Pete-B Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I know it's all if's and buts and chances you take but I ask myself do I really need to carry a spare wheel? I've been driving for well over fifty years and for the life of me I can't remember the last time I had a puncture. After adding various items to the van I could do with a bit more payload and got to wondering just how much the spare wheel weighs? If anyone has any idea or has done away with their spare I would appreciate your thoughts. I do have full breakdown cover so in the rare possibility I do get a puncture I guess this would get me out of trouble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Last time I read the t&c's on my breakdown it said if a spare wheel was standard equipment you where expected to carry it. Whilst you might be argue that one never came with the van they might then ask to see the repair gunk and pump that would replace it. p.s. I must have had all the punctures that you haven't had, across my vehicles I seem to average one puncture every two years, I had my new tyres on van about 6 months before getting the last puncture in one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifo Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 We’ve had at least 5 punctures over 4 vans: in two cases the tyres were a complete write- off. Had we not had a spare each time we would probably be still sitting by the roadside in darkest Spain. Remember that the gunk put in tyres to get you home means that tyre cannot be repaired so you have to buy a new one anyway. We’ve always called out the breakdown company and they have always been very efficient. They have the necessary expertise and equipment ( proper jack etc) to deal with big vehicles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 My Rapido didnt come with a spare and I really dont have anywhere to put one. Last year at the Peterborough show I had some self sealing gunk put into the tyres, just in case. I'm off to Spain in a few weeks but had worries about insurance so emailed Comfort and they told me they would still recover van if need be. Still thinking about just getting a tyre but cant think where to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-B Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 I must admit I didn't give a thought about the insurance side of it and it does make sense what you say. Back to the drawing board I guess! Thanks for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DickB Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 My spare weighs about 25kg and well worth the peace of mind. Without it, if your tyre is damaged you could wait months for a replacement as these tyres are manufactured in batches, usually every 6 months. You could easily have damage to the wheel rim if the tyre goes flat, so even carrying only a tyre could be useless. It is like insurance, pay premiums for years with no claim, but would you cancel on the basis that you haven't used it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-07-04 9:28 PM My Rapido didnt come with a spare and I really dont have anywhere to put one. Last year at the Peterborough show I had some self sealing gunk put into the tyres, just in case. I'm off to Spain in a few weeks but had worries about insurance so emailed Comfort and they told me they would still recover van if need be. Still thinking about just getting a tyre but cant think where to keep it. Can you fit a wheel/tyre under the floor? That's where it is on our Gloobecar, but it was designed that way. p.s. I think spare wheels may be a legal requirement in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Each to their own . but I would not dream of driving a vehicle without a spare wheel, as for pay load, I removed the rear steadies that were fitted to my vans alko chassis, never used them once and boy were they heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 We had a rear wheel puncture northbound on the very busy A1 dual-carriageway near Grantham last week, returning home from the Tunnel. Granted it's the first in over 100,000 miles of motorhome travel, but without the spare and TPMS it could have been both dangerous and very inconvenient. As it was, the TPMS warned of the deflation allowing us to make a prompt exit off of the DC and away from the stream of HGVs and other traffic and I fitted the spare and we back rolling in about 30 mins. For me that one incident has justified both carrying a spare all those miles and putting up with the foibles of Peugeot's TPMS implementation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Fifo - 2019-07-04 9:21 PM ...Remember that the gunk put in tyres to get you home means that tyre cannot be repaired so you have to buy a new one anyway... Historically this was true, but the introduction of water-based sealants has meant that - after the sealant has been washed from the tyre’s inside - a normal repair will be possible. Advice about the FIX & GO repair kit that commonly comes with a Boxer/Ducato/Relay (when no spare-wheel is provided) is as follows: Question: What to do after I have successfully repaired a tyre with the Fix & Go? Can I reuse my tyre? Answer: After the repair, you can drive for over 600mi/1000km at a maximum speed of 65mph/110km/h before visiting a tyre specialist who will wash out the sealant from the tyre (this process will take less than 10 minutes and plain water) and definitively conclude the tyre repair. After that, your tyre can be re-used as new. Regardind Spain and motorhomes, this 2016 link https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/motorhome-chat/56060-you-need-actual-spare-wheel-spain.html refers to authoritative advice here http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/spain/12586-instruccion-08-v-74-english.html that says The minimum equipment which a motorhome should carry, will be in accordance with Annex XII of the General Rules of Vehicle, as follows: One set of replacement light bulbs, in prime condition and the necessary tools to change the light bulbs; two portable, red, triangle devices to forewarn of danger; a spare wheel or a temporary wheel with the necessary tools required to change the wheel or an alternative system which offers sufficient guarantee for the mobility of the vehicle. Likewise, when drivers leave the vehicle and occupy the road or the hard shoulder on intercity routes a high-visibility reflective vest, certified according to the Royal Decree 1407/1992, of November 20, must be used. Presumably it could successfully be argued that a ‘goo’ sealant kit would be an acceptable “alternative system”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The gunk I've had installed is suppose to make the tyre self sealing so might not even know I'd had a puncture and once it's sealed it doesn't need repairing. Not sure I would want to change a wheel on my van myself, especially at the side of the A1, with a little scissor jack. Removing the steadies sounds a good idea, will have a look when I get home, might just be enough weight gain to cover a tyre or wheel. Just need to find a spare space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The other issue sometimes mentioned is that the French breakdown rules stipulate that both tyres should be of identical specification on the same axle. Some companies take this that if an identical tyre is not available, they will try and make you buy two! How they get on with space saver tyres? I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-07-05 12:34 PM Not sure I would want to change a wheel on my van myself, especially at the side of the A1, with a little scissor jack. We did manage to get off the A1 and about a quarter of a mile into a village where there was a car park. If it had fully deflated on the A1 we would have abandoned ship and run for cover.. The standard Sevel scissor jack isn't little by any means and did the job admirably, as I knew it would because I'd practised at home, backed up with a pair of the plastic Fiamma stands (750kg rated each). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webby1 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Now I know people have strong opinions about this but we do not carry a spare.My understanding from Comfort is that you will be recovered as long as a spare is not standard equipment.....ours came with the gunk. I think I would always call recovery and if we have to wait for a tyre then luckily we are in a fully equiped motorhome.Many companies such as Oponeo promise to deliver anywhere in Europe in a couple of days. Of course we may not get a puncture. HOWEVER I was worried during our last trip to Morocco, as there is no recovery service as such, so you really could be stuck.When we return next year I will definitely be taking a spare wheel. So any advice appreciated. With a short piece of scaffolding plank the supplied scissor jack will lift the van enough to change the wheel. I do not intend to get under the van but to provide extra support whilst changing, I am considering getting 4 tonne bottle jack or an axle stand. Any thoughts welcome. Of course we might not get a puncture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 There is a further consideration to mull over. As stated above, it is not uncommon for heavier vehicles such as motorhomes to destroy the tyre that has the puncture in the process of stopping and manoeuvring to a safe place. You then need a new tyre and, as (I think! :-)) the great majority of motorhomes will be on Camping Car (CP) tyres, for legality (and safety) the new tyre must be of the same type as its counterpart across the axle, and that would require another CP tyre be obtained. The availability of CP tyres has proved erratic at times (they are produced in batches), and I understand that it is common in France (I can't comment on other countries) that if the tyre to be replaced is, for example, a Michelin, the fitter will not fit a Continental even if it is in every other technical respect the equivalent of the Michelin. (Bear in mind also that the present Michelin Agilis Camper tyre is M+S rated, which further muddies the water when seeking a single tyre to replace one on the same axle as a Michelin Agilis camper.) The conclusion I draw from this is that it is better to carry at least a matching tyre than not, because although it is true that punctures are rare nowadays, they can still happen, for some reason at the worst possible time from the point of view of readily obtaining a replacement. How about half way up a mountain, on a wet Sunday night? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-07-05 7:00 PM The conclusion I draw from this is that it is better to carry at least a matching tyre than not, because although it is true that punctures are rare nowadays, they can still happen, for some reason at the worst possible time from the point of view of readily obtaining a replacement. How about half way up a mountain, on a wet Sunday night? :-D Wipers only pack up when it's raining, lights only blow when it's dark, and punctures always happen at the worse possible time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Billggski - 2019-07-05 2:28 PM The other issue sometimes mentioned is that the French breakdown rules stipulate that both tyres should be of identical specification on the same axle. Some companies take this that if an identical tyre is not available, they will try and make you buy two! How they get on with space saver tyres? I have no idea. This was discussed in some depth here in 2013 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/urgent-advice-re-tyres/31371/ As far as I’m aware there is no UK motoring regulation that demands that a motorhome that has “CP”-marked tyres originally must continue to be fitted with “CP”-marked tyres for the rest of its life, nor that - if a single “CP”-marked tyre needs to be replaced - that it must be replaced with another “CP”-marked tyre. Replacing like-with-like has potential advantages (eg. setting the tyre pressure) and, if a spare tyre is to be carried and all the motorhome’s existing tyres are the same, it would make sense that the spare tyre matches. But it’s not a legal imperative and ‘budget’ wheel/tyre combinations are marketed specifically for emergency usage (examples here) https://www.thewheelshop.co.uk/space-saver-wheels/fiat-vans-motorhomes Motorcyclists don’t carry spare wheels/tyres and, even if a motorhome has a spare wheel/tyre, this won’t be a guaranteed panacea. As I’ve mentioned here before, my previous Hobby motorhome - equipped as standard with a spare wheel - had a rear-wheel tyre-valve fail when in France. As I was changing the wheel the valve on the opposite wheel failed! This was on a Saturday afternoon and, as nothing could be done until Monday, we were immobile across the weekend. I retro-fitted a spare wheel to my 2015 Rapido 640F and the tyre I chose matches the original “CP”-marked Michelin tyres, but the 640F’s layout allows a spare wheel to be housed tidily in the rear garage. If I owned a Rapido 665F like Stevec176’s, I almost certainly would not attempt to carry a complete spare wheel/tyre combination or even a spare tyre as that model’s layout seems to make it impracticable to house either within the motorhome’s interior. I’d just do as Steve has done and heve ‘gunk’ put in the tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-06 8:52 AM...………………….As far as I’m aware there is no UK motoring regulation that demands that a motorhome that has “CP”-marked tyres originally must continue to be fitted with “CP”-marked tyres for the rest of its life, nor that - if a single “CP”-marked tyre needs to be replaced - that it must be replaced with another “CP”-marked tyre...………………. Derek, do you happen to know whether this extends to tyres that are M+S marked? I appreciate that this is not the full "winter tyre" snowflake symbol, but I have hitherto assumed that M+S marked tyres are sufficiently different in some respect from plain vanilla C, or CP, rated tyres, that only another M+S (of matching construction, size and load/speed ratings) tyre should be fitted opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 That fix and go unit is a tricky thing. You can use the air compressor only to pump up the tyre. But keep the sealant bottlle out of the unit. In case you need the bottle for a leak be aware to mix correctly or your unit is contaminated whit sealant and no longer useable. Price 250 euro. Do not believe in ten minutes wash out of the sealant by water and the speed limits mentioned above. Be aware of the date limit of the sealant.. In belgium we call road assistance and they are there very fast. Leave it to them. And do not go under tons of axle weights beside a high way anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Road asist use high tech plugs if possible. But of ease of mind a spare wheel can be fitted by them. If you have one carried on the roof or back of a Van or garage MH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-07-06 2:46 PM Derek, do you happen to know whether this extends to tyres that are M+S marked?... My understanding is that there is nothing special or unusual about a tyre that carries the “M+S” marking and I refer you to the following links https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-article/winter-tyres-don-t-rely-on-the-m-s-mark https://www.tires-easy.com/blog/mountainsnowflake-symbol/ When it comes to the legality of ‘mixing' tyres on a motorhome, the MOT inspection manual simply advises as follows: Structure Tyres of different types of structure, such as radial-ply and cross-ply, must not be mixed on the same axle. Steel and fabric radial-ply tyres are considered to be the same structure. Run flat and conventional tyres can be mixed on the same axle, although this is not recommended. In principle, a motorhome with every tyre made by a different manufacturer and with a wide variety in tread pattern could still pass the UK’s MOT test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Yes, thanks Derek. But I believe the same is not true outside the UK? I was thinking more of practise elsewhere rather than just in UK. In France I believe tyre fitters are particularly inflexible, but I don't know whether the same is true for other countries. If the interpretation that I understand is followed in France is more widely followed, the advantage of carrying a spare - despite the payload penalty - would seem to be enhanced. Apologies: I didn't make that clear in my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I don’t know about French tyre fitters being inflexible, but the ones that fitted metal tyre-valves suitable for wheels with a 8mm-diameter rim-hole to my Hobby motorhome’s wheels (11.3mm rim-hole) were certainly incompetent. When you say "I believe the same is not true outside the UK”, why do you believe this is the case? My Rapido has Michelin “CP” marked tyres that are also “M+S” marked. I could understand a French tyre fitter objecting to fitting a single Continental “CP” marked tyre as a replacement as this would mean that one of the Rapido’s axles would carry two different ‘marques’ of tyre. But I would anticipate the French fitter being prepared to fit a single Michelin tyre that was neither “CP” marked nor “M+S” marked, as it’s the ‘marque’ of the tyres that seems to be critical in France not the markings on the tyres’ side-wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-07-07 8:53 AM...…………... When you say "I believe the same is not true outside the UK”, why do you believe this is the case? …………………………………... I was reminded by Bill's post above, that I'll quote here for convenience: Billggski - 2019-07-05 2:28 PM The other issue sometimes mentioned is that the French breakdown rules stipulate that both tyres should be of identical specification on the same axle. Some companies take this that if an identical tyre is not available, they will try and make you buy two! How they get on with space saver tyres? I have no idea. This goes back some years, so may have changed, but from memory (I know! :-)) I saw it referenced in a letter to Le Monde du Camping Car from an indignant French motorhomer, complaining that he had more or less been coerced into buying two tyres following a blow-out as the existing tyre opposite that damaged was no longer available - so the only permissible solution was to fit two identical tyres - despite the remaining tyre being perfectly serviceable. Following editions continued the discussion with various participants contributing, including one writer who said that a tyre fitter refused to fit a tyre of the same make, construction, size, speed and load ratings, because the tread pattern varied from that opposite. He too was coerced into buying a matching pair. I thought the claims somewhat puzzling (the implication being that fitters were brow-beating drivers into buying unnecessary tyres for their own gain), but I think there was eventually a reference to the government for clarification, resulting in the particular regulation being quoted - which left considerable scope for interpretation! The problem seemed to be that fitters become legally liable for the consequences if the wrong tyre mix is supplied so, to avoid any risk on that account, they are inclined to take the line that the supplied tyre must be identical in all respects to its opposite counterpart. The problem for the vehicle owner then is that whereas he may be able to argue his point, if the fitter folds his arms and says "non", he needs to seek out another fitter which, in a country the size of France, plus having a flat tyre, would present something of a challenge! My conclusion has been to always carry a spare, which I accept is not a practical option for motorhomers whose vans cannot accommodate one. So, I wondered if your tyre research had thrown up any pointers as to whether this interpretation remains common in France, or whether it is reflected outside France. As she's joined in, perhaps Monique could say what is permissible in Belgium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkyrunner Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 My present M/H did not come with a spare so I priced some up for it and it is a bit of a mindfield. Luckily the supplying dealer managed to get me one to match the Michelins on the M/H, at a reasonable price and the peace of mind it brings is worth every penny. In 40 plus years of camping with Caravans and M/H,s I can count on the fingers of one hand how many I have had but I do not travel without one. It fits in the garage as this type of chassis apparantly does not lend itself to having the underslung carrier. And yes its heavy (30kgs 16Inch) so I secure it against the inner wall of the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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