM Hi, Theresa May re-affirmed this week that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think some high ranking MPs would like us to walk away from the table with no deal, no ongoing payments and pay nothing to the EU.in a divorce payment. The easiest way to do this is to establish a red line on some principle or other that you KNOW will not be accepted and the talks will just stop guaranteeing a no-deal position. The glaring opportunity for this is the Irish Border and the Customs Union. Two of the three propositions May has put forward have already been totally rejected and not much hope is held for the third proposal.Thus we walk away with no trade deal and no customs arrangement and can also say they are just carrying out the will of the people. The members of parliament should p**s or get off the pot and force the Cabinet to rethink on the Customs Union and a vote on the final deal,even top the point of a second referendum. cheers derek Theresa May depends on deals to keep her job buying votes from the DUP with our money. Her blackmailers in the DUP are insisting on an open irish border whatever the cost to us. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 John52 - 2018-04-28 11:59 AM derek pringle - 2018-04-28 9:29 AM Hi, Theresa May re-affirmed this week that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think some high ranking MPs would like us to walk away from the table with no deal, no ongoing payments and pay nothing to the EU.in a divorce payment. The easiest way to do this is to establish a red line on some principle or other that you KNOW will not be accepted and the talks will just stop guaranteeing a no-deal position. The glaring opportunity for this is the Irish Border and the Customs Union. Two of the three propositions May has put forward have already been totally rejected and not much hope is held for the third proposal.Thus we walk away with no trade deal and no customs arrangement and can also say they are just carrying out the will of the people. The members of parliament should p**s or get off the pot and force the Cabinet to rethink on the Customs Union and a vote on the final deal,even top the point of a second referendum. cheers derek Theresa May depends on deals to keep her job buying votes from the DUP with our money. Her blackmailers in the DUP are insisting on an open irish border whatever the cost to us. >:-) What cost will that be? ;-) .......... Seeing as I don't live anywhere near the border? :-S ........ Will they start bombing us again? *-) ........... Well I've news for them :D ............. Join the queue >:-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-28 3:15 PM John52 - 2018-04-28 11:59 AM derek pringle - 2018-04-28 9:29 AM Hi, Theresa May re-affirmed this week that no deal is better than a bad deal. I think some high ranking MPs would like us to walk away from the table with no deal, no ongoing payments and pay nothing to the EU.in a divorce payment. The easiest way to do this is to establish a red line on some principle or other that you KNOW will not be accepted and the talks will just stop guaranteeing a no-deal position. The glaring opportunity for this is the Irish Border and the Customs Union. Two of the three propositions May has put forward have already been totally rejected and not much hope is held for the third proposal.Thus we walk away with no trade deal and no customs arrangement and can also say they are just carrying out the will of the people. The members of parliament should p**s or get off the pot and force the Cabinet to rethink on the Customs Union and a vote on the final deal,even top the point of a second referendum. cheers derek Theresa May depends on deals to keep her job buying votes from the DUP with our money. Her blackmailers in the DUP are insisting on an open irish border whatever the cost to us. >:-) What cost will that be? ;-) .......... Seeing as I don't live anywhere near the border? :-S ........ Will they start bombing us again? *-) ........... Well I've news for them :D ............. Join the queue >:-) ...... Cost to us - when a few £billion in bungs to the DUP to vote Tory for a start. More difficult to quantify is the concessions the Tories make to the EU to get an open Irish Border for the DUP to buy their votes for Theresa May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 John52 - 2018-04-28 3:25 PM Cost to us - when a few £billion in bungs to the DUP to vote Tory for a start. More difficult to quantify is the concessions the Tories make to the EU to get an open Irish Border for the DUP to buy their votes for Theresa May. Oh you mean those few billion being spent in the UK and not the EU B-) ......... Nice try Peter ;-) .......But no cigar (lol) ........ BTW we don't need to install a border :-S ........ Let the EU pay for it >:-) ...........and if it keeps out their travelling folk then its a win win from my point of view B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-28 3:34 PM BTW we don't need to install a border :-S ........ No border now. *-) Remind me again why you voted Brexit *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 John52 - 2018-04-28 10:03 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-28 3:34 PM BTW we don't need to install a border :-S ........ No border now. *-) Remind me again why you voted Brexit *-) Nice out of context quoting Peter ;-) ........ Nowt wrong with borders in my world.......It's lack of borders in your world that are causing all the problems is it not? :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-28 10:13 PM John52 - 2018-04-28 10:03 PM pelmetman - 2018-04-28 3:34 PM BTW we don't need to install a border :-S ........ No border now. *-) Remind me again why you voted Brexit *-) Nice out of context quoting Peter ;-) ........ Nowt wrong with borders in my world.......It's lack of borders in your world that are causing all the problems is it not? :-| ........ Err No - its the lack of border controls the DUP blackmailers in your world are insisting thats costing us dearly now. We haven't got much to bargain with, and if we have to insist on an open border in Northern Ireland to buy DUP votes for Theresa May, what is she going to have to give up to get that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-04-28 9:13 AM Barryd999 - 2018-04-27 9:37 AM Looks like we are one step closer to remaining in the Customs Union http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5661673/MPs-secure-symbolic-customs-union-victory-Theresa-May-warned-backlash.html No coverage in the main press though? How odd. Not. With the majority of voters including 20% of leave voters also wanting to stay in the Single Market, remind me why we are leaving again please? Based on a poll by whom?........the Guardian? *-) ............ According to the polling companies Vote Remain should have won the referendum, and Mrs May should have a whopping majority ;-) .......... Err no. Based on the biggest survey ever with over 200000 participants right across the UK. I watched the results come in. It was like watching the election results as hundreds of towns posted their findings. Without doubt the trend was that the majority including nationally 20% of leave voters want to stay in the Single Market. You hard Brexiteers are in a minority. If anything clarifies that some Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for that survey does. Why would any Brexiteer now decide that staying in the single market is a preferred option if they understood what Brexit is? You wont have read about it in the Brexpress Rags though. Here is a new one for you I am sure you will be delighted with though. Looks like as well as open borders between the EU and the UK post Brexit a new deal on Free movement is being set up. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-talks-latest-eu-immigration-free-movement-offer-a8326101.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 Looks like a No deal or hard Brexit just got a lot less likely. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-suffers-fresh-blow-as-lords-votes-to-give-parliament-say-on-final-deal-a3827566.html What with the recent revelation on Free movement for EU nationals and the inevitable and unavoidable membership of the Customs Union its suddenly not looking very Brexity anymore. Call it off, its pointless now. Leaving in name only may be the lesser of several evils but we may as well have a peoples vote and vote to stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-04-30 10:48 PM Looks like a No deal or hard Brexit just got a lot less likely. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-suffers-fresh-blow-as-lords-votes-to-give-parliament-say-on-final-deal-a3827566.html What with the recent revelation on Free movement for EU nationals and the inevitable and unavoidable membership of the Customs Union its suddenly not looking very Brexity anymore. Call it off, its pointless now. Leaving in name only may be the lesser of several evils but we may as well have a peoples vote and vote to stay in. 19 Tory Lords among them too. Then there is the other issue that just won't go away which Maybel keeps burying her head over......the Irish border which simply isn't going to happen, unless she wants a war on the front doorstep of Little England. Barnier was there today and Coveney gave a good interview with Channel 4 news. https://www.channel4.com/news/eus-chief-negotiator-accused-of-being-aggressive-over-irish-border-issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... For the first time ever I wont be voting Tory and will probably just spoil my voting slip on Thursday ... I still want Brexit to go through and if it means we are in some half baked neither in or out then so be it and if that damages the country i'll take much pleasure out of that ... We fully deserve that damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-05-01 6:54 AM Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... For the first time ever I wont be voting Tory and will probably just spoil my voting slip on Thursday ... I still want Brexit to go through and if it means we are in some half baked neither in or out then so be it and if that damages the country i'll take much pleasure out of that ... We fully deserve that damage It was always going to be the case with such a small majority in favour of leaving, millions not realising the consequences and only a much smaller majority wanting a hard Brexit. Its also became so apparent over the past two years that to walk away with no deal would be swapping disaster for complete catastrophe its all about damage limitation now. If we were really capable and up to leaving the EU properly which we simply are not that is what we should have done, walked away completely but we just aren't. I think its been pretty much proved as much as it can be that any kind of Brexit wlil be damaging but its just a question of how much but Ive been saying all along that a half in half out scenario will please nobody. The entire thing is floored and it would make more sense to revoke article 50 while we sill can and review it in five or ten years time. A massive amount of people are going to be pished off and feel let down whatever we do now. Worra Cluster F*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-01 8:01 AM antony1969 - 2018-05-01 6:54 AM Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... For the first time ever I wont be voting Tory and will probably just spoil my voting slip on Thursday ... I still want Brexit to go through and if it means we are in some half baked neither in or out then so be it and if that damages the country i'll take much pleasure out of that ... We fully deserve that damage It was always going to be the case with such a small majority in favour of leaving, millions not realising the consequences and only a much smaller majority wanting a hard Brexit. Its also became so apparent over the past two years that to walk away with no deal would be swapping disaster for complete catastrophe its all about damage limitation now. If we were really capable and up to leaving the EU properly which we simply are not that is what we should have done, walked away completely but we just aren't. I think its been pretty much proved as much as it can be that any kind of Brexit wlil be damaging but its just a question of how much but Ive been saying all along that a half in half out scenario will please nobody. The entire thing is floored and it would make more sense to revoke article 50 while we sill can and review it in five or ten years time. A massive amount of people are going to be pished off and feel let down whatever we do now. Worra Cluster F*** Totally wrong ... Millions new exactly what they were voting for Barry ... Your doing your high and mighty again ... Give most folk credit who voted in the referendum wether Leave or Remain that they new what they wanted from.the vote ... Your right a massive amount of folk are going to feel more than let down , I'd say most because neither side gets much but of course those who won the referendum will be more peeved and quite rightly ... A weak Government and an unelected House of Lords could well lead us into something far worse than your Leave doomsday scenarios ... Tory supporter for over 30 years me , they'll have to do something pretty special to get me back ... I'll be looking for Independents in the elections from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-05-01 9:42 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-01 8:01 AM antony1969 - 2018-05-01 6:54 AM Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... For the first time ever I wont be voting Tory and will probably just spoil my voting slip on Thursday ... I still want Brexit to go through and if it means we are in some half baked neither in or out then so be it and if that damages the country i'll take much pleasure out of that ... We fully deserve that damage It was always going to be the case with such a small majority in favour of leaving, millions not realising the consequences and only a much smaller majority wanting a hard Brexit. Its also became so apparent over the past two years that to walk away with no deal would be swapping disaster for complete catastrophe its all about damage limitation now. If we were really capable and up to leaving the EU properly which we simply are not that is what we should have done, walked away completely but we just aren't. I think its been pretty much proved as much as it can be that any kind of Brexit wlil be damaging but its just a question of how much but Ive been saying all along that a half in half out scenario will please nobody. The entire thing is floored and it would make more sense to revoke article 50 while we sill can and review it in five or ten years time. A massive amount of people are going to be pished off and feel let down whatever we do now. Worra Cluster F*** Totally wrong ... Millions new exactly what they were voting for Barry ... Your doing your high and mighty again ... Give most folk credit who voted in the referendum wether Leave or Remain that they new what they wanted from.the vote ... Your right a massive amount of folk are going to feel more than let down , I'd say most because neither side gets much but of course those who won the referendum will be more peeved and quite rightly ... A weak Government and an unelected House of Lords could well lead us into something far worse than your Leave doomsday scenarios ... Tory supporter for over 30 years me , they'll have to do something pretty special to get me back ... I'll be looking for Independents in the elections from now on I am not saying they did not know what they were voting for Antony, what I am saying is nobody really realised or understood just what the consequences would be and that is not surprising given that hardly anyone including remainers really knew what the EU was all about or just how difficult it would be. We were told how fantastic it would all be and how easy and it simply is not the case. I just sickens me what we have done to ourselves without any serious thought or planning by those that led the way. I am as disappointed for you as I am for myself to be totally honest. I just wish there was a way we could turn back the clock or at least resolve it all to everyone's satisfaction but that right now just seems way out of reach. I dunno what the answer is, I really dont. Yes I want to stay but I dont really want our country to be split either and sadly I fear the worst is yet to come as regards divisions but like you I feel so strongly about it I Cant let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-05-01 6:54 AM Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... Respecting parliamentary sovereignty was something you Brexiters kept cooing about 'protecting' and 'keeping British'. You can't keep dismissing it each time you don't get your own way over something. After all that wouldn't be democratic would it? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-05-01 9:42 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-01 8:01 AM antony1969 - 2018-05-01 6:54 AM Unfortunately it seems a bunch of unelected dinosaurs and a very weak Government aren't going to make good on what most of those who voted Leave voted for ... I have to agree it looks like their will be no winners only losers but the biggest loser is democracy ... For the first time ever I wont be voting Tory and will probably just spoil my voting slip on Thursday ... I still want Brexit to go through and if it means we are in some half baked neither in or out then so be it and if that damages the country i'll take much pleasure out of that ... We fully deserve that damage It was always going to be the case with such a small majority in favour of leaving, millions not realising the consequences and only a much smaller majority wanting a hard Brexit. Its also became so apparent over the past two years that to walk away with no deal would be swapping disaster for complete catastrophe its all about damage limitation now. If we were really capable and up to leaving the EU properly which we simply are not that is what we should have done, walked away completely but we just aren't. I think its been pretty much proved as much as it can be that any kind of Brexit wlil be damaging but its just a question of how much but Ive been saying all along that a half in half out scenario will please nobody. The entire thing is floored and it would make more sense to revoke article 50 while we sill can and review it in five or ten years time. A massive amount of people are going to be pished off and feel let down whatever we do now. Worra Cluster F*** Totally wrong ... Millions new exactly what they were voting for Barry ... So did you vote to leave the EU, the single market, and customs union? Because the latter two were never clearly explained or discussed hence the reason, in part, why Brexit has now hit the buffers. You voted to leave the European Union so i don't believe "millions knew exactly what they were voting for" at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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