Bulletguy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. Yeah like those very nasty antisemites in the Labour party >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 colin - 2018-08-16 10:25 AM pelmetman - 2018-08-16 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 9:10 AM The EU workers I am sure will still be able to work here but nobody considered the fact that they might choose not to. Nobody has kicked anyone out yet but their numbers are dwindling and food is already rotting in the fields and we cant get nursing staff. Eastern European economies are starting to boom while ours falters. There was even an advert recently in the news from Bulgaria I think advertising for British workers! Which kinda proves that depending on foreign labour is a mistake ;-) ............As is paying Brits benefits so they can sit on their backsides *-) ............ I've posted this before, not sure if it was this forum, UK firms have become dependant on cheap EU labour, this is not a good thing. A few weeks back a local producer was on the radio complaining about struggling to get EU labour in, it was complete bull, he has forced out UK workers so he can have cheap EU workers that he can lord it over them on zero hour contracts. We hear of UK output per worker being low, well if you want to see an example look at car washing, many auto car washes stand empty whilst manual car washes full of slaves flourish, this is happening across many industries where companies would rather employ cheap labour(or slaves) than invest in automation. As for nursing staff, the NHS employs nurses from across the world, it complains about shortages in nurses and yet we have put in place measures which ensure there will be less nurses trained, we have relied on striping other countries of their trained nurses to feed our need. I Can see some logic in what you saying there. However there are something like 7-8 million Immigrants (none EU and EU) in this country most of which are in work but there are only 1.38 million unemployed. You can probably assume a good percentage of those unemployed are unemployable for one reason or another but even if every one of them was fit, healthy and capable of work we would still depend heavily on foreign labour because if all the millions of immigrants left there would never be enough Brits to fill their roles whether they were capable or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 colin - 2018-08-16 10:25 AM pelmetman - 2018-08-16 9:55 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 9:10 AM The EU workers I am sure will still be able to work here but nobody considered the fact that they might choose not to. Nobody has kicked anyone out yet but their numbers are dwindling and food is already rotting in the fields and we cant get nursing staff. Eastern European economies are starting to boom while ours falters. There was even an advert recently in the news from Bulgaria I think advertising for British workers! Which kinda proves that depending on foreign labour is a mistake ;-) ............As is paying Brits benefits so they can sit on their backsides *-) ............ I've posted this before, not sure if it was this forum, UK firms have become dependant on cheap EU labour, this is not a good thing. A few weeks back a local producer was on the radio complaining about struggling to get EU labour in, it was complete bull, he has forced out UK workers so he can have cheap EU workers that he can lord it over them on zero hour contracts. We hear of UK output per worker being low, well if you want to see an example look at car washing, many auto car washes stand empty whilst manual car washes full of slaves flourish, this is happening across many industries where companies would rather employ cheap labour(or slaves) than invest in automation. As for nursing staff, the NHS employs nurses from across the world, it complains about shortages in nurses and yet we have put in place measures which ensure there will be less nurses trained, we have relied on striping other countries of their trained nurses to feed our need. I Can see some logic in what your saying there. However there are something like 7-8 million Immigrants (none EU and EU) in this country most of which are in work but there are only 1.38 million unemployed. You can probably assume a good percentage of those unemployed are unemployable for one reason or another but even if every one of them was fit, healthy and capable of work we would still depend heavily on foreign labour because if all the millions of immigrants left there would never be enough Brits to fill their roles whether they were capable or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 I'm not against all immigration, but I note that the numbers coming in match the shortfall in housing. Then you have to ask, is this the only way the UK economy can survive by continually increasing the population? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. "Most have left" ... Rubbish ... Last 3 delivery drivers to me have been east European ... We broke down guy who came to get us was Italian ... Company that came to take us home on transporter the driver was Hungarian ... etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 9:10 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Most dont have to flee anywhere , those that do surely would prefer another Muslim country rather than trawling through Europe to get here ... Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? I agree with most of what your saying Antony. Only 10% of Refugees from war zones in the middle east make it to Europe though and generally they are pretty clever resourceful people but they are mixed in with chancers and it seems a criminal element mainly from African countries and sadly the odd potential terrorist. I dont want people like that any more than you do.but I dont want families, children or genuine refugees wandering around Europe homeless and desperate either. We cant let them all in but we cant block them all out either. Its an impossible situation. You could be like Trump and just blanket ban them all or stick a few kiddies in cages, separated from their families but there would be international outcry and how long before that type of policy leads to some kind of mass tragedy in the Mediterranean? The EU workers I am sure will still be able to work here but nobody considered the fact that they might choose not to. Nobody has kicked anyone out yet but their numbers are dwindling and food is already rotting in the fields and we cant get nursing staff. Eastern European economies are starting to boom while ours falters. There was even an advert recently in the news from Bulgaria I think advertising for British workers! Camps are available Barry and the tragedies in the Med mainly involve chancers and wet behind the ears charities that believe they are helping and of course your heroes mad invitation ... Since June 2017 employment for British nationals is way up ... I wanted Brexit to be a kick up the sr$e for many things including our immigration policy , work shy Brits and our ridiculous overseas aid ... I still hope all 3 of those will be looked at once Brexit is done ... Personally I've said many times I don't want any hard luck stories here as we do more than enough financially helping and I've also said many times you want the hard luck stories and have room for them so do the decent thing instead of letting towns like mine take em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:09 PM Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. "Most have left" ... Rubbish ... Last 3 delivery drivers to me have been east European ... We broke down guy who came to get us was Italian ... Company that came to take us home on transporter the driver was Hungarian ... etc etc Unfortunately Bullet is right and it makes me very sad and ashamed to be English since I have never experienced any such hostility in their countries :$ PS: and 88,000 less EU workers is from the Government's own figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 John52 - 2018-08-16 2:20 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:09 PM Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. "Most have left" ... Rubbish ... Last 3 delivery drivers to me have been east European ... We broke down guy who came to get us was Italian ... Company that came to take us home on transporter the driver was Hungarian ... etc etc Unfortunately Bullet is right and it makes me very sad and ashamed to be English since I have never experienced any such hostility in their countries :$ PS: and 88,000 less EU workers is from the Government's own figures. Is 88000 less EU workers "Most" as wildly claimed by a certain princess??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:15 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 9:10 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Most dont have to flee anywhere , those that do surely would prefer another Muslim country rather than trawling through Europe to get here ... Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? I agree with most of what your saying Antony. Only 10% of Refugees from war zones in the middle east make it to Europe though and generally they are pretty clever resourceful people but they are mixed in with chancers and it seems a criminal element mainly from African countries and sadly the odd potential terrorist. I dont want people like that any more than you do.but I dont want families, children or genuine refugees wandering around Europe homeless and desperate either. We cant let them all in but we cant block them all out either. Its an impossible situation. You could be like Trump and just blanket ban them all or stick a few kiddies in cages, separated from their families but there would be international outcry and how long before that type of policy leads to some kind of mass tragedy in the Mediterranean? The EU workers I am sure will still be able to work here but nobody considered the fact that they might choose not to. Nobody has kicked anyone out yet but their numbers are dwindling and food is already rotting in the fields and we cant get nursing staff. Eastern European economies are starting to boom while ours falters. There was even an advert recently in the news from Bulgaria I think advertising for British workers! Camps are available Barry and the tragedies in the Med mainly involve chancers and wet behind the ears charities that believe they are helping and of course your heroes mad invitation ... Since June 2017 employment for British nationals is way up ... I wanted Brexit to be a kick up the sr$e for many things including our immigration policy , work shy Brits and our ridiculous overseas aid ... I still hope all 3 of those will be looked at once Brexit is done ... Personally I've said many times I don't want any hard luck stories here as we do more than enough financially helping and I've also said many times you want the hard luck stories and have room for them so do the decent thing instead of letting towns like mine take em Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 2:40 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:15 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 9:10 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Most dont have to flee anywhere , those that do surely would prefer another Muslim country rather than trawling through Europe to get here ... Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? I agree with most of what your saying Antony. Only 10% of Refugees from war zones in the middle east make it to Europe though and generally they are pretty clever resourceful people but they are mixed in with chancers and it seems a criminal element mainly from African countries and sadly the odd potential terrorist. I dont want people like that any more than you do.but I dont want families, children or genuine refugees wandering around Europe homeless and desperate either. We cant let them all in but we cant block them all out either. Its an impossible situation. You could be like Trump and just blanket ban them all or stick a few kiddies in cages, separated from their families but there would be international outcry and how long before that type of policy leads to some kind of mass tragedy in the Mediterranean? The EU workers I am sure will still be able to work here but nobody considered the fact that they might choose not to. Nobody has kicked anyone out yet but their numbers are dwindling and food is already rotting in the fields and we cant get nursing staff. Eastern European economies are starting to boom while ours falters. There was even an advert recently in the news from Bulgaria I think advertising for British workers! Camps are available Barry and the tragedies in the Med mainly involve chancers and wet behind the ears charities that believe they are helping and of course your heroes mad invitation ... Since June 2017 employment for British nationals is way up ... I wanted Brexit to be a kick up the sr$e for many things including our immigration policy , work shy Brits and our ridiculous overseas aid ... I still hope all 3 of those will be looked at once Brexit is done ... Personally I've said many times I don't want any hard luck stories here as we do more than enough financially helping and I've also said many times you want the hard luck stories and have room for them so do the decent thing instead of letting towns like mine take em Fair enough. So are you going to offer a Chancer/Migrant/Refugee a room Barry? ;-) ............ Just askin :D ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 3:31 PM Nope What happened to I don't want families and children wandering around Europe homeless ??? ... Lasted all of about an hour that one ... No I get it you don't want that but you want someone else to have it in their area ... Again ... Nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:09 PM Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. "Most have left" ... Rubbish ... Your boyfriend posted a Beano link showing immigration down.....are you disagreeing with him now? Last 3 delivery drivers to me have been east European ... We broke down guy who came to get us was Italian ... Company that came to take us home on transporter the driver was Hungarian ... etc etc Lucky you........the Brits were still in bed having another duvet day so you'd still be at the roadside had it not been for those damned foreigners. So Mr Motormouth didn't have the courage of his convictions to tell the driver, "foreigner huh.....no dice, i only accept British workers". Typical. *-) What with all those takeaway joints run by Chinese and Indian folks, next thing you know you'll be getting spring rolls and fried rice for breakfast........shocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 John52 - 2018-08-16 2:20 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:09 PM Bulletguy - 2018-08-16 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 6:24 AM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 8:16 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 6:10 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 4:48 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-15 12:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-15 11:56 AM antony1969 - 2018-08-14 12:22 PM Wonder if us Brexit voters are to blame Could be or it might be in the future as we are already having to recruit from Asia and Africa to make up the short fall in the NHS as Europeans leave. If we run out of hospitality workers, Fruit pickers, etc etc as well which we are already doing where are they going to come from I wonder? Remember Vote leave canvassed huge sections of the Asian community stating that a vote for Brexit would allow more immigration from their homelands. So it is Brexits fault No but if we end up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because of Brexit then who knows if one of them could be a terrorist. I thought we ended up with more immigrants from Muslim countries because the likes of you want em due to them fleeing supposed war and persecution ... Thats nothing to do with Brexit and do remember the world is a big place it may seem like its full of only of Muslims at times but its not ... Im not blaming you personally though for terrorism Barry even though your cutely blaming Brexit and that obviously means those that voted that way ... I'd never stoop that low ... As we know our EU immigrants dont behave much better ... https://news.sky.com/story/romanian-crime-boss-florin-ghinea-arrested-outside-gym-in-watford-11473507 ... Lordy thankfully you never got to foster this one ... He only made it to France ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6059239/Four-injured-Afghan-asylum-seeker-launches-knife-rampage-sleepy-French-town.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline No the ones fleeing war and persecutions are refugees or at least some of them are. I never said I Wanted them here either just that we have a duty of care as does the world to take our share of "Genuine" refugees. I was talking about legitimate immigrants that will probably have to be shipped in from somewhere if the Europeans all bugger off which they are doing thanks to Brexit. Its not stooping low either pointing out that possibly as a result of voting to leave the EU we may end up with more immigrants from outside of the EU. I dont suppose many people when they put their cross on the ballot paper thought about it just like they never thought about the thousands of potential downsides to Brexit. EU Migrants that commit crimes can and are chucked out, the Afghan bloke in your link is clearly nuts. Why is that relevant? People go nuts no matter where they are from. Its relevant because you want to help the worlds needy and that Afghan fella is obviously needy fleeing war and persecution ... Trouble is you like me and the rest of the world cant filter the small amount who are needy from the greedy ... I dont want them but you do so because of the likes of you we have let them into the UK and Europe to kill , rape and commit crime all while you sleep in your cosy village ... You say you never wanted them here yet in the next breath say we have a duty of care to take them , which is it your making me dizzy ... You mention we may end up with more immigrants from outside the EU ... Well of course we will but that doesnt necessarily mean they are all going to be Muslim like you seem to suggest ... Look at your map of the world its a big place ... It may shock ya its much bigger than just those 28 EU member countries I Would rather they didnt have to flee their countries and come here or anywhere else but they do and if every country turned their back on them where would they go? Moving forward if we are to attract immigrants to do the jobs that the EU workers did where will they come from? I suspect from countries that are worse off than the UK or Europe, most of those are in Africa or Asia where there is a large percentage of Muslims. Wont EU workers still be able to work here Barry after Brexit ??? Most have left UK and won't return due to the xenophobic bile and hatred since Brexit. Can't say i blame them.....post Brexit has certainly brought the worst out in some people. Very nasty mindset. "Most have left" ... Rubbish ... Last 3 delivery drivers to me have been east European ... We broke down guy who came to get us was Italian ... Company that came to take us home on transporter the driver was Hungarian ... etc etc Unfortunately Bullet is right and it makes me very sad and ashamed to be English since I have never experienced any such hostility in their countries :$ Oh there is certainly some such as Pegida and other far right extremists......the political 'causes' which Antony champions and coos about. Fortunately they make up a very tiny obscure bunch of misfits whom their own nationals disown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 2:15 PM I wanted Brexit to be a kick up the sr$e for many things including our immigration policy , work shy Brits and our ridiculous overseas aid ... I still hope all 3 of those will be looked at once Brexit is done ... I agree and want those 3 things changed too. Where we differ is I haven't been conned into blaming the EU for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-16 4:00 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 3:31 PM Nope What happened to I don't want families and children wandering around Europe homeless ??? ... Lasted all of about an hour that one ... No I get it you don't want that but you want someone else to have it in their area ... Again ... Nice I actually agreed with what you had to say above and your still not happy! You made some valid points and I said "Fair enough". I Dont want families and children wandering around Europe homeless and I certainly dont want thousands of economic migrants heading for Europe either. I would prefer it in an ideal world if we could plough more resources into keeping them out of Europe but keeping them safe and deterring economic migrants from Africa from coming at all but its not that simple. I also agree with you that it is unfair if they all end up in places like Huddersfield and I see your frustration at people like me in the second least populated region of England preaching that we should let em all in which actually I have never said. I think we and other countries should let in genuine refugees who are at risk thats all. How we share the burden is another matter. However the UK is lucky in some respects as we really dont get that many anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 What Antony seems to want, and he will correct me if I am wrong, is that we stop accepting refugees in the UK. We could unilaterally decide to withdraw from Refugee Convention (unlikely as a political minefield both domestically and internationally) or we could seek a completely new form of Convention for the countries throughout the world to adopt via the UN that combats the present problem with economic migrants posing as legitimate claimants. Trying to get that through the UN would take years. There is a good article to be found in the Guardian about the relevance of the Refugee Convention and its flaws in the modern era here: - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/18/geneva-refugee-convention-crisis-demand-eu The bottom line is that Brexit soft or hard does not absolve the UK from performing its obligations under the Refugee Convention at present. This includes the obligation to consider any claims made by people who have entered the UK that they are entitled to be allowed to remain here. As we who discuss these issues often know that obligation subject to the Dublin III regulations i.e. a claimant can be returned to the first EU member state in which the landed for their claims to be considered there and not in the UK. A failure to negotiate a new type of Dublin III arrangement with the EU post Brexit is likely to result in asylum seekers that have had their claims rejected in other EU states making their way to the UK for a “second chance” application. Many EU member states may be quite willing for them to do so by setting them free to go where they like, most likely in our direction given that it is the UK that would ultimately bear the expense of any repatriation. How likely is it then that the other states will continue a Dublin III type agreement with us? We’d be the perfect dumping ground. In short, Brexit is not a solution to this problem and may well exacerbate it. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-16 6:21 PM What Antony seems to want, and he will correct me if I am wrong, is that we stop accepting refugees in the UK. We could unilaterally decide to withdraw from Refugee Convention (unlikely as a political minefield both domestically and internationally) or we could seek a completely new form of Convention for the countries throughout the world to adopt via the UN that combats the present problem with economic migrants posing as legitimate claimants. Trying to get that through the UN would take years. There is a good article to be found in the Guardian about the relevance of the Refugee Convention and its flaws in the modern era here: - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/18/geneva-refugee-convention-crisis-demand-eu The bottom line is that Brexit soft or hard does not absolve the UK from performing its obligations under the Refugee Convention at present. This includes the obligation to consider any claims made by people who have entered the UK that they are entitled to be allowed to remain here. As we who discuss these issues often know that obligation subject to the Dublin III regulations i.e. a claimant can be returned to the first EU member state in which the landed for their claims to be considered there and not in the UK. A failure to negotiate a new type of Dublin III arrangement with the EU post Brexit is likely to result in asylum seekers that have had their claims rejected in other EU states making their way to the UK for a “second chance” application. Many EU member states may be quite willing for them to do so by setting them free to go where they like, most likely in our direction given that it is the UK that would ultimately bear the expense of any repatriation. How likely is it then that the other states will continue a Dublin III type agreement with us? We’d be the perfect dumping ground. In short, Brexit is not a solution to this problem and may well exacerbate it. :-( Not if we unilaterally remove ourselves from the convention :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 True Dave but as I have said, that is a political minefield.and in any event that won't happen before Brexit. How likely it is to happen post-Brexit is anyone's guess. By the time we got round to it ( remember we will be extremely busy after Brexit sorting out all sorts of stuff) we could be swamped with a significant number of Europe's rejected asylum claimants. We don't have a good record as far as removals are concerned. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-16 6:21 PM What Antony seems to want, and he will correct me if I am wrong, is that we stop accepting refugees in the UK. We could unilaterally decide to withdraw from Refugee Convention (unlikely as a political minefield both domestically and internationally) or we could seek a completely new form of Convention for the countries throughout the world to adopt via the UN that combats the present problem with economic migrants posing as legitimate claimants. Trying to get that through the UN would take years. There is a good article to be found in the Guardian about the relevance of the Refugee Convention and its flaws in the modern era here: - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/18/geneva-refugee-convention-crisis-demand-eu The bottom line is that Brexit soft or hard does not absolve the UK from performing its obligations under the Refugee Convention at present. This includes the obligation to consider any claims made by people who have entered the UK that they are entitled to be allowed to remain here. As we who discuss these issues often know that obligation subject to the Dublin III regulations i.e. a claimant can be returned to the first EU member state in which the landed for their claims to be considered there and not in the UK. A failure to negotiate a new type of Dublin III arrangement with the EU post Brexit is likely to result in asylum seekers that have had their claims rejected in other EU states making their way to the UK for a “second chance” application. Many EU member states may be quite willing for them to do so by setting them free to go where they like, most likely in our direction given that it is the UK that would ultimately bear the expense of any repatriation. How likely is it then that the other states will continue a Dublin III type agreement with us? We’d be the perfect dumping ground. In short, Brexit is not a solution to this problem and may well exacerbate it. :-( Yes your quite right Im all done with sympathy and dont want any more here ... I understand perfectly that some genuine refugees need help which I am quite open to but in the camps etc set up ... I want to help our own mainly like the old who this winter wont be able to decide wether to eat or heat rather than housing what I see locally as just chancers being housed , fed , clothed , medical needs etc ... By the way Italy seems to be doing quite nicely refusing refugees wether they are genuine or not and I presume they are as obliged as us under The Refugee Convention to take em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 6:03 PM antony1969 - 2018-08-16 4:00 PM Barryd999 - 2018-08-16 3:31 PM Nope What happened to I don't want families and children wandering around Europe homeless ??? ... Lasted all of about an hour that one ... No I get it you don't want that but you want someone else to have it in their area ... Again ... Nice I actually agreed with what you had to say above and your still not happy! You made some valid points and I said "Fair enough". I Dont want families and children wandering around Europe homeless and I certainly dont want thousands of economic migrants heading for Europe either. I would prefer it in an ideal world if we could plough more resources into keeping them out of Europe but keeping them safe and deterring economic migrants from Africa from coming at all but its not that simple. I also agree with you that it is unfair if they all end up in places like Huddersfield and I see your frustration at people like me in the second least populated region of England preaching that we should let em all in which actually I have never said. I think we and other countries should let in genuine refugees who are at risk thats all. How we share the burden is another matter. However the UK is lucky in some respects as we really dont get that many anyway. I presumed your "fair enough" wasn't really you agreeing with what I had said ... Nobody ever does on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-16 6:54 PM True Dave but as I have said, that is a political minefield.and in any event that won't happen before Brexit. How likely it is to happen post-Brexit is anyone's guess. By the time we got round to it ( remember we will be extremely busy after Brexit sorting out all sorts of stuff) we could be swamped with a significant number of Europe's rejected asylum claimants. We don't have a good record as far as removals are concerned. :-( Which will add to the calls for rejection of the convention ;-) .................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Yes Antony, and those refused asylum by Italy may be coming our way very soon. They are probably in contact with their traffickers already in preparation the great day that Brexiteers are looking forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-08-16 8:04 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-16 6:54 PM True Dave but as I have said, that is a political minefield.and in any event that won't happen before Brexit. How likely it is to happen post-Brexit is anyone's guess. By the time we got round to it ( remember we will be extremely busy after Brexit sorting out all sorts of stuff) we could be swamped with a significant number of Europe's rejected asylum claimants. We don't have a good record as far as removals are concerned. :-( Which will add to the calls for rejection of the convention ;-) .................. But shouldn't rejection of the Convention have come first before people were duped into thinking that Brexit was the solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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