Alanb Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Keithl - 2018-05-11 5:51 PM trialsrider - 2018-05-11 5:46 PM Alanb - 2018-05-11 3:48 PM Gareth, In order to convince you converter and the rest of us that his suggestion, it may be worth trying the following test. Run engine for several minutes so that both batteries are upto charging voltage, Switch OFF engine. Safely disconnect the connection from the vehicle battery to habitation electrics by removing the appropriate fuse. If there is no fuse visible, do not continue, as the removed cable could still be live from the habitation battery. There is a risk of damage, fire, and getting burnt if such a live end was allowed to touch the wehicle body. (The Sargent EC160 installation instructions clearly state that the connection to vehicle battery should be fused at 15A.) With the fuse removed, switching on the ignition should have no effect, and you may not be able to switch the EC160 panel ON for some time. Alan Hi Alan I understand the test procedure but what exactly is the hypothesis you are testing ? That as long as the voltage of the habitation battery remains above the lower threshold for the VSR (12.8 V?) the Sargent PSU will NOT switch on. Thanks Keith for replying on my behalf. We are obviously in agreement. Sorry Gareth, I have been rather busy this evening trying to identify a suitable replacement for the larger "Fir Tree Clips" that secure the wing liners of my 2006 X244 Fiat Ducato. Now that is a minefield! Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Alanb - 2018-05-11 9:45 PM Keithl - 2018-05-11 5:51 PM trialsrider - 2018-05-11 5:46 PM Alanb - 2018-05-11 3:48 PM Gareth, In order to convince you converter and the rest of us that his suggestion, it may be worth trying the following test. Run engine for several minutes so that both batteries are upto charging voltage, Switch OFF engine. Safely disconnect the connection from the vehicle battery to habitation electrics by removing the appropriate fuse. If there is no fuse visible, do not continue, as the removed cable could still be live from the habitation battery. There is a risk of damage, fire, and getting burnt if such a live end was allowed to touch the wehicle body. (The Sargent EC160 installation instructions clearly state that the connection to vehicle battery should be fused at 15A.) With the fuse removed, switching on the ignition should have no effect, and you may not be able to switch the EC160 panel ON for some time. Alan Hi Alan I understand the test procedure but what exactly is the hypothesis you are testing ? That as long as the voltage of the habitation battery remains above the lower threshold for the VSR (12.8 V?) the Sargent PSU will NOT switch on. Thanks Keith for replying on my behalf. We are obviously in agreement. Sorry Gareth, I have been rather busy this evening trying to identify a suitable replacement for the larger "Fir Tree Clips" that secure the wing liners of my 2006 X244 Fiat Ducato. Now that is a minefield! Alan Well I hope you got your van sorted. Right I did your test. Thankfully there was an inline fuse off the positive drive battery feed. Engine was ran for a few minutes then switched off. Fuse removed. Sargent did not switch on. Just for the record I used the Sargent before the test to record voltages of both batteries. Leisure battery was 13.5v (thanks to the solar) and drive was 12.2v. So bearing the above result on mind, what does this show. Keep it simple please. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 It proves that your converters proposed switch in the vehicle battery +ve connection, would not solve your problem. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Alanb - 2018-05-12 3:51 PM It proves that your converters proposed switch in the vehicle battery +ve connection, would not solve your problem. Alan Ok. I totally understand that. So my next question is whether I could do away with the split charge completely thus removing the two wires feeding the Sargent from the drive battery ? I've got a 100w solar panel on the roof and obviously hook up too . If I removed power to the Sargent from the drivebattery and relied soley on 240v and solar for input power would the Sargent remain on ? My fridge is a low drain dometic crx50 compressor fridge so I'm not concerned about the fridge flattening the battery even whilst driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 trialsrider - 2018-05-12 6:42 PM So my next question is whether I could do away with the split charge completely thus removing the two wires feeding the Sargent from the drive battery ? It depends on whether the Sargent PSU will work without 12 V to it's main inputs! Without starting the engine and making sure the VSR is disconnected, remove the fuse at your starter battery and then try turning the Sargent PSU on. If it will not come to life then it will need re-wiring with your leisure battery as its main input, if it does come to life then you may be lucky but I would still either read the manual or contact Sargent Electrical to ask if this is acceptable. Keith. PS And it sounds as though your Solar is actually compounding your current problem in that it is holding your leisure battery above the drop out voltage for the VSR hence the VSR is never switching off and the Sargent will not then switch on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Yes you can remove the Starter battery feed to the Sargent, but you will loose Alternator charging and with an absorption Fridge, lose 12v Fridge powered running from the Alternator. You are right the CRX50 is a low power consumption Fridge for a compressor unit, but still uses 36Ah a day average. A bit more if the interior of the vehicle is hot. That will be a big chunk of your Solar Power in mid summer. Between September and the end of March the fridge will probably draw more power than the solar can put back. Expect as little as 4Ah a day Solar charge in mid winter when even 3 x 100 watt panels probably won't be enough to supply half your needs? From what I can tell that power consumption is in Fridge mode only, I think even more power will be used if you operate the Freezer as well. If your lights, heating, TV, phone charging, etc draw an additional 20Ah a night you can see that you are going to struggle even with the help of Alternator charging. Depending on when/where you intend to holiday (obviously the further South you go the more Solar power you will harvest) you might need the option for the engine to top up the battery to prevent it being damaged by over discharge. Alternator charging is useful on site when the battery is low, to temporarily boost it. I think your only option is to get this install done as Sargent say it should be. If you have no faith in your converter try a good local auto Sparky. May we suggest that if you intend to use the vehicle outside the prime summer months, that you consider fitting a battery protection device that will disconnect the Fridge at about 12.1v to protect the battery from over discharge and damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Keithl - 2018-05-12 7:22 It depends on whether the Sargent PSU will work without 12 V to it's main inputs! Without starting the engine and making sure the VSR is disconnected, remove the fuse at your starter battery and then try turning the Sargent PSU on. If it will not come to life then it will need re-wiring with your leisure battery as its main input, if it does come to life then you may be lucky but I would still either read the manual or contact Sargent Electrical to ask if this is acceptable. Keith. PS And it sounds as though your Solar is actually compounding your current problem in that it is holding your leisure battery above the drop out voltage for the VSR hence the VSR is never switching off and the Sargent will not then switch on! In general I agree with Keith, but it may be necessary to pull down the battery voltage before testing, by going back to square one, and switching on the ignition plus headlights, so that the VSR switches OFF. I think it most likely that the EC160 takes its power suply from the habitation battery, so it will probably work without the vehicle battery connection, but then you are limited to sunny days and / or EHU. Not likely that Sargent will encourage this mode of operation, as the EMC function will not be supported. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Alanb - 2018-05-12 8:14 PM Keithl - 2018-05-12 7:22 It depends on whether the Sargent PSU will work without 12 V to it's main inputs! Without starting the engine and making sure the VSR is disconnected, remove the fuse at your starter battery and then try turning the Sargent PSU on. If it will not come to life then it will need re-wiring with your leisure battery as its main input, if it does come to life then you may be lucky but I would still either read the manual or contact Sargent Electrical to ask if this is acceptable. Keith. PS And it sounds as though your Solar is actually compounding your current problem in that it is holding your leisure battery above the drop out voltage for the VSR hence the VSR is never switching off and the Sargent will not then switch on! In general I agree with Keith, but it may be necessary to pull down the battery voltage before testing, by going back to square one, and switching on the ignition plus headlights, so that the VSR switches OFF. I think it most likely that the EC160 takes its power suply from the habitation battery, so it will probably work without the vehicle battery connection, but then you are limited to sunny days and / or EHU. Not likely that Sargent will encourage this mode of operation, as the EMC function will not be supported. Alan Am I right in thinking that if I pull down the battery voltage and thus switch off the vsr, then disconnect the battery feed from the drive battery to the Sargent, then the vsr will stay off regardless of what happens on the habitation side of the circuitry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 That is what I would expect, but testing will provide the proof. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A900ss Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 trialsrider - 2018-05-12 6:42 PM So my next question is whether I could do away with the split charge completely thus removing the two wires feeding the Sargent from the drive battery ? I know this is an old thread but I also have a Sargent EC160 and reading this thread might help me with my slow charging from the alternator. Does the Sargent still work if the VB positive cable is disconnected from the back of it? It will still have the LB positive cable from the leisure battery and the GND cable connected. My intention would then to fit a battery to battery charger that goes directly to the leisure battery and not via the VB input on the Sargent EC160. This would also mean I am not putting high amps from the battery to battery charger through the Sargent on the way to the leisure battery. As stated in a previous post, I am not an electrician and would pay an installer to do this work for me. I just want an understanding of what is going on to improve my learning. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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