Guest pelmetman Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 John52 - 2018-06-27 5:09 AM pelmetman - 2018-06-26 9:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-26 6:55 PM pelmetman - 2018-06-26 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-26 1:29 PM Their importance lies in the proportion of our total exporte that they produce, not how many of them there are. There is little point in talking up the value of international trade deals, and then only canvassing the opinions of those who export nothing. To get to that 95% figure for UK businesses, it must include all the kids doing paper rounds as well as all the dope pushers. You got proof of that percentage? :-D https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-businesses-export-eu/ ;-) ......... Oh and that 5% also includes businesses that import from the EU, so those that just export to the EU would be much less than 5% >:-) ............ Yes, I agree but, as I said, that 95% includes businesses of all kinds right down to one man bands. What is important is the value of those exports to the EU (as well as those to the rest of the world), about £240 million per year, and the warnings coming from the companies that make up that value. We need those exports, and should pay heed to the warnings of the big players who make up the bulk of that £240 million (and the £300 odd million that goes elsewhere). By comparison, the opinions of the non-exporters carry little weight. Lose the big exporters, and the UK economy will take a hit in terms of earnings but also generally well paid employment, and government revenues will fall correspondingly. That will knock on to affect everyone, whether or not they are engaged in exporting, whether to the EU or not. You mean those big exporters like BMW, Airbus, Toyota etc etc who are owned by Whom? (lol) .......and make up less than 5% of our businesses >:-) ......... Seeing that many of those in that 5% are the ones importing the 80 billion more a year than we export, its little wonder that they don't give a "feck" for the other 95% of British owned businesses who gain nothing but red tape and higher costs from the EU *-) .......... How does the Mad Hatter work out that BMW, Airbus, Toyota etc are importing more than they export (lol) >:-) ........... https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu "But on average, just 41% of the parts used in a car assembled in the UK are actually produced in the country." (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-27 8:59 AM pelmetman - 2018-06-26 9:01 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-26 6:55 PM pelmetman - 2018-06-26 6:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-26 1:29 PM Their importance lies in the proportion of our total exporte that they produce, not how many of them there are. There is little point in talking up the value of international trade deals, and then only canvassing the opinions of those who export nothing. To get to that 95% figure for UK businesses, it must include all the kids doing paper rounds as well as all the dope pushers. You got proof of that percentage? :-D https://fullfact.org/europe/how-many-businesses-export-eu/ ;-) ......... Oh and that 5% also includes businesses that import from the EU, so those that just export to the EU would be much less than 5% >:-) ............ Yes, I agree but, as I said, that 95% includes businesses of all kinds right down to one man bands. What is important is the value of those exports to the EU (as well as those to the rest of the world), about £240 million per year, and the warnings coming from the companies that make up that value. We need those exports, and should pay heed to the warnings of the big players who make up the bulk of that £240 million (and the £300 odd million that goes elsewhere). By comparison, the opinions of the non-exporters carry little weight. Lose the big exporters, and the UK economy will take a hit in terms of earnings but also generally well paid employment, and government revenues will fall correspondingly. That will knock on to affect everyone, whether or not they are engaged in exporting, whether to the EU or not. You mean those big exporters like BMW, Airbus, Toyota etc etc who are owned by Whom? (lol) .......and make up less than 5% of our businesses >:-) ......... Seeing that many of those in that 5% are the ones importing the 80 billion more a year than we export, its little wonder that they don't give a "feck" for the other 95% of British owned businesses who gain nothing but red tape and higher costs from the EU *-) .......... The only thing that prevented companies of those types from being British owned and based is the combined actions of various British managers, workers and governments. But fear not, there are British owned companies of that ilk in existence, and many of them too tend to import more than they export. Ask yourself why the UK is a part of the Airbus consortium, and why we would want Airbus to shift its production away from Britain? Why does BMW own Mini? Why does Toyota succeed in Britain when numerous British car manufacturers went bust trying? Where is all this red tape that prevents other, smaller, businesses, from growing? It isn't that none of them do. Isn't it because so many businesses simply aren't in the league that is ever going to become multi-nationals? I guess a local painter and decorator, or the owner of a corner shop, might become international but, on average, how many? If all those small businesses were sufficiently productive, and produced what British people want, at a price and quality that are attractive to British people, our imports would fall. It is futile blaming the "foreigner" for our own faults - we do it to ourselves, all on our own, and have long done so. Protectionism merely cements in the shortcomings that leave the protectionists vulnerable to competition from elsewhere, whether it is the next village, town, or country. Gear up, don't moan! How funny you should call us Brexiteers protectionists........ it not us Brexiteers that are trying to make life difficult for those foreign owned businesses is it? ;-) ............ It's the EU trying to make an example of us to "PROTECT" their empire *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-06-27 9:49 AM "But on average, just 41% of the parts used in a car assembled in the UK are actually produced in the country." (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ At the risk of stating the obvious, the imported parts are exported, along with British made parts, value added - as complete cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 27, 2018 Author Share Posted June 27, 2018 Interesting article in the FT today about Boris's smart career move backing brexit. ITeresa May is so weakened by her calling the election she said she wouldn't, its made Boris unsackable, because if Teresa May sacks Boris, the hard line Brexiters will rally round Boris and bring her down. The only reason she hasn't been brought down already is because her job is such a poisoned chalice with Brexit - whatever she does will upset one side of the Tory Party or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-06-27 9:55 AM.....................….How funny you should call us Brexiteers protectionists........ it not us Brexiteers that are trying to make life difficult for those foreign owned businesses is it? ;-) ............ It's the EU trying to make an example of us to "PROTECT" their empire *-) ......... But I didn't, Dave, did I? I don't know what you think the EU should do. It has evolved a set of rules that govern access to its markets. We seem to want to leave the EU, choose which ruled we'd like to comply with, disregard those that we don't like, and retain full access to the market nevertheless. So, if we swapped places with, say, Germany, and they were leaving while we remain in, you'd have no objection to Germany saying "we're leaving, and we still want access to your market as before, but we're going to reject the rules we don't like, and only accept those we like? That would be OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-27 3:21 PM So, if we swapped places with, say, Germany, and they were leaving while we remain in, you'd have no objection to Germany saying "we're leaving, and we still want access to your market as before, but we're going to reject the rules we don't like, and only accept those we like? That would be OK? Yes, of course it would be OK, we would then accept or discount what Germany wanted as long as it was to mutual national advantage and without the intervention of Barmy Barnier and his barely hidden EU agenda as opposed to individual member states wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 As I read that Rich, given your proviso, you seem to be saying no, not yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-27 6:59 PM As I read that Rich, given your proviso, you seem to be saying no, not yes. Yes Brian I am not saying no - just maybe - as long as any deal suits the UK as well as Germany (or Italy, Spain, Netherlands, France etc) and to heck with what the EU ostriches want for their own not so secret political agenda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 John52 - 2018-06-27 2:15 PM pelmetman - 2018-06-27 9:49 AM "But on average, just 41% of the parts used in a car assembled in the UK are actually produced in the country." (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ At the risk of stating the obvious, the imported parts are exported, along with British made parts, value added - as complete cars. At the risk of pointing out the obvious ;-) ........You were shot down in flames (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-27 3:21 PM pelmetman - 2018-06-27 9:55 AM.....................….How funny you should call us Brexiteers protectionists........ it not us Brexiteers that are trying to make life difficult for those foreign owned businesses is it? ;-) ............ It's the EU trying to make an example of us to "PROTECT" their empire *-) ......... But I didn't, Dave, did I? I don't know what you think the EU should do. It has evolved a set of rules that govern access to its markets. We seem to want to leave the EU, choose which ruled we'd like to comply with, disregard those that we don't like, and retain full access to the market nevertheless. So, if we swapped places with, say, Germany, and they were leaving while we remain in, you'd have no objection to Germany saying "we're leaving, and we still want access to your market as before, but we're going to reject the rules we don't like, and only accept those we like? That would be OK? You forget Brian we're not Germany *-) ......... Didn't you do history at school? 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I dunno why you Brexiteers cant just admit it to yourselves, you got it completely wrong. You called the EU's bluff, you said "They needed us more than we needed them", you said (well Foxy did) "it would be the easiest deal in history", you thought we could have our cake and eat it. We (the remainers) told you that was all tosh. Who seems to be right so far? Now your having the audacity to blame those of us who voted to remain for the fact that none of what you thought or were told would happen is happening. If the land of Unicorns is still awaiting us why are you so bothered about getting a deal with the EU anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 You remoaners are very good at projecting how bad things will be for the UK post Brexit, but do you suppose the EU will stand still in the future or that if we remain things will get better for us? All the corrupton, abuse, demands for subsidies and hand outs will continue coupled with an increasing drive toward political and economic unity and parity and that is a scenario that I would not wish for us, let alone the UK being one of the donor nations that helps to pays for it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 Tracker - 2018-06-28 11:26 AM All the corrupton, abuse, demands for subsidies and hand outs will continue . They call it the House of Lords - which alone is bigger than the whole EU Parliament for 27 countries - and don't get me started on the Royal Hangers On :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Tracker - 2018-06-28 11:26 AM You remoaners are very good at projecting how bad things will be for the UK post Brexit, but do you suppose the EU will stand still in the future or that if we remain things will get better for us? All the corrupton, abuse, demands for subsidies and hand outs will continue coupled with an increasing drive toward political and economic unity and parity and that is a scenario that I would not wish for us, let alone the UK being one of the donor nations that helps to pays for it as well. Rich. We are already half in half out with more opt outs including one for a further federalised Europe than any other nation. Right now or until the vote at least we had done alright out of the EU. To me you leave a club when it is no longer beneficial to you. The trouble is both the government and media have long used the EU as a punch bag and to blame it for all the ills and all that is wrong with the UK. Maybe one day it might not be a good fit for us and a huge majority will want to leave for legitimate reasons but now isnt that time. We have royally messed up big time as we are totally divided. Its a fight now nobody can win. It would have been better if we had waited and only called a referendum when it was clear that the EU was going in a direction that would no longer suit us and it was clear that a huge majority wanted out, then everyone would have been behind Brexit. What we have now is going to ruin our once great nation because people including the pollys refuse to accept its a failure with not enough backing or leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-06-28 9:50 AM I dunno why you Brexiteers cant just admit it to yourselves, you got it completely wrong. You called the EU's bluff, you said "They needed us more than we needed them", you said (well Foxy did) "it would be the easiest deal in history", you thought we could have our cake and eat it. We (the remainers) told you that was all tosh. Who seems to be right so far? Now your having the audacity to blame those of us who voted to remain for the fact that none of what you thought or were told would happen is happening. If the land of Unicorns is still awaiting us why are you so bothered about getting a deal with the EU anyway? The only thing Brexiteers underestimated is the scale of Remoaner UK back stabbing *-) ........ You thought that if you create such a toxic mess us Brexiteers would change our minds ;-) ......... Well there's no sign of that >:-) .......... In 273 day's we're still gonna drag your petulant whinging ar*es to the Exit :D .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-06-29 10:07 AM Barryd999 - 2018-06-28 9:50 AM I dunno why you Brexiteers cant just admit it to yourselves, you got it completely wrong. You called the EU's bluff, you said "They needed us more than we needed them", you said (well Foxy did) "it would be the easiest deal in history", you thought we could have our cake and eat it. We (the remainers) told you that was all tosh. Who seems to be right so far? Now your having the audacity to blame those of us who voted to remain for the fact that none of what you thought or were told would happen is happening. If the land of Unicorns is still awaiting us why are you so bothered about getting a deal with the EU anyway? The only thing Brexiteers underestimated is the scale of Remoaner UK back stabbing *-) ........ You thought that if you create such a toxic mess us Brexiteers would change our minds ;-) ......... Well there's no sign of that >:-) .......... In 273 day's we're still gonna drag your petulant whinging ar*es to the Exit :D .............. How do you reckon "we" have created a toxic mess? You voted us out, the government and parliament have agreed to implement that decision so your getting what you wanted. The toxic mess has come about purely because it turns out its not as straight forward as "the easiest deal in history" that you and the Brexit leave mob claimed it would be. It also turns out that we do need access to the Single Market, Customs Union and probably the other 40 agencies that we are currently members of plus we have a massive problem with the Irish Border. We knew all about that which is why we voted to remain. People have changed their minds as a result, well at least some that are aware of what is going on have which isnt much but its a swing no matter which way you try and dress it up. A public vote would re-engage the rest of the populous who have lost interest. Then I think you would see a much larger swing. Ive noticed this trend recently where Brexiteers and even the Pollys are preparing themselves to deflect the blame of a Brexit failure onto those that voted remain. Support Brexit if you like, that is your democratic right but when it all goes tits up dont start trying to blame those of us who never wanted a referendum in the first place and voted remain. The buck stops with those that took us here I am afraid. How many times was it said two years ago that it wasnt enough of a majority to make it work? Too many if you care to look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-06-27 10:12 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-27 3:21 PM pelmetman - 2018-06-27 9:55 AM.....................….How funny you should call us Brexiteers protectionists........ it not us Brexiteers that are trying to make life difficult for those foreign owned businesses is it? ;-) ............ It's the EU trying to make an example of us to "PROTECT" their empire *-) ......... But I didn't, Dave, did I? I don't know what you think the EU should do. It has evolved a set of rules that govern access to its markets. We seem to want to leave the EU, choose which ruled we'd like to comply with, disregard those that we don't like, and retain full access to the market nevertheless. So, if we swapped places with, say, Germany, and they were leaving while we remain in, you'd have no objection to Germany saying "we're leaving, and we still want access to your market as before, but we're going to reject the rules we don't like, and only accept those we like? That would be OK? You forget Brian we're not Germany *-) ......... Didn't you do history at school? 8-) .......... Eh? Which bit of history would that be? I would have thought mistaking the UK for Germany would relate to geography, not history, but I still don't see the relevance of either to whether or not you'd be happy if Germany was trying to leave the EU on the same one sided terms we are seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-06-28 12:02 PM Tracker - 2018-06-28 11:26 AM You remoaners are very good at projecting how bad things will be for the UK post Brexit, but do you suppose the EU will stand still in the future or that if we remain things will get better for us? All the corrupton, abuse, demands for subsidies and hand outs will continue coupled with an increasing drive toward political and economic unity and parity and that is a scenario that I would not wish for us, let alone the UK being one of the donor nations that helps to pays for it as well. Rich. We are already half in half out with more opt outs including one for a further federalised Europe than any other nation. Right now or until the vote at least we had done alright out of the EU. To me you leave a club when it is no longer beneficial to you. The trouble is both the government and media have long used the EU as a punch bag and to blame it for all the ills and all that is wrong with the UK. Maybe one day it might not be a good fit for us and a huge majority will want to leave for legitimate reasons but now isnt that time. We have royally messed up big time as we are totally divided. Its a fight now nobody can win. It would have been better if we had waited and only called a referendum when it was clear that the EU was going in a direction that would no longer suit us and it was clear that a huge majority wanted out, then everyone would have been behind Brexit. What we have now is going to ruin our once great nation because people including the pollys refuse to accept its a failure with not enough backing or leverage. Precisely. +1 :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-06-29 10:54 AM pelmetman - 2018-06-29 10:07 AM Barryd999 - 2018-06-28 9:50 AM I dunno why you Brexiteers cant just admit it to yourselves, you got it completely wrong. You called the EU's bluff, you said "They needed us more than we needed them", you said (well Foxy did) "it would be the easiest deal in history", you thought we could have our cake and eat it. We (the remainers) told you that was all tosh. Who seems to be right so far? Now your having the audacity to blame those of us who voted to remain for the fact that none of what you thought or were told would happen is happening. If the land of Unicorns is still awaiting us why are you so bothered about getting a deal with the EU anyway? The only thing Brexiteers underestimated is the scale of Remoaner UK back stabbing *-) ........ You thought that if you create such a toxic mess us Brexiteers would change our minds ;-) ......... Well there's no sign of that >:-) .......... In 273 day's we're still gonna drag your petulant whinging ar*es to the Exit :D .............. How do you reckon "we" have created a toxic mess? You voted us out, the government and parliament have agreed to implement that decision so your getting what you wanted. The toxic mess has come about purely because it turns out its not as straight forward as "the easiest deal in history" that you and the Brexit leave mob claimed it would be. It also turns out that we do need access to the Single Market, Customs Union and probably the other 40 agencies that we are currently members of plus we have a massive problem with the Irish Border. We knew all about that which is why we voted to remain...……………………………….. Yep, that seems about right to me. First blame the EU for everything that goes wrong for the UK, then ridicule it on the basis of fictional "silly EU stories" like straight bananas, then beat yourselves into a lather over ridiculous claims that the whole of Turkey is about to migrate to the UK, add a pinch of USE hysteria - as though all the EU states want to emasculate themselves just to get at the UK - and then, after you've voted to leave, and it turns out to be as complex, costly, and difficult as remainers said it would be, blame them for mentioning the problems, simply because Brexiters lacked the foresight to see the problems. How I would love a world where it was always someone else who caused my problems, but never me! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-29 12:53 PM Yep, that seems about right to me. First blame the EU for everything that goes wrong for the UK, then ridicule it on the basis of fictional "silly EU stories" like straight bananas, then beat yourselves into a lather over ridiculous claims that the whole of Turkey is about to migrate to the UK, add a pinch of USE hysteria - as though all the EU states want to emasculate themselves just to get at the UK - and then, after you've voted to leave, and it turns out to be as complex, costly, and difficult as remainers said it would be, blame them for mentioning the problems, simply because Brexiters lacked the foresight to see the problems. How I would love a world where it was always someone else who caused my problems, but never me! :-D Pretty much all of the UK problems can be traced back to an endless succession of inept and self serving governments ever since at least 1945. If just one of these governments had taken a long term - over four years that is - view to rebuild the UK into a sound and equitable society rather than greedy grab all while you can society and if the 'whats in it for me NOW' electorate had voted for a future and not a quick quid we would not be in the economic deep doo dah that we are now. Successive and systemic government mis management of the economy, North Sea Oil income, The EU, the NHS, social care, education, numerous wars where should have kept our noses of it, and just about everything else, plus years of disruptive Union power has turned us from a nation of inovative manufacturers and exporters into a nation of benefit claimants and importers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 Tracker - 2018-06-29 5:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-06-29 12:53 PM Yep, that seems about right to me. First blame the EU for everything that goes wrong for the UK, then ridicule it on the basis of fictional "silly EU stories" like straight bananas, then beat yourselves into a lather over ridiculous claims that the whole of Turkey is about to migrate to the UK, add a pinch of USE hysteria - as though all the EU states want to emasculate themselves just to get at the UK - and then, after you've voted to leave, and it turns out to be as complex, costly, and difficult as remainers said it would be, blame them for mentioning the problems, simply because Brexiters lacked the foresight to see the problems. How I would love a world where it was always someone else who caused my problems, but never me! :-D Pretty much all of the UK problems can be traced back to an endless succession of inept and self serving governments ever since at least 1945. If just one of these governments had taken a long term - over four years that is - view to rebuild the UK into a sound and equitable society rather than greedy grab all while you can society and if the 'whats in it for me NOW' electorate had voted for a future and not a quick quid we would not be in the economic deep doo dah that we are now. Successive and systemic government mis management of the economy, North Sea Oil income, The EU, the NHS, social care, education, numerous wars where should have kept our noses of it, and just about everything else, plus years of disruptive Union power has turned us from a nation of inovative manufacturers and exporters into a nation of benefit claimants and importers. A little harsh, Rich, but I can't but agree. :-) All I would add is the pointless, costly, and ultimately destructive political ping-pong between conservative and labour over that period of time, with policies being reversed because they were "their" policies and not "our" policies. That is one reason why I just wish the two main parties would put themselves out of their misery and accept that they are both, in reality, two parties and not one, and split. Then we'd have at least six parties, meaning all governments would be coalitions, so would compromise to form governments, and we might then get rid of the left-right dogma and begin to get long term policies that favour the country as a whole, as opposed to the party with the most votes at that moment in time. Fat chance, I think, even now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 Sadly its even worse than that with policy reversals in the same party. They can't decide on whether prisons are for punishment or rehabilitation, and swing back and forth between the 2 getting the worst of both worlds. Of course the biggest factor is massive inequality, wherever you have that you have a high crime rate, but the Government has its fingers in its ears to that one because it doesn't suit their political dogma :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-06-29 10:54 AM Ive noticed this trend recently where Brexiteers and even the Pollys are preparing themselves to deflect the blame of a Brexit failure onto those that voted remain. Support Brexit if you like, that is your democratic right but when it all goes tits up dont start trying to blame those of us who never wanted a referendum in the first place and voted remain. The buck stops with those that took us here I am afraid. How many times was it said two years ago that it wasnt enough of a majority to make it work? Too many if you care to look back. Au contraire ;-) ...........The trend is deffo on the Remoaners foot :D ........... Now that you've realised all your whinging will achieve is nowt but a big bill which you'll have to help pay >:-) .......... You maybe lucky though.......as we could still just crash out without any deal B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Hi, We vote for our MPs, who in turn vote for the Party Leader (not sure about Labour) who chooses his Foriegn Secretary, who does all the negotiating with all the other Foreign Secretaries in the world. That is effectively "ONE NATION, ONE VOTE" My mate reckons the EU is the most democratic system in the world ... everybody gets one vote. But their votes are not equal. The Big Six ... Germany, France, UK, Poland, Italy and Spain have about a couple of hundred MEPs (more than the rest of the other 22 member states put together). Malta has 5 MEPs ... how much influence can they have? What benefit can they derive from being members of the EU ... unless they can trade their votes, in return for bigger states returning the favour. Just because a State is small does not make it unimportant to it's citizens. But obviously the Big Six reckon they are important, just because they are big, and have clout. At the other end of the scale ... what's the economic term for "cannon fodder"? Question ... how did our politicians get this great nation into a position that we cannot (some say) get out of. Does/did Parliament have the authority to put us in that position? Question ... if the EU are so reluctant for us to leave, why haven't they offered us some incentive to stay? They demand that we tell them what we want ... just so that they can smile when they tell us we can't have it. But when they tell us what they want, they throw a hissy fit even if we let them have it. One soon learns not to ask for anything, if you know that it will result in a clip round the ear. Three twos is worth more than a pair of aces. I'm guessing that there have been occasions when a pair of twos have taken the kitty. The Negotiators are playing poker, knowing some of the cards each is holding ... but only a guestimate of how much is in the kitty. But the player with the weakest hand can take the pot, by raising the stakes higher than the other player can afford to match. The UK can throw NO DEAL into the kitty. Can the EU risk having to match that? They need us more than we need them? If the UK starts to put a tarrif on EU goods, they will sell less in the UK, but the demand will remain, leaving the opportunity for UK entreprenuers to fill it. Vice Versa will apply. But the UK will be able to seek new markets, while the EU will have to continue with one hand tied behind their back. The EU do not like the British, although they may like us individually. We are political trouble makers ... but they will accept that ... while we keep giving them our money. They are puzzled by our reluctance to give them more. In order to justify asking us for more, they have to keep introducing more laws for us to obey ... and stay in charge of administering those laws. I recently mentioned a hospital being delayed due to an EU builder not sticking to specification. Will that be settled in a UK court ... or in the EU? We all have a vote to elect our MPs. Business does not have a vote. Who has the most clout? Bigger businesses have more clout? ... like Carrilion, and the banks, and the railway franchises, etc? 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-06-29 12:53 PM Barryd999 - 2018-06-29 10:54 AM pelmetman - 2018-06-29 10:07 AM Barryd999 - 2018-06-28 9:50 AM I dunno why you Brexiteers cant just admit it to yourselves, you got it completely wrong. You called the EU's bluff, you said "They needed us more than we needed them", you said (well Foxy did) "it would be the easiest deal in history", you thought we could have our cake and eat it. We (the remainers) told you that was all tosh. Who seems to be right so far? Now your having the audacity to blame those of us who voted to remain for the fact that none of what you thought or were told would happen is happening. If the land of Unicorns is still awaiting us why are you so bothered about getting a deal with the EU anyway? The only thing Brexiteers underestimated is the scale of Remoaner UK back stabbing *-) ........ You thought that if you create such a toxic mess us Brexiteers would change our minds ;-) ......... Well there's no sign of that >:-) .......... In 273 day's we're still gonna drag your petulant whinging ar*es to the Exit :D .............. How do you reckon "we" have created a toxic mess? You voted us out, the government and parliament have agreed to implement that decision so your getting what you wanted. The toxic mess has come about purely because it turns out its not as straight forward as "the easiest deal in history" that you and the Brexit leave mob claimed it would be. It also turns out that we do need access to the Single Market, Customs Union and probably the other 40 agencies that we are currently members of plus we have a massive problem with the Irish Border. We knew all about that which is why we voted to remain...……………………………….. Yep, that seems about right to me. First blame the EU for everything that goes wrong for the UK, then ridicule it on the basis of fictional "silly EU stories" like straight bananas, then beat yourselves into a lather over ridiculous claims that the whole of Turkey is about to migrate to the UK, add a pinch of USE hysteria - as though all the EU states want to emasculate themselves just to get at the UK - and then, after you've voted to leave, and it turns out to be as complex, costly, and difficult as remainers said it would be, blame them for mentioning the problems, simply because Brexiters lacked the foresight to see the problems. How I would love a world where it was always someone else who caused my problems, but never me! :-D So you Remoaners haven't been stabbing Mrs May in the back at every opportunity? *-) .......... BTW its curious that you Remoaners never talk about the cost of staying in the EU? ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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