spospe Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 As we age we will eventually reach the point when we should (must) stop driving. The question is, how do we recognize when we have reached that point? I am increasingly aware that my night vision is not as good as it was, but at the moment I feel that I can cope, especially for short trips driving a car. Nearly all my motorhome driving is in daylight, but much of it is abroad, driving on the right. I realize that there is no simple one age answer, but what do members think? What are your intentions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I intend to carry on driving until I am absolutely, completely useless at it. Around my locality that means I will be driving when I am 100, at 20 mph in the middle of the road. That's the norm around here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 When this happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I suspect it is very difficult to make such a judgement on your own as most people rely on being able to drive and like the independence it brings so will be very reluctant to come to a decision that they are becoming a risk to themselves and other road users. Perhaps a second opinion should actively be sought from a close family member or friend. Ultimately I think you should stop when your awareness and reaction times diminish to the point where you are travelling too slow to compensate or are making a number of small mistakes on a regular basis. Problem is - can anyone be honest with themselves and give up their indepedence. My Dad was forced to stop driving at 86 after he collapsed suddenly at the wheel caused by an irregular heart rhythm for which he has since had a pacemaker fitted. He turned out of his street turned left into traffic then passed out. The car steered to the left, over the pavement and into a wall. The speed was not great and it was lucky there were no pedestrians and that he turned left not right into oncoming traffic. He had another episode a couple of weeks later, this time falling and hitting his head on a fence post. Mum always said she would decide if he was unfit to drive but this came out of the blue and he was still a good driver. You cant predict this sort of thing but there is no doubt that increasing age increases the risk of it happening. Losing the car has had a significant effect on their quality of life, being now mostly trapped at home. Taxis can be used for trips into town but the local bus service is absolutely useless. I can’t imagine not being able to get in a car and go where I want when I want but, at 64, I reckon I still have a few good years left so will be making the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Hopefully I'm not that selfish and I'll stop driving before I kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 spospe - 2019-12-12 3:35 PM As we age we will eventually reach the point when we should (must) stop driving. The question is, how do we recognize when we have reached that point? I am increasingly aware that my night vision is not as good as it was, but at the moment I feel that I can cope, especially for short trips driving a car. Nearly all my motorhome driving is in daylight, but much of it is abroad, driving on the right. I realize that there is no simple one age answer, but what do members think? What are your intentions? What is the particular problem with driving at night Michael? Do you need spectacles, either for normal vision or for reading? Have you mentioned the night time driving problem to an optician? I believe there are lenses specifically designed to deal with this problem. With night driving, I find that newer vehicles, especially those with LED DRLs and/or LED headlamps cause considerable dazzle. In part this seems to be because the brilliance of the LED DRLs is not reduced when the headlamps are turned on, so that even if the dipped beam is well controlled, the volume of light being produced prevents one seeing past the light source, leaving pedestrians, animals or cyclists ahead virtually invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Advice on night driving here https://www.eyecaretrust.org.uk/view.php?item_id=52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-12-12 4:21 PM Hopefully I'm not that selfish and I'll stop driving before I kill someone. Whilst I (obviously) agree, the problem is most people won't see themselves as being "selfish".. they'll just think they're just doing what they've always done, functioning as normal... As far as day-to-day driving goes, I think much of the problem is that for many there is a lack of "preparedness", that and a lack of wanting to admit that they are just getting less capable... Many will still be living in inappropriate locations (in inappropriate housing?), meaning that they need, or feel that they need,a car to get to shops, GP, "the tip" etc etc.. My (divorced, & remarried) mid-70s in-laws are cases in point. Neither set live anywhere a shop, nor near a bus route, instead they've chosen to buy their out of town, detached houses, so "need" to use their cars...and to my mind, all of them are a *liability on the road. * due to a combination of diminishing ability, and various medical "ailments" (*One of them recently T-boned a motorcyclist , breaking his legs!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I gave up riding motorcycles three or four years ago (age 70) when I realised my reactions had slowed and I was failing in my efforts to ride more slowly - if I hadn't stopped I knew that I would sooner or later have come to serious grief. But I think I'm still OK driving cars and our MH (over 3,500 kg) although I noticed that I drive at a more leisurely pace these days and I plan long journeys to make them at quiter traffic times and I avoid driving at night unnecessarily. We did a 275 mile journey mostly in the dark and in traffic last weekend but that was exceptional and I really did concentrate and also paced myself to stay out of trouble. I did IAM training and the IAM test some years ago and that makes you self aware in a useful way. My County Council ran a scheme of driving assesments to help older drivers to stay skillful enough to drive safely and that was useful too. My gradual self-restriction is consistent with the way the majority of older drivers adjust their approach to driving as they get older, in order to avoid unnecessary risks - eventually restricting themselves to local journeys in daylight only. I haven't got to that stage yet (we've been to Portugal twice in the MH this year) but I can see it coming well within the next ten years. Drivers who don't see it coming will usually have an accident which makes it too expensive to continue getting insurance or they will find themselves being told by their family that they are no longer up to driving safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I reckon aged 70 for me whether or not my health holds up. The joy of driving is disappearing. I'm well placed for using public transport. This year I have had to make several visits to the local Eye Hospital. The worst case I came across at the Hospital was someone who confided in me that they stopped driving at night when they couldn't see the road signs or the end of the bonnet - they still drove during the day and were hoping the cataract operation would improve their vision. Some Police Forces are doing automatic eye tests if they pull over the elderly drivers. There are two tests, one where you have to read a number plate at 20m and one which tests your peripheral vision. My vision currently meets the criteria according to my Consultant. I was told glaucoma, cataracts, and age-related macular degeneration are the main causes of reduced vision, with the latter most common in the over 60s. You can lose up to 40% of your vision without noticing. Having an eye test every year since I retired has proved to be a good idea for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Brock - 2019-12-12 5:48 PM I reckon aged 70 for me whether or not my health holds up. The joy of driving is disappearing. I'm well placed for using public transport. This year I have had to make several visits to the local Eye Hospital. The worst case I came across at the Hospital was someone who confided in me that they stopped driving at night when they couldn't see the road signs or the end of the bonnet - they still drove during the day and were hoping the cataract operation would improve their vision. Some Police Forces are doing automatic eye tests if they pull over the elderly drivers. There are two tests, one where you have to read a number plate at 20m and one which tests your peripheral vision. My vision currently meets the criteria according to my Consultant. I was told glaucoma, cataracts, and age-related macular degeneration are the main causes of reduced vision, with the latter most common in the over 60s. You can lose up to 40% of your vision without noticing. Having an eye test every year since I retired has proved to be a good idea for me. You are correct about the main causes of of vision loss. To me, that shows incredible arrogance and selfishness by those involved. They know their eyes have a problem and they never go near an Opticians for whatever trivial reason is important to them. Opticians are duty bound to refer patients for further tests which is imperative for the health of the patient and the health of other drivers on the road. I have Dry Macular Degeneration which is being tracked and treated very well by the NHS. Juust this afternoon I had my Medical to retain the C1 on my driving licence. My sight is within the parameters set by the DVLA ... but they probably would not have been if I had been too stupid to visit an Optician. By the way, you should ask your Optician about the annual eye test. I'm sure it has been changed to every 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Advice on eye-test frequency here https://www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/nhs-services-and-treatments/how-often-can-i-have-a-free-nhs-eye-test/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roryboy Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I have always been a perfect driver with no 'at fault' accidents in the 60 years since I passed my test – so like everyone else who drives I believe I'm the best driver on the road. But actually I'm just an average driver who's managed to avoid running into anyone else through reasonable driving and probably good luck. Earlier this year I had cataract operations on both eyes (not at the same time) and when being allowed to drive again with new glasses realised how my vision had deteriorated over the years without me being aware of it. Now I can see everything, and I mean everything, including improved night vision with full clarity and colour and at least my eye sight should not be the reason for me to stop driving. The main reason I may pack up Motorhome driving may probably be the cost of insurance, vehicle and travel, when I hit 80 in a year or so. I believe the costs will escalate, everyone has different health and circumstances, but finding how much extra will only be revealed when I do get close to that age and apply for insurance renewal. Unless you don't come within the DVLA rules and regulation due to health issues and you still enjoy driving a Motorhome then just keep going. But if you have eye sight issues I would strongly advise checking whether a cataract operation is possible, whatever the short term issues after the operation, and get them done to ensure you can continue driving for many years to come. Hope this helps. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 I guess one sign is when your relatives start offering to drive you. I would consider periodically asking family/friends if they think I'm still OK to drive. My mom effectively stopped years ago due to a number of health issues and I've been noticing my dad is becoming an "elderly driver". When I don't feel comfortable with him driving me around I will definitely say something. Although I do hope he will come to that realisation before I need to say it. I have a feeling he won't take it that well. That said, they will probably manage just fine with public transport but will obviously need to adjust to being more local. They do enjoy going on hikes and cycling in remote locations within a few hours of driving and that will be a big adjustment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-12-12 4:35 PM What is the particular problem with driving at night Michael? Do you need spectacles, either for normal vision or for reading? Have you mentioned the night time driving problem to an optician? I believe there are lenses specifically designed to deal with this problem. The main problem seems to be loss of detail in shadow areas when facing oncoming traffic fitted with bright headlamps (I do wear glasses and my Optician knows of the problem) Thanks to all for the replies to date, as I suspected there is no one simple answer, but you have given me some ideas and a bit of hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 If unsure ask a Driving instructor for a lesson to assess your driving preferably you driving your motorhome. His assessment will highlight habits and recommendation. It is really then up to you to decide the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Eyesight-related problems are relatively easily checked and can often be addressed successfully, but the onset of dementia is more difficult to identify and its effect on a motorist trickier to assess. This link refers and the statistic “1 in 3 people with dementia still drives” is worth noting. https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites/default/files/migrate/downloads/driving_and_dementia_factsheet_439.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-12-13 8:20 AM This link refers and the statistic “1 in 3 people with dementia still drives” is worth noting. https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites/default/files/migrate/downloads/driving_and_dementia_factsheet_439.pdf The Alzheimers link is worth a read and is more positive than I thought it might have been. I had thought that any diagnosis of dementia would automatically mean a loss of licence, but apparently not. However what an insurance company might make of such a notification is rather unclear, but likely to be quite expensive I think. The idea of having an independent driving assessment is excellent and provided that I am compos mentis when the time comes it is something which I shall do. Thanks again for all the positive suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Or you could have a driving assessment with your local IAM branch for a small fee. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 My father, who was an optician, did not like night driving. He struggled with high contrast scenes. Typically with oncoming headlights it was difficult to observe what was happening in the darker areas at the side of the road. A potential hazard for a pedestrian walking on the side of a country road. The problem is mainly caused by the gradual development of cataracts. I can sense I will also go this way as my optician has advised me that cataracts are developing. It must run in the family as even our dog had cataracts and would walk into lamp posts if taken out for a late night walk. Father checked out his eyes and confirmed severe cataracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roryboy Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I said in my earlier post that I'd had both cataracts done and the resulting improvement in vision has, quite honestly, been staggering. I would advise anyone who has cataracts to seek medical opinion and, if there are not any other underlying health reasons, have your eyes attended to. Cataracts do not get better by themselves, only worse, and any delays you make will not be of benefit to you in the long run. I wish I'd had mine done when first diagnosed about five years ago. Hope this helps. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 spospe - 2019-12-12 7:03 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-12-12 4:35 PM What is the particular problem with driving at night Michael? Do you need spectacles, either for normal vision or for reading? Have you mentioned the night time driving problem to an optician? I believe there are lenses specifically designed to deal with this problem. The main problem seems to be loss of detail in shadow areas when facing oncoming traffic fitted with bright headlamps (I do wear glasses and my Optician knows of the problem) Thanks to all for the replies to date, as I suspected there is no one simple answer, but you have given me some ideas and a bit of hope. If you do a "Google" search for LED headlight glare you will find quite a chorus of comments about the impact of increasing headlamp outputs in oncoming traffic, their apparent poor alignment, and resultant dazzle. I'm not suggesting that this is your problem, but a lot of other people seem to be suffering its impact. It seems to affect UK driving particularly, I guess because of our relatively long periods of winter darkness, gloom and general damp (the impact is sharply worse with wet roads), our relatively high traffic densities, and the poor general state of our road markings and road condition, especially on unlit rural roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Check your Mascula every year. Do a pre test on a A-4 paper Amsler- grid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 I think you mean “Macula” - ;-) Self-testing using an Amsler Grid is described here https://www.allaboutvision.com/conditions/amsler-grid.htm http://cdna.allaboutvision.com/pdfs/amsler-grid.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodach Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 As I am now over 80 insurance costs have more than doubled and it is I think impossible to get a new insurer to even quote. I have an annual eye test and had both cataracts done a couple of years ago and my eyesight is well within acceptable parameters. My reactions are I think better than many younger people but I have given up on a large motorhome due to nervousness on narrow roads with lorry traffic getting more aggressive. A friend who is the owner/driver of a large artic. agrees that the standard of driving of many lorries leaves much to be desired. A smaller PVC is no problem. I regularly drive in traffic and confined spaces with no problem but strange( to me) motorway junctions are places I avoid if possible tho’ again much younger people admit to a fear of such junctions. I admit that a satnav can help and a younger son checks streetview when going to a new area to get an idea of what the area looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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