Guest pelmetman Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-11-17 6:17 PM John52 - 2019-11-17 5:52 PM jumpstart - 2019-11-17 2:18 PM Supposed scandal. How did you manage to watch it before its broadcast *-) It’s not a scandal..yet. But your hoping *-) ....... Are you Scumbag52 altered ego? ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 17, 2019 Author Share Posted November 17, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-17 6:04 PM Why would you want to watch it? :-S ........ Because unlike you I prefer to know what I'm talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-17 6:04 PM How you can presume to know what life is like on the front line is beyond me *-) ...... A lot of things are beyond you :D But then there is such a thing as common sense which tells us life on the front line would be horrible for right thinking people. Thats why we oppose wars and are so dismayed at Britain being the only country in the worl;d to have been at war for over 100 years (link - but I don't suppose you will want to know about that either https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/08/britains-secret-wars-oman ) One of the ways we can reduce war is by making those who choose to join them be accountable for their actions, so violence doesn't cause more violence, as it did in Northern Ireland for so many years. I visited Northern Ireland several times and when I asked people there how thaey could do such horrible hings the reply was always along the lines of "don't you know what those b*stards did to us >:-( " - so they would want to do something worse .. and so it went on until both sides became accountable for their actions, and didn't have to continually take revenge by doing something even worse to someone (probably innocent) from the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The politicians are either being deliberately misleading to garner votes or are ignorant as to the status of the Human Rights Act 1978. The proposed amendment does not absolve the government from complying with their obligations under the 1950 Convention on Human Rights. Any such amendment to our statute would merely render cases against the government or its agents, including the army, non-justiciable in our courts but they would remain justiciable in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). The government may also render itself open to a case being brought against it for failing to provide a remedy for acts that contravened Articles under the 1950 Convention if it proposes to limit investigations or prosecutions in the manner suggested. An example of how the UK was held in breach of its obligations under Article 3 of the 1950 Convention before the Human Rights Act was brought into force is to be found in the case of Ireland v The United Kingdom which went before the ECtHR in the early 1970s. Here’s a link to a case seeking a revision to the judgement in the Ireland v The United Kingdom that was considered by the ECtHR in March 2018. In short, the earlier decision in 1971 that the United Kingdom has acted in contravention of Article 3 by subjecting detainees in Northern Ireland to inhuman or degrading treatment was confirmed but the ECtHR found that the treatment did not amount to torture. https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22appno%22:[%225310/71%22],%22itemid%22:[%22001-181585%22]} Whether or not someone facing criminal allegations about their conduct 48 years ago can be given a fair trial is a question those charged with the investigation and prosecution of such offences have to consider initially as will any Judge who tries the case if invited so to do. I respectfully suggest that none of us are in a position to judge whether it is right or wrong to bring prosecutions based on press reports as opposed to those with an in-depth knowledge of the copious amount of evidence in the hands of the prosecuting authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-11-18 10:34 AM The politicians are either being deliberately misleading to garner votes or are ignorant as to the status of the Human Rights Act 1978. The proposed amendment does not absolve the government from complying with their obligations under the 1950 Convention on Human Rights. Any such amendment to our statute would merely render cases against the government or its agents, including the army, non-justiciable in our courts but they would remain justiciable in the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). The government may also render itself open to a case being brought against it for failing to provide a remedy for acts that contravened Articles under the 1950 Convention if it proposes to limit investigations or prosecutions in the manner suggested. An example of how the UK was held in breach of its obligations under Article 3 of the 1950 Convention before the Human Rights Act was brought into force is to be found in the case of Ireland v The United Kingdom which went before the ECtHR in the early 1970s. Here’s a link to a case seeking a revision to the judgement in the Ireland v The United Kingdom that was considered by the ECtHR in March 2018. In short, the earlier decision in 1971 that the United Kingdom has acted in contravention of Article 3 by subjecting detainees in Northern Ireland to inhuman or degrading treatment was confirmed but the ECtHR found that the treatment did not amount to torture. https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22appno%22:[%225310/71%22],%22itemid%22:[%22001-181585%22]} Whether or not someone facing criminal allegations about their conduct 48 years ago can be given a fair trial is a question those charged with the investigation and prosecution of such offences have to consider initially as will any Judge who tries the case if invited so to do. I respectfully suggest that none of us are in a position to judge whether it is right or wrong to bring prosecutions based on press reports as opposed to those with an in-depth knowledge of the copious amount of evidence in the hands of the prosecuting authorities. Nice to have an informed opibnion Thank You. :-D But there are those who seem to think our soldiers should be free to commit atrocities because politicians have put them in such an horrible position. They don't seem to realise that with both sides committing atrocities the wars will never end :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 John52 - 2019-11-18 6:15 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-17 6:04 PM How you can presume to know what life is like on the front line is beyond me *-) ...... A lot of things are beyond you :D But then there is such a thing as common sense which tells us life on the front line would be horrible for right thinking people. Thats why we oppose wars and are so dismayed at Britain being the only country in the worl;d to have been at war for over 100 years (link - but I don't suppose you will want to know about that either https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/08/britains-secret-wars-oman ) One of the ways we can reduce war is by making those who choose to join them be accountable for their actions, so violence doesn't cause more violence, as it did in Northern Ireland for so many years. I visited Northern Ireland several times and when I asked people there how thaey could do such horrible hings the reply was always along the lines of "don't you know what those b*stards did to us >:-( " - so they would want to do something worse .. and so it went on until both sides became accountable for their actions, and didn't have to continually take revenge by doing something even worse to someone (probably innocent) from the other side. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D There's a difference between a having a different point of view and a traitorous mind set *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-18 4:11 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D There's a difference between a having a different point of view and a traitorous mind set *-) ........... But that is just a point of view (yours!) on the definition of what constitutes the mind-set of a traitor. To know whether we agree, you'd have to explain it, so we can properly understand your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Do you really think that Brian ? Yesterday Dave said he would vote for Attila the Hun if SHE got us out of the EU. ;-) Just sayin ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 malc d - 2019-11-18 4:29 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Do you really think that Brian ? Yesterday Dave said he would vote for Attila the Hun if SHE got us out of the EU. ;-) Just sayin ' You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment! :-D Maybe he meant Boudica, though I understand she's not actually standing for (Norman French) parliament. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM John52 - 2019-11-18 6:15 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-17 6:04 PM How you can presume to know what life is like on the front line is beyond me *-) ...... A lot of things are beyond you :D But then there is such a thing as common sense which tells us life on the front line would be horrible for right thinking people. Thats why we oppose wars and are so dismayed at Britain being the only country in the worl;d to have been at war for over 100 years (link - but I don't suppose you will want to know about that either https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/sep/08/britains-secret-wars-oman ) One of the ways we can reduce war is by making those who choose to join them be accountable for their actions, so violence doesn't cause more violence, as it did in Northern Ireland for so many years. I visited Northern Ireland several times and when I asked people there how thaey could do such horrible hings the reply was always along the lines of "don't you know what those b*stards did to us >:-( " - so they would want to do something worse .. and so it went on until both sides became accountable for their actions, and didn't have to continually take revenge by doing something even worse to someone (probably innocent) from the other side. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ You weren't defending me - you were paid to defend HM Government control which isn't the same thing. The lads I knew at school with who went in the forces did so for the money, travel, training, adventure, whatever. They didn't do it to defend you and me :D What difference do you think it would it have made to me if HM Government had lost control of the Falklands.. Gibraltar.. and all their other tax havens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Human nature hasn't changed ... The ability to express ones views with social media has made it possible for those like Dave who served in Her Majestys Armed Forces to judge wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk ... I would imagine many who fought during the wars given an option on what they might know now about our sad world and those who walk it might not have been so eager to join up either ... You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... Sad world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk .. Is that how you see HM Government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 John52 - 2019-11-18 6:01 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk .. Is that how you see HM Government? Your taking the comment totally out of context so couldn't possibly answer your rather silly question ... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Human nature hasn't changed ... The ability to express ones views with social media has made it possible for those like Dave who served in Her Majestys Armed Forces to judge wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk ... I would imagine many who fought during the wars given an option on what they might know now about our sad world and those who walk it might not have been so eager to join up either ... You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... Sad world Dave didn't join in wartime, when there was a clear threat to the country that those who served saw and responded to. He volunteered in peacetime, when there wasn't even national service. Social media hasn't suddenly made it possible for people to think about what they intend to do with their lives. Dave didn't join in the dark ages, there were news programmes and newspapers even when he was a lad! All he's claiming is that at the time he joined up he hadn't yet realised there were pacifists, left wing radicals, right wing radicals, liberals, and people of no political persuasion, all around him. In short, that he didn't then know what he now knows. Extraordinary! "You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... " Why, do you assume that people who don't share your political outlook haven't the stomach to fight? Who went to Spain with the International Brigades to fight against Franco during the Spanish Civil War? They weren't exactly Falangists, were they? Have you tried asking US Vietnam War veterans whether they thought the Viet Cong a pushover? Where does this dangerously simplistic political outlook come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 6:37 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Human nature hasn't changed ... The ability to express ones views with social media has made it possible for those like Dave who served in Her Majestys Armed Forces to judge wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk ... I would imagine many who fought during the wars given an option on what they might know now about our sad world and those who walk it might not have been so eager to join up either ... You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... Sad world Dave didn't join in wartime, when there was a clear threat to the country that those who served saw and responded to. He volunteered in peacetime, when there wasn't even national service. Social media hasn't suddenly made it possible for people to think about what they intend to do with their lives. Dave didn't join in the dark ages, there were news programmes and newspapers even when he was a lad! All he's claiming is that at the time he joined up he hadn't yet realised there were pacifists, left wing radicals, right wing radicals, liberals, and people of no political persuasion, all around him. In short, that he didn't then know what he now knows. Extraordinary! "You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... " Why, do you assume that people who don't share your political outlook haven't the stomach to fight? Who went to Spain with the International Brigades to fight against Franco during the Spanish Civil War? They weren't exactly Falangists, were they? Have you tried asking US Vietnam War veterans whether they thought the Viet Cong a pushover? Where does this dangerously simplistic political outlook come from? Why does it matter when Dave joined up ??? ... The rest is just guff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I was rather amused at the Guardian article 'UK secret wars', especially about Oman. Talk about one sided and narrow minded. There was no mention at all of the political situation of that time. Without intervention, the only crude oil passing through the Straits of Hormuz would have been on its way to Communist friends, none of it to the West. Just think of the consequences, it would have made the Gulf War look like a skirmish. If the truth be told, the British secured peace in that region, all the way up the West side of the Gulf from Oman up to the Saudi Border. If you don't believe me ask Ken Barlow (William Roche) off Corrie. He was in the Trucial Oman Scouts. It is true that the British used 'unusual' methods but they were apt for the region. A region where a young Arab man was given a rifle but did not become a man until he killed someone with it. Anyone would do, as long as they were from a different tribe. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 6:09 PM John52 - 2019-11-18 6:01 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk .. Is that how you see HM Government? Your taking the comment totally out of context so couldn't possibly answer your rather silly question ... Regards Whether its worth having an army to defend what we have got now depends on what we have got now. At one end of the scale are the great landowners like Royalty and the Duke of Westminster who support this Government as it defends their vast unearned inherited power and wealth. They have a lot to lose from a foreign invasion. At the other end of the scale are the increasing number of homeless who have little to lose, and probably something to gain, from a foreign invasion and change of Government. Personally I have worked for everything I have got so would probably been alright, even better off, under a different Government. So don't pretend they are going to war to defend Her Majesty's Government and Tax Havens on my Account. I know enough lads who joined Her Majesty's forces to know that wasn't the reason they joined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 747 - 2019-11-18 7:54 PM I was rather amused at the Guardian article 'UK secret wars', especially about Oman. Talk about one sided and narrow minded. There was no mention at all of the political situation of that time. Without intervention, the only crude oil passing through the Straits of Hormuz would have been on its way to Communist friends, none of it to the West. Just think of the consequences, it would have made the Gulf War look like a skirmish. If the truth be told, the British secured peace in that region, all the way up the West side of the Gulf from Oman up to the Saudi Border. If you don't believe me ask Ken Barlow (William Roche) off Corrie. He was in the Trucial Oman Scouts. It is true that the British used 'unusual' methods but they were apt for the region. A region where a young Arab man was given a rifle but did not become a man until he killed someone with it. Anyone would do, as long as they were from a different tribe. 8-) It doesn't say there was no justification for any of the wars. But that Britain is the only country in the world to have been continuously at war for over 100 years. Why is that? Do we just attract the sort of politicians that need an enemy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 6:37 PM Why, do you assume that people who don't share your political outlook haven't the stomach to fight? Who went to Spain with the International Brigades to fight against Franco during the Spanish Civil War? They weren't exactly Falangists, were they? Have you tried asking US Vietnam War veterans whether they thought the Viet Cong a pushover? Where does this dangerously simplistic political outlook come from? Indeed. The bravest of the Brave were those who won what the freedoms we enjoy today, like the Chartists and Suffragettes. They had the full might of the state against them, not supporting them. And those on the Panorama programme last night calling out the torture and murder of innocent victims by HM soldiers. Takes more courage to speak out than keep quiet. Some of those speaking out against torture and murder of innocent people committed by HM soldiers are high ranking HM forces soldiers themselves. Whats to stop psychopaths joining the Army when they are not accountable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 John52 - 2019-11-19 6:53 AM 747 - 2019-11-18 7:54 PM I was rather amused at the Guardian article 'UK secret wars', especially about Oman. Talk about one sided and narrow minded. There was no mention at all of the political situation of that time. Without intervention, the only crude oil passing through the Straits of Hormuz would have been on its way to Communist friends, none of it to the West. Just think of the consequences, it would have made the Gulf War look like a skirmish. If the truth be told, the British secured peace in that region, all the way up the West side of the Gulf from Oman up to the Saudi Border. If you don't believe me ask Ken Barlow (William Roche) off Corrie. He was in the Trucial Oman Scouts. It is true that the British used 'unusual' methods but they were apt for the region. A region where a young Arab man was given a rifle but did not become a man until he killed someone with it. Anyone would do, as long as they were from a different tribe. 8-) It doesn't say there was no justification for any of the wars. But that Britain is the only country in the world to have been continuously at war for over 100 years. Why is that? Do we just attract the sort of politicians that need an enemy? Because a country may have a serious internal or external problem, they trust the British and ask for assistance. That has happened numerous times, as in the Omani case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 747 - 2019-11-19 9:27 AM John52 - 2019-11-19 6:53 AM 747 - 2019-11-18 7:54 PM I was rather amused at the Guardian article 'UK secret wars', especially about Oman. Talk about one sided and narrow minded. There was no mention at all of the political situation of that time. Without intervention, the only crude oil passing through the Straits of Hormuz would have been on its way to Communist friends, none of it to the West. Just think of the consequences, it would have made the Gulf War look like a skirmish. If the truth be told, the British secured peace in that region, all the way up the West side of the Gulf from Oman up to the Saudi Border. If you don't believe me ask Ken Barlow (William Roche) off Corrie. He was in the Trucial Oman Scouts. It is true that the British used 'unusual' methods but they were apt for the region. A region where a young Arab man was given a rifle but did not become a man until he killed someone with it. Anyone would do, as long as they were from a different tribe. 8-) It doesn't say there was no justification for any of the wars. But that Britain is the only country in the world to have been continuously at war for over 100 years. Why is that? Do we just attract the sort of politicians that need an enemy? Because a country may have a serious internal or external problem, they trust the British and ask for assistance. That has happened numerous times, as in the Omani case. Thats the official line of course. But one of the soldiers who had the courage to speak out against his colleagues on the Panorama programme last night told us the reality. They didn't know who the Taliban were so went on tip-offs, which were often malicious. If I wanted your wife or market stall the easiest way to get them would be to tell the army psychopaths you were a member of the Taliban. You would die horribly, as they wouldn't be held to account. This hasn't stopped the Taliban. Its turned people who would otherwise have been our friends into 'Terrorists' attacking us. No wonder the net result of all these wars has probably been to make our problem of Terrorism worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 malc d - 2019-11-18 4:29 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Do you really think that Brian ? Yesterday Dave said he would vote for Attila the Hun if SHE got us out of the EU. ;-) Just sayin ' Yesterday? :-S ............ Which post was that? ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 6:54 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 6:37 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-18 5:51 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-18 4:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-18 11:09 AM...……………………….. To be honest I would not join the Navy nowadays ;-) .......... Coz folk like you are not worth defending *-) ........ Then why on earth did you join? Human nature hasn't changed in the meantime, and people who disagree with your viewpoint are no more numerous now than they ever have been. Now be honest, you just didn't realise that, at the time, did you? You're just a bit older, and maybe a bit wiser, than you were then. :-D Human nature hasn't changed ... The ability to express ones views with social media has made it possible for those like Dave who served in Her Majestys Armed Forces to judge wether or not its worth taking the risk to put ones neck on the block for some very sad folk ... I would imagine many who fought during the wars given an option on what they might know now about our sad world and those who walk it might not have been so eager to join up either ... You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... Sad world Dave didn't join in wartime, when there was a clear threat to the country that those who served saw and responded to. He volunteered in peacetime, when there wasn't even national service. Social media hasn't suddenly made it possible for people to think about what they intend to do with their lives. Dave didn't join in the dark ages, there were news programmes and newspapers even when he was a lad! All he's claiming is that at the time he joined up he hadn't yet realised there were pacifists, left wing radicals, right wing radicals, liberals, and people of no political persuasion, all around him. In short, that he didn't then know what he now knows. Extraordinary! "You wouldnt want the Barrys , FlatPart and Bin Dumper of this world behind ya when running out of the trenches would ya ... " Why, do you assume that people who don't share your political outlook haven't the stomach to fight? Who went to Spain with the International Brigades to fight against Franco during the Spanish Civil War? They weren't exactly Falangists, were they? Have you tried asking US Vietnam War veterans whether they thought the Viet Cong a pushover? Where does this dangerously simplistic political outlook come from? Why does it matter when Dave joined up ??? ... The rest is just guff At the risk of stating the obvious you would be less likely to have to fight when we weren't officially at war. You might join up for the money, housing, travel, adventure, learn a trade etc like everyone I know who joined up voluntarily did. Why can't you see that it takes more courage to call Her Majesty's soldiers to account than it does to keep quiet and go along with them? Is it because you've never had the courage to call them to account yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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