John52 Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-08 6:30 PM it will be interesting to see who, actually, approved that non-compliant cladding, How long should it take to find that out? And how long have we been waiting? This is one of the reasons I smell whitewash >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 John52 - 2019-11-09 5:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-08 6:30 PM it will be interesting to see who, actually, approved that non-compliant cladding, How long should it take to find that out? And how long have we been waiting? This is one of the reasons I smell whitewash >:-( Have you left one of your Poo bags open? 8-) ......... Coz I smell lefty bullsh*t *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-11-08 7:54 PM.................... 1 Where "the top" is has been partly answered by comments from the article Pat posted where the fire officer who wrote it explained how their word used to be law on all buildings but since deregulation the building owner is responsible for fire safety. 2 So, who made that decision to deregulate? We can use that as a start point if you like as "the top". It can only have come from central government as far as i'm aware, then implemented by the building owner....local government. 3 Next point on is who initially chose the cladding (not just for Grenfell) and why that particular cladding? Who authorised the fitting of it.....local government or national? 4 So we are gradually working our way down but in the right direction imo. I empathise with his sentiments over the LFB because as soon as i heard the initial reports i felt the criticism was totally unjustified to the point of them being scapegoated....which happens all too often in many other industries/professions when something goes badly wrong. 5 Re. the Grenfell Action Group, all the main links on the site pre-date the fire. They're clearly dated when first posted such as this one on March 14th 2017.....three months before the fire. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/kctmo-feeling-the-heat/ 1 I think "de-regulation" is too strong, Paul. The regulations were not withdrawn or watered down, it was just that the formal role of the fire brigades in approving applications under building regulations was withdrawn. I did not, and do not, think that was a good idea, precisely because the experience of the ex-fire fighters gave them insights into risks that others are less likely to foresee. It was not that their word was law - they couldn't make it up - just that they understood better than most the risks the regulations were intended to avert. 2 That decision (same caveat about de-regulate :-)) was made by the Secretary of State (probably the then Secretary of State for the Environment), under the 1984 Building Act. 3 Who chose? I don't know. Architects were initially involved, and proposed the use of cladding over external insulation as the best solution, but they don't seem to have been retained to arrange tenders and oversee the work. That seems to have gone to Rydon Homes, who are primarily a house builder, but I have no idea whether Rydon's contract with RBKC was to develop and construct (in which case they would have specified all materials as part of their work) or whether they were to execute to designs and specifications handed to them. Building Regs approval appears to have been part of Rydon's responsibility, which points to develop and construct. RBKC seem not to have granted approval ('though their building control officers made frequent visit to the site). So, that leaves an approved inspector as the most likely body. Unless, of course, some bright spark persuaded everyone that the installation of cladding did not constitute building work, so was not subject to Building Regs approval! Why that cladding? It will have been decided on a balance of aesthetics, suitability, durability, functional adequacy and cost. But why that particular cladding? That has to be discovered. Especially why Reynobond PE was used instead of Reynobond FR. If FR had been approved and specified, an agreement to vary the contract to substitute PE would have been required from both the employer (RBKC) and the approval authority. This is the real question. How and why did flammable cladding (not forgetting the Celotex insulation - which stipulates in its technical literature that it has been fully tested as part of a cladding system that incorporated an incombustible rainscreen, and goes on to state that any variation to that design would require a full scale re-test. Seems that bit was missed as well.) Questions, questions! 4 Agreed. 5 Yes, I noticed that, but none of their complaints from before the fire seemed to question the proposed cladding system. They'd identified a number of valid issues, but not the central issue. This is not a criticism, I wouldn't expect them to have been able to do so. I'm just answering your point that the TMA identified the risk and, so far as I can see, they had not. Identified risks, yes, but not the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 John52 - 2019-11-09 5:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-08 6:30 PM it will be interesting to see who, actually, approved that non-compliant cladding, How long should it take to find that out? And how long have we been waiting? This is one of the reasons I smell whitewash >:-( You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment! :-D That is why I'm surprised that Moore-Bick focused on the events of the day first, leaving investigation of the records of the approvals procedure at risk (unless the police have lifted them all as evidence) to being, ahem, lost. It seems he bowed to the public outcry to let those directly affected have their say, which is understandable, but ultimately, I think, a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-11-08 9:55 PM The Grenfell enquiry panel consists of a Judge, an architect and an academic said to have an international reputation in housing and participatory design and planning. Seems to me the panel could have benefit from an additional member with expertise in firefighting before it could issue a judgement that would have the confidence of the LFB. It also is unfortunate that the results of the enquiry begin with the publication of their findings in relation to the competence of people who had to risk their own lives responding to a situation they played no part in creating. Agreed. The expert witnesses are looking at all the relevant aspects of the fire, and how the materials came to be used and, from their credentials, are well qualified to do so. I think we'll get there. It has to be appreciated that firemen are trained to work in teams, and that they must have confidence that buildings they enter are constructed and maintained in accordance with the regulations, and so will perform predictably, because that is the basis of their training. Without that side of the bargain being upheld by the authorities, they are at incalculable risk when they enter burning buildings. It is largely a matter of luck, coupled with their experience of building fires, that none were killed at Grenfell. No-one should be surprised that they didn't work out why and how the fire was spreading so fast: what had been created was illegal, and should not have been re-occupied in its post refurbishment condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ And the TMO, since disbanded, has some key questions to answer. Grenfell Tower management company chief sent warning memo during fire https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/15/grenfell-tower-management-company-chief-sent-warning-memo-during-fire?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ I bet I know far more about so called Fire retardant materials than you ;-) ........ I used to burn fire retardant left over stuff :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago ... Trouble is when taken up on it he went all shy and refused to answer ... I think its safe to say you and your girlfriend aint got much of a clue over anything ... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-09 5:20 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-08 7:54 PM.................... 1 Where "the top" is has been partly answered by comments from the article Pat posted where the fire officer who wrote it explained how their word used to be law on all buildings but since deregulation the building owner is responsible for fire safety. 2 So, who made that decision to deregulate? We can use that as a start point if you like as "the top". It can only have come from central government as far as i'm aware, then implemented by the building owner....local government. 3 Next point on is who initially chose the cladding (not just for Grenfell) and why that particular cladding? Who authorised the fitting of it.....local government or national? 4 So we are gradually working our way down but in the right direction imo. I empathise with his sentiments over the LFB because as soon as i heard the initial reports i felt the criticism was totally unjustified to the point of them being scapegoated....which happens all too often in many other industries/professions when something goes badly wrong. 5 Re. the Grenfell Action Group, all the main links on the site pre-date the fire. They're clearly dated when first posted such as this one on March 14th 2017.....three months before the fire. https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2017/03/14/kctmo-feeling-the-heat/ 1 I think "de-regulation" is too strong, Paul. The regulations were not withdrawn or watered down, it was just that the formal role of the fire brigades in approving applications under building regulations was withdrawn. I did not, and do not, think that was a good idea, precisely because the experience of the ex-fire fighters gave them insights into risks that others are less likely to foresee. It was not that their word was law - they couldn't make it up - just that they understood better than most the risks the regulations were intended to avert. 2 That decision (same caveat about de-regulate :-)) was made by the Secretary of State (probably the then Secretary of State for the Environment), under the 1984 Building Act. 3 Who chose? I don't know. Architects were initially involved, and proposed the use of cladding over external insulation as the best solution, but they don't seem to have been retained to arrange tenders and oversee the work. That seems to have gone to Rydon Homes, who are primarily a house builder, but I have no idea whether Rydon's contract with RBKC was to develop and construct (in which case they would have specified all materials as part of their work) or whether they were to execute to designs and specifications handed to them. Building Regs approval appears to have been part of Rydon's responsibility, which points to develop and construct. RBKC seem not to have granted approval ('though their building control officers made frequent visit to the site). So, that leaves an approved inspector as the most likely body. Unless, of course, some bright spark persuaded everyone that the installation of cladding did not constitute building work, so was not subject to Building Regs approval! Why that cladding? It will have been decided on a balance of aesthetics, suitability, durability, functional adequacy and cost. But why that particular cladding? That has to be discovered. Especially why Reynobond PE was used instead of Reynobond FR. If FR had been approved and specified, an agreement to vary the contract to substitute PE would have been required from both the employer (RBKC) and the approval authority. This is the real question. How and why did flammable cladding (not forgetting the Celotex insulation - which stipulates in its technical literature that it has been fully tested as part of a cladding system that incorporated an incombustible rainscreen, and goes on to state that any variation to that design would require a full scale re-test. Seems that bit was missed as well.) Questions, questions! 4 Agreed. 5 Yes, I noticed that, but none of their complaints from before the fire seemed to question the proposed cladding system. They'd identified a number of valid issues, but not the central issue. This is not a criticism, I wouldn't expect them to have been able to do so. I'm just answering your point that the TMA identified the risk and, so far as I can see, they had not. Identified risks, yes, but not the risk. 1) I was simply using the same term that fire officer stated in the article Pat posted. "All that changed through deregulation at the end of the 90s. (The reform act of 2005 in fact). I was in fire protection at the time and I remember the old hands predicting a disaster." It seemed a bit daft to me cutting the experts out of the loop but resulted in the responsibility for fire safety standards being passed to the building owner. Who owned Grenfell? Apart from the basics, what do building owners know about fire safety? 3) Is where i hope the inquiry will seriously drill down into the many unanswered questions as to me, i think this is where they should have started. Cost is always going to be a factor. I assume there must be a variety of non-flammable insulation material made for buildings so why would anyone wrap a building in flammable cladding which was a disaster waiting to happen....cost? Are we seriously prepared to risk lives to shave a few grand off a social housing property refurb which was already poorly maintained? https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/grenfell-inquiry-what-to-expect-in-phase-two-64030 https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/news/news/landlords-braced-for-block-management-overhaul-after-grenfell-inquiry-changes-64060 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:34 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ I bet I know far more about so called Fire retardant materials than you ;-) ........ I used to burn fire retardant left over stuff :D .......... Paddy Bump :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. WTF would you know about proper building standards? ;-) ........ Have you ever built anything bigger than your Communist lefty ego? >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Utter guff ... Visited Germany on 3 separate occasions and been in loads of buildings thanks ... I cant say as someone who's in the building trade Ive noticed their super build standards though , you obviously have so please enlighten me and the rest of Chatterbox otherwise you are as usual just trolling me ... I'll "safely bet" you cant name a God damn thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 8:26 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Utter guff ... Visited Germany on 3 separate occasions and been in loads of buildings thanks ... I cant say as someone who's in the building trade Ive noticed their super build standards though. "Loads of buildings". Get a grip.....you're going all Hollywood again. (lol) Only visiting three times gives scope for little more than a few bars and supermarkets. And slapping tiles on a roof hardly equates to "building trade". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 9, 2019 Author Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:47 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 8:26 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Utter guff ... Visited Germany on 3 separate occasions and been in loads of buildings thanks ... I cant say as someone who's in the building trade Ive noticed their super build standards though. "Loads of buildings". Get a grip.....you're going all Hollywood again. (lol) Only visiting three times gives scope for little more than a few bars and supermarkets. And slapping tiles on a roof hardly equates to "building trade". Youve been caught out again and now your going all red rage again aren't ya princess ... You simply cant back up what you claimed you could "safely say" princess and instead of admitting that youve gone totally Spielberg ??? ... Instead of the guff prove what you claim , it'll make your family if they remember ya very proud ... As for "slapping tiles" on a roof I don't put tiles on roofs sweetie thats for common building site types and tha's no money in that for me though slapping tiles on a roof as much as you protest does come under the building trade unless you can prove me wrong ??? ... Off you pop princess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:47 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 8:26 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Utter guff ... Visited Germany on 3 separate occasions and been in loads of buildings thanks ... I cant say as someone who's in the building trade Ive noticed their super build standards though. "Loads of buildings". Get a grip.....you're going all Hollywood again. (lol) Only visiting three times gives scope for little more than a few bars and supermarkets. And slapping tiles on a roof hardly equates to "building trade". Come on Bullet .........Man up ;-) ........What have you ever had built? >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:34 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ I bet I know far more about so called Fire retardant materials than you ;-) ........ I used to burn fire retardant left over stuff :D .......... Your old curtains aren't the same as ACM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago ... Trouble is when taken up on it he went all shy and refused to answer ... I think its safe to say you and your girlfriend aint got much of a clue over anything ... Regards And you fecking hod carriers know feck all about ACM's. So either address the question raised in my link or wind your neck in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 9:10 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:47 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 8:26 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. Utter guff ... Visited Germany on 3 separate occasions and been in loads of buildings thanks ... I cant say as someone who's in the building trade Ive noticed their super build standards though. "Loads of buildings". Get a grip.....you're going all Hollywood again. (lol) Only visiting three times gives scope for little more than a few bars and supermarkets. And slapping tiles on a roof hardly equates to "building trade". Youve been caught out again and now your going all red rage again aren't ya princess ... "Caught out"?? WTF are you on about pansy? You said you've been to Germany three times and "been in loads of buildings". Care to elaborate more otherwise it's just meaningless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-09 8:20 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-09 8:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-09 6:35 PM You'll "safely bet" ... Your girlfriend Bulletgay told the world he could "safely say" why German building regs were better than the UKs only a couple of weeks ago No i didn't, i said property build standards not 'regs'. Big difference. I know you've been desperately trolling and baiting with your ridiculous nonsense which i ignored as it was patently clear in that thread you hadn't actually been inside any properties there, which i suggested you should, and then you would see for yourself. Grow up. WTF would you know about proper building standards? ;-) .... Pelmet.........are you drunk again as your reading ability has clouded up considerably? Lay off the booze for once. Are you alcoholic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 9:39 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:34 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 6:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 6:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-09 5:54 PM Fast Pat - 2019-11-09 5:46 PM Eric Pickles cut the regs as part of the reduction in red tape mantra "The review aimed to cut red tape for house builders, and simplify government regulations and standards into one key set, driven by Building Regulations." https://www.bregroup.com/press-releases/eric-pickles-announces-conclusion-to-housing-standards-review/ So it was Eric Pickles fault the same cladding was applied on Labour coucil flats and across the world as far as Australia? :-| ......... Damn Paddy you are becoming as desperate as Dumb Dumb and John/Peter/James or what ever his current name is to blame the Tories (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Don't know about Australia but certainly in the UK, yes it was Pickles and co that watered down building regs https://www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/whos-been-signing-off-grenfell-style-cladding-60498 It was actually Pickles predecessor that privatised Building Control which removed the checks and balances- again all the interest of the "free market ". Get over yourself Paddy *-) .......... The cladding companies are multi nationals ;-) ....... Fancy a bet on whether your EU chums are currently working out how many 10's of 1000's of flats have the same cladding in the EU? :D ........ I'll safely bet that you know feck all about cladding or building regs? Yes cladding is used worldwide but not this cladding on highrise buildings in other countries. https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/ I bet I know far more about so called Fire retardant materials than you ;-) ........ I used to burn fire retardant left over stuff :D .......... Your old curtains aren't the same as ACM's. How much time have you ever spent on building sites Paddy?.........and if knew feck all.....You'd know that the fire regulations for soft furnishings in the UK are some of the most stringent in the world ;-) ....... Well done for making yourself look a prized D*ckhead AGAIN >:-) .......... You are a natural (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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