Guest pelmetman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-04 9:46 PM No Dave, its absolutely spiffing up north. Well at least this part of ooop North. Its the rest of the country in the more populated areas that will be the first to become the Mad Max Dystopian landscape that David Davis mentioned when nobody was even thinking it. I doubt much will change here when Brexit starts destroying the country and the peasants start revolting. When the new immigrants come in from Asia and Africa to replace the Romanians, Poles and Bulgarians as they leave and rejoin their new booming economies they wont be coming here, they will be coming to a hospital, farm, care home or factory near you. (lol) Just think how ironic it would be though that ten years from now when there is mass unemployment here and Europe is booming that our jobless have to go off to Romania or Poland seeking work. I wonder how welcome they will be. Oh I forgot, no freedom of movement, we will be stuck with them. When, If, Maybe, Perhaps......By eck you're desperate "OLD" Remoaner aren't you Barry? (lol) ......... I'm 60 and you're a whippersnapper at wot?.......almost 50?.......and your scared of leaving the EU? *-) ......... Damn you must of led a sheltered life (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I'm not scared of leaving the EU Dave but in my 52 years (Thanks for thinking I Was younger) I reckon I've got pretty good and realising what is a good or bad deal / idea or when something is a really REALLY bad move. Im not risk averse. I left a really good job on probably three times the national wage with a bottomless expense account, private health care, pension etc to start my own company in 2001 so its not like I haven't taken a few risks or like to play it safe. Christ. You know me pretty well. When has anything Ive ever done been "safe" FFS! I planned though, I prepared, I had a ready made list of clients to take on, I kept on superb terms with my old Employer, in fact I became their longest running supplier after I left. I was still sh1tting myself though but I made the leap because I was ready, hungry for it and I was prepared and had a proper plan. It worked. I matched my old salary on year one and doubled it in year two. Does any of that sound like Brexit to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-05 12:08 AM I'm not scared of leaving the EU Dave but in my 52 years (Thanks for thinking I Was younger) I reckon I've got pretty good and realising what is a good or bad deal / idea or when something is a really REALLY bad move. Im not risk averse. I left a really good job on probably three times the national wage with a bottomless expense account, private health care, pension etc to start my own company in 2001 so its not like I haven't taken a few risks or like to play it safe. Christ. You know me pretty well. When has anything Ive ever done been "safe" FFS! I planned though, I prepared, I had a ready made list of clients to take on, I kept on superb terms with my old Employer, in fact I became their longest running supplier after I left. I was still sh1tting myself though but I made the leap because I was ready, hungry for it and I was prepared and had a proper plan. It worked. I matched my old salary on year one and doubled it in year two. Does any of that sound like Brexit to you? I'd call it a low level calculated risk ... You kept on "superb terms" with your old employer and could if it went t8ts up have returned and prior to leaving you'd obviously sounded them out about being a supplier ... Presume your missus was working and you hadn't taken in the refugee children at that time so had no dependants so hardly the biggest gamble/risk of all time ... Real risks are having to sell the family silver to get going and still having children to feed and clothe on a gamble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-05 6:10 AM Barryd999 - 2018-07-05 12:08 AM I'm not scared of leaving the EU Dave but in my 52 years (Thanks for thinking I Was younger) I reckon I've got pretty good and realising what is a good or bad deal / idea or when something is a really REALLY bad move. Im not risk averse. I left a really good job on probably three times the national wage with a bottomless expense account, private health care, pension etc to start my own company in 2001 so its not like I haven't taken a few risks or like to play it safe. Christ. You know me pretty well. When has anything Ive ever done been "safe" FFS! I planned though, I prepared, I had a ready made list of clients to take on, I kept on superb terms with my old Employer, in fact I became their longest running supplier after I left. I was still sh1tting myself though but I made the leap because I was ready, hungry for it and I was prepared and had a proper plan. It worked. I matched my old salary on year one and doubled it in year two. Does any of that sound like Brexit to you? I'd call it a low level calculated risk ... You kept on "superb terms" with your old employer and could if it went t8ts up have returned and prior to leaving you'd obviously sounded them out about being a supplier ... Presume your missus was working and you hadn't taken in the refugee children at that time so had no dependants so hardly the biggest gamble/risk of all time ... Real risks are having to sell the family silver to get going and still having children to feed and clothe on a gamble I dunno if i could have returned and if I had it would have meant relocating permanently to London without a shadow of doubt. I still had a Mortgage, I had only just bought this place and I think I only had about six grand in the bank plus whatever Mrs D had squirrelled away! Mrs was working but I took another risk two years later when she was unhappy in her job and I told her to tell em to feck off, walk out and become a lady of leisure. I wasnt ready for that risk but i took it anyway. Ok I hadnt put the house up or pawned the family silver but it was still a risk all the same, a risk that many would not take and it was planned and planned well. Could have still all gone tits up of course but the point is you wait until everything is right or as good as it could be to make the leap and you ensure you have as many ducks in a row as possible before you leap. I dunno about you but none of this has happened with Brexit. They are just making it up as they go along. We dont even know what we want, two years on! You have to agree that is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 I know what I wanted 2 years ago and so do many others who voted to leave but because of a weak Theresa , The House of Lords etc we haven't got it yet ! ... I'm not belittling your risk by the way only trying to put it in perspective ... Your missus jacked in work 2 years after you went self employed but by your own admission you had even before that doubled your income so again not really a biggie but yes still a risk of sorts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-05 9:09 AM I know what I wanted 2 years ago and so do many others who voted to leave but because of a weak Theresa , The House of Lords etc we haven't got it yet ! ...……………... But what, apart from not being in the EU, did you want, Antony? The outcome of the referendum was that the UK should, by a relatively slender majority, leave the EU. There was no plan, or scope, for people to vote on what we should do next! Theresa May's problem is that having become PM she called an election that showed a much reduced appetite for a Tory government, and has had to come to a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP to construct a tenuous and shabby majority. I don't know whether her lost majority was a public vote of no confidence in her, her party, or the way her party handled the Brexit referendum, but it certainly doesn't represent a ringing vote of public confidence on those issues! Her problem is further exacerbated by a party that is split from top to bottom on Brexit, and a cabinet that reflects that split. Thus, no matter how many times party or cabinet are laid end to end, they cannot arrive at a conclusion as to what they want and, consequently, even two years on, are a very long way from being able to arrive at a conclusion that the EU would be likely to accept. In the meantime our national institutions are crumbling, and our international reputation is being eroded. It is not her weakness, or the alternative voice of the house of lords that is creating those difficulties, it is the hand that her misjudged election, and through that the British public, decided she should be given. In short, it was the workings of British democracy, not some alien plot. I don't like it any more than you do, but it is where a split party, who only selected Theresa May as its leader as the least worst option, has placed itself, and through that incompetence, placed the UK. That has to be accepted. We are where we are for no better reason than the continuing bunglings of the Conservative party. They are not fit to govern, and worse, the Labour party is, if it is actually possible, even less fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-05 9:09 AM I know what I wanted 2 years ago and so do many others who voted to leave but because of a weak Theresa , The House of Lords etc we haven't got it yet ! ... I'm not belittling your risk by the way only trying to put it in perspective ... Your missus jacked in work 2 years after you went self employed but by your own admission you had even before that doubled your income so again not really a biggie but yes still a risk of sorts You know what you wanted and so does Dave. That much is clear. The trouble is nobody really knows what the other 17 million want or what their version of Brexit looks like. The cabinet and MP's dont even know what they want or if they do they all want different things. Back in 2016 Farage and other vote leave bigwigs were all saying we could be like Norway which is in the Single Market and has free movement. Now they are dead against it but how many of that 17 million voted thinking we could have a Norway option. The Sun and other Pro Brexit rags even raved about us being able to stay in the Single Market and leave the EU. Have our cake and eat it! How many bought all that when they ticked the vote leave box? So this is why Brexit in its current guise is doomed because nobody knows what type of Brexit we voted for or what the majority wants and as a result the people who are supposed to be delivering it all are just scrapping amongst themselves when two years ago we should have had a clear direction of where we were going and what we wanted. You might say "well I voted out, out of everything" a hard Brexit if you like and really that is the only true Brexit. Walk away, no deal, no conditions, no paying in, no single market or customs union. Knowing what we know now though how many really want that? The only way we would find out would be if there was another vote but if the first one was too complex for people to grasp imagine what a vote on the type of Brexit or any Brexit would be like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-05 9:55 AM.............................The only way we would find out would be if there was another vote but if the first one was too complex for people to grasp imagine what a vote on the type of Brexit or any Brexit would be like. Especially if either of the two main parties were entrusted with running the campaign! It should be perfectly possible to take what is on offer (once that is clarified! :-)) and compare that, item by item, against what we now have, with costings presented by a panel of economists (selected to reflect the spread of views) whose remit should be to arrive at a clear, collective, view. Where there is uncertainty the figures should be presented to reflect that, accompanied by the settled probabilities for the range. Fan charts do this very well. So, you get the pros and cons for each heading, with costed forecast outcomes giving the most probable result, plus the likely extremes and their respective probabilities. This stuff is every day bread and butter for economists, and presenting it in readily digestible formats in the form of charts is quite straightforward. On that basis, it would be reasonable to return the decision to the population to give their final approval on the outcome of the negotiations. It would take some time for the fog to dispel, and there would have to be strict controls over the claims and counter claims of the two factions, with all being peer reviewed, and all media being required to publish dissenting views where their assertions were challenged. It can be done. Given that kind of exercise in democracy, how could the EU possibly refuse to await the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-07-05 9:45 AM antony1969 - 2018-07-05 9:09 AM I know what I wanted 2 years ago and so do many others who voted to leave but because of a weak Theresa , The House of Lords etc we haven't got it yet ! ...……………... But what, apart from not being in the EU, did you want, Antony? The outcome of the referendum was that the UK should, by a relatively slender majority, leave the EU. There was no plan, or scope, for people to vote on what we should do next! Theresa May's problem is that having become PM she called an election that showed a much reduced appetite for a Tory government, and has had to come to a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP to construct a tenuous and shabby majority. I don't know whether her lost majority was a public vote of no confidence in her, her party, or the way her party handled the Brexit referendum, but it certainly doesn't represent a ringing vote of public confidence on those issues! Her problem is further exacerbated by a party that is split from top to bottom on Brexit, and a cabinet that reflects that split. Thus, no matter how many times party or cabinet are laid end to end, they cannot arrive at a conclusion as to what they want and, consequently, even two years on, are a very long way from being able to arrive at a conclusion that the EU would be likely to accept. In the meantime our national institutions are crumbling, and our international reputation is being eroded. It is not her weakness, or the alternative voice of the house of lords that is creating those difficulties, it is the hand that her misjudged election, and through that the British public, decided she should be given. In short, it was the workings of British democracy, not some alien plot. I don't like it any more than you do, but it is where a split party, who only selected Theresa May as its leader as the least worst option, has placed itself, and through that incompetence, placed the UK. That has to be accepted. We are where we are for no better reason than the continuing bunglings of the Conservative party. They are not fit to govern, and worse, the Labour party is, if it is actually possible, even less fit. I thought it was reasonably clear on many areas ... Take back control of our laws , tighter control over who we let into the country , trade agreements with a wider world etc etc ... Thats what I thought I was voting for ... If it doesnt turn out that way then thats a chance I took I suppose as it would be with any party I voted in to govern the country but obviously I would be disappointed ... I truly believe the EU as it is now is finished and that feeling has grown stronger over the 2 years since we voted out with what is happening in many EU countries ... Do remember the EEC/EU has changed dramatically and beyond all recognition since 73 , what we voted into then isnt what we have now and the monster it has become so if we changed and adapted to life in the EU and in your opinion very much thrived why cant we change and adapt to a global market as team UK and thrive once we leave ... I agree with your Labour Party remark but disagree with your Conservative view as I believe with change we have more than enough Tories who would give the likes of me the Brexit I want ... I dont care anyway im moving to france Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Mmmm ... Tell me again who's the powerhouse of Europe and the country every EU member should look up to ... https://www.afr.com/opinion/columnists/how-germanys-economy-could-sink-angela-merkel-20180704-h128ts ... What a mess Angela ... Good job Marks so upbeat about the UK economy ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44721670 ... Happy Days xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-07-05 12:25 PM Mmmm ... Tell me again who's the powerhouse of Europe and the country every EU member should look up to ... https://www.afr.com/opinion/columnists/how-germanys-economy-could-sink-angela-merkel-20180704-h128ts ... What a mess Angela ... Good job Marks so upbeat about the UK economy ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44721670 ... Happy Days xx Yet your previously "sainted" (halo now been binned) Treezer has flown off to try and beg Merkels support for customs plan. Happy days indeed! (lol)(lol) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-customs-plan-angela-merkel-eu-talks-deal-uk-smuggling-germany-meeting-a8432251.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-07-05 1:45 PM antony1969 - 2018-07-05 12:25 PM Mmmm ... Tell me again who's the powerhouse of Europe and the country every EU member should look up to ... https://www.afr.com/opinion/columnists/how-germanys-economy-could-sink-angela-merkel-20180704-h128ts ... What a mess Angela ... Good job Marks so upbeat about the UK economy ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44721670 ... Happy Days xx Yet your previously "sainted" (halo now been binned) Treezer has flown off to try and beg Merkels support for customs plan. Happy days indeed! (lol)(lol) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-customs-plan-angela-merkel-eu-talks-deal-uk-smuggling-germany-meeting-a8432251.html Your right I dont believe Theresa is anywhere near the person I once thought ... Mind she was a remainer so prolly explains a lot ... As for begging Merkel youve gotta be joking ... Your Mrs Merkel needs all the friends she can muster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-07-05 12:08 AM I'm not scared of leaving the EU Dave but in my 52 years (Thanks for thinking I Was younger) I reckon I've got pretty good and realising what is a good or bad deal / idea or when something is a really REALLY bad move. Im not risk averse. I left a really good job on probably three times the national wage with a bottomless expense account, private health care, pension etc to start my own company in 2001 so its not like I haven't taken a few risks or like to play it safe. Christ. You know me pretty well. When has anything Ive ever done been "safe" FFS! I planned though, I prepared, I had a ready made list of clients to take on, I kept on superb terms with my old Employer, in fact I became their longest running supplier after I left. I was still sh1tting myself though but I made the leap because I was ready, hungry for it and I was prepared and had a proper plan. It worked. I matched my old salary on year one and doubled it in year two. Does any of that sound like Brexit to you? Yep......Cause we'll be dumping the expensive EU and embracing the WORLD B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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