Travel within the EU in 2020

[BruceM]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

......I really don’t understand everyone’s panic about travel. :-S

 

I don’t think that the concern is about travel. The concern is about stays of over 90 days in the EU. In reality it’s a minority of UK motorhome nationals who will be effected by this, but for those that are it may mean a significant change to their preferred lifestyle.

[teccer1234]

we live in the UK with an Irish passport and we do know that we will lose our health cover at the end of this year but we're willing to get private health cover so that's no problem the only thing that is a bit of a niggle is that we will be driving a UK reg motorhome and think we're going to be stopped all the time to check us out, I have thought about putting the GB sticker one side and a IRL one on the other side!!!! (that's bound to wind them up)

 

BruceM - 2020-02-22 7:13 PM

 

teccer1234 - 2020-02-22 4:45 PM

 

for the last 24 years we've stayed in Spain for 6 months in the winter so how will this affect me as we've got Irish passport= EU citizen,

thoughts??

 

Whilst I'd agree with the nother responses to your question the one thing I’d be wary of is health cover. If you are an Irish Republic national and resident in the Republic of Ireland and therefore currently covered by the Irish heath service then nothing should change for you. If however you are resident in the UK and consequently covered by the British health service (you’d have a UK National Insurance number rather than an Irish equivalent) then I suspect you may loose the health benefits of being an EU citizen when you travel within the EU.

(lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Brian Kirby]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

Just renewed our Passports.....EU Red covers....valid until 2030. :-D

 

Son, Daughter-in-law and two Grandkids living in The Netherlands.......I really don’t understand everyone’s panic about travel. :-S

Maybe not, but then, you will have visiting rights, won't you? And they won't count against your 90 days, will they?

[Brian Kirby]

teccer1234 - 2020-02-23 6:43 PM

 

we live in the UK with an Irish passport and we do know that we will lose our health cover at the end of this year

Not necessarily. If HMG negotiates a suitable arrangement with the EU, it is possible the EHIC cards may continue in use. It all depends...…………………………...

[BruceM]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-23 6:44 PM

 

Maybe not, but then, you will have visiting rights, won't you? And they won't count against your 90 days, will they?

 

Now I’m intrigued, I’ve not come across that one before. I’ve been unable to locate anything about it via a search engine. How does it work?

[malc d]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

Just renewed our Passports.....EU Red covers....valid until 2030. :-D

 

 

 

I think you should check again.

 

New ones being issued at the moment have red covers but are NOT EU passports.

 

The words " European Union " have been removed from the front cover, and first page.

 

 

:-|

[Bulletguy]

teccer1234 - 2020-02-23 6:43 PM

 

we live in the UK with an Irish passport and we do know that we will lose our health cover at the end of this year but we're willing to get private health cover so that's no problem the only thing that is a bit of a niggle is that we will be driving a UK reg motorhome and think we're going to be stopped all the time to check us out, I have thought about putting the GB sticker one side and a IRL one on the other side!!!! (that's bound to wind them up) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol)

Almost a certainty. Two years back i was pulled four times by police at roadside checks in Romania and twice in Germany. They will be searching out any overstayers from next year.

[Sapper520]

malc d - 2020-02-23 8:15 PM

 

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

Just renewed our Passports.....EU Red covers....valid until 2030. :-D

 

 

 

I think you should check again.

 

New ones being issued at the moment have red covers but are NOT EU passports.

 

The words " European Union " have been removed from the front cover, and first page.

 

 

:-|

 

I know, but UK ones will be blue.....so I’ll have a red one until 2030. As long as it’s valid I’m happy. ;-)

[Sapper520]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-23 6:44 PM

 

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

Just renewed our Passports.....EU Red covers....valid until 2030. :-D

 

Son, Daughter-in-law and two Grandkids living in The Netherlands.......I really don’t understand everyone’s panic about travel. :-S

Maybe not, but then, you will have visiting rights, won't you? And they won't count against your 90 days, will they?

 

Got to be honest, I have no idea. Having living in Germany on two occasions, and having family live there I’ve never counted how many days I’ve visited or stayed. ;-)

[Sapper520]

90 days in 180 days no visa as long as the same applies to EU citizens visiting UK......after December 2020.

 

Travel to and from Ireland (Eire) no changes, even after December 2020.

 

Should visas be introduced.......a few quid with probably an on line application.

 

I’m struggling to see what the major issues are?

 

 

 

;-)

[slowdriver]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 9:21 PM

 

90 days in 180 days no visa as long as the same applies to EU citizens visiting UK......after December 2020.

 

Travel to and from Ireland (Eire) no changes, even after December 2020.

 

Should visas be introduced.......a few quid with probably an on line application.

 

I’m struggling to see what the major issues are?

 

;-)

 

I think the only major issue as far as this thread was concerned is that some UK citizens like to go to Europe for more than 90 days in any 180 day window. For them, even when they have applied for and received visa free access through ETIAS in 2021 (for 3 years and a very reasonable €7, if I remember correctly) they will still be subject to the Schengen 90/180 rule which means, for instance, that staying for more than 90 days continually through the winter months in Spain or elsewhere, will not be possible. If that is not something you do, then you will indeed not have a "major" issue. If you habitually make multiple trips to Europe of varying durations then you will need to plan carefully. Check here:

https://adambard.github.io/schengencalc/

 

I am not sure what happens if the British government refuses to allow EU citizens reciprocal rights.

 

[flyboyprowler]

slowdriver - 2020-02-23 10:05 PM

 

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 9:21 PM

 

90 days in 180 days no visa as long as the same applies to EU citizens visiting UK......after December 2020.

 

Travel to and from Ireland (Eire) no changes, even after December 2020.

 

Should visas be introduced.......a few quid with probably an on line application.

 

I’m struggling to see what the major issues are?

 

;-)

 

I think the only major issue as far as this thread was concerned is that some UK citizens like to go to Europe for more than 90 days in any 180 day window. For them, even when they have applied for and received visa free access through ETIAS in 2021 (for 3 years and a very reasonable €7, if I remember correctly) they will still be subject to the Schengen 90/180 rule which means, for instance, that staying for more than 90 days continually through the winter months in Spain or elsewhere, will not be possible. If that is not something you do, then you will indeed not have a "major" issue. If you habitually make multiple trips to Europe of varying durations then you will need to plan carefully. Check here:

https://adambard.github.io/schengencalc/

 

I am not sure what happens if the British government refuses to allow EU citizens reciprocal rights.

 

You are quite correct, BUT, should a long stay visa for an individual Country be available, for say Spain (which would benefit the "snowbirds") then that would work. Any time during that period spent out of Spain would automatically trigger into the 90 day rule, but how it could be policed is anyone's guess.

[colin]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 9:21 PM

 

90 days in 180 days no visa as long as the same applies to EU citizens visiting UK......after December 2020.

 

Travel to and from Ireland (Eire) no changes, even after December 2020.

 

Should visas be introduced.......a few quid with probably an on line application.

 

I’m struggling to see what the major issues are?

 

 

 

;-)

 

The Visa's will not be for tourist purposes, so the 90days always remains for tourists, which is low compared to say Australia where a visa is valid for 6 months stay which can be extended up to 12 months, or US where a full visa allows 6 months at a time in a year, with the possibility of extension.

[Sapper520]

It appears to be up for negotiation. If the UK allow EU citizens to stay, let’s say for 6 months, then the EU appear to be happy to match it.

 

I’m afraid it’s wait and see isn’t it?

 

 

 

;-)

[phalange]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-24 12:34 PM

 

It appears to be up for negotiation. If the UK allow EU citizens to stay, let’s say for 6 months, then the EU appear to be happy to match it.

 

I’m afraid it’s wait and see isn’t it?

 

 

 

;-)

 

Tourists can already stay in the UK for 6 months. Where have you read it’s up for negotiation? And where have you read the EU will match it? I haven’t seen that anywhere.

[Bulletguy]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 8:57 PM

 

malc d - 2020-02-23 8:15 PM

 

Sapper520 - 2020-02-23 6:23 PM

 

Just renewed our Passports.....EU Red covers....valid until 2030. :-D

 

 

 

I think you should check again.

 

New ones being issued at the moment have red covers but are NOT EU passports.

 

The words " European Union " have been removed from the front cover, and first page.

 

 

:-|

 

I know, but UK ones will be blue.....so I’ll have a red one until 2030. As long as it’s valid I’m happy. ;-)

Mine is a European Union one.....unfortunately only with two years left on it though. :-(

 

The entire fuss and palaver over colour was yet another piece of disinformation peddled by the Leave campaign claiming the colour was "forced" on UK by EU. It wasn't and UK could have had whatever colour they wanted, even keeping the original dark blue, just as Croatia kept their black passport. It was another lie fed to those daft enough to believe it....which they did.

[Sapper520]

In relation to visitors / visa’s.............BBC.

 

Colour of Passport........can be whatever colour they like as long as it’s valid for me.

 

Dipping out of this one, getting a bit too serious for me. I was just trying to lighten people up by saying let’s wait and see as human nature always goes down the worst case scenario route.

 

:-D

[Bulletguy]

phalange - 2020-02-24 12:46 PM

 

Sapper520 - 2020-02-24 12:34 PM

 

It appears to be up for negotiation. If the UK allow EU citizens to stay, let’s say for 6 months, then the EU appear to be happy to match it.

 

I’m afraid it’s wait and see isn’t it?

 

;-)

 

Tourists can already stay in the UK for 6 months. Where have you read it’s up for negotiation? And where have you read the EU will match it? I haven’t seen that anywhere.

Because we never became part of Schengen. More explained here;

https://1st4immigration-visas.blogspot.com/2013/06/how-long-can-visitor-stay-in-uk-6.html

 

it's also worth noting this bit dispelling the myth that EU/non-EU citizens come to UK for free health care and benefits. They have to prove residency for that.

 

Visitor rules include: purpose of visits, no right to work, no right to use the NHS, no right to use the public funds (benefits), no right to switch to more serious visas inside the UK, ie no right to switch to a Spouse or work visa.

[Tony Jones]

Sapper520 - 2020-02-24 12:34 PM

 

It appears to be up for negotiation. If the UK allow EU citizens to stay, let’s say for 6 months, then the EU appear to be happy to match it.

 

I’m afraid it’s wait and see isn’t it?

 

 

 

;-)

 

Not really. As I pointed out earlier,Schengen rules are NOT up for negotiation as part of the "future relationship" talks.

They can't be, as there are several non-EU countries who are part of the Schengen treaty, and they won't be at the table.

The Schengen 90/180 rules will remain unchanged, and Brits will become subject to them the moment Freedom of Movement ends.

[Deneb]

Bulletguy - 2020-02-24 3:44 PM

 

it's also worth noting this bit dispelling the myth that EU/non-EU citizens come to UK for free health care and benefits. They have to prove residency for that.

 

You would think so, wouldn't you, but my wife works in the NHS in a pre-operative assessment unit. She says that frequently either no-one bothers to check, or when they do the admission process has gone so far that the managers are afraid to withdraw the offer of treatment, or they are overruled by the consultant in charge of the patient.

[teccer1234]

well hopefully we might get away without getting pulled up, when we come down we drive direct to the villa in Spain and just stay for the whole time and direct to the tunnel travelling back just under the 6 months

it is wrong IMO that Irish living in the UK=EU citizens will lose their/our EHIC as there's no way fecking Boris will worry about the few 100 Irish folk that are still wanting to come down for the winter

 

 

 

Almost a certainty. Two years back i was pulled four times by police at roadside checks in Romania and twice in Germany. They will be searching out any overstayers from next year.

[niktam]

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-22 5:06 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2020-02-22 12:07 PM...…………………..

They wont have legal authority to stay in Spain though post transition without some kind of residency permit or citizenship I believe or possibly a Padron if they have property. Without some kind of residency the Schengen rules will apply.

The alternative is a long stay visa. But, from what I have read, the visas are issued by the individual states, and the terms for granting the visa, its duration, and the time in country granted, are all set by the issuing state. Some visas are accepted by all EU states (for example, I understand those issued by France are) whereas other visas are not. The visa will state its terms, is affixed in the passport and, I understand, "trumps" Schengen. I think what Nicholas really needs to do is explore his alternatives with the Spanish embassy in London.

 

It seems he has two choices, first obtain residency (I don't think the "padron" has any validity under Schengen), which he could do if he chooses (residency in Spain would not, as I understand it, imply losing UK residency, because as he is domiciled in UK so can also legally hold residency elsewhere), or obtaining a long stay visa.

 

Only the Spanish embassy can confirm, with authority, their national policy on either/both.

 

Since there is no-one (so far as I know) on here who has experience of operating either option as a third country national, all the rest of us can do is reiterate what we have gleaned from our researches, or guess! I assume his eventual decision will rest on whichever offers the best combination of duration, flexibility, and cost.

 

Perhaps Nicholas might come back to us when he has his answers and tell us how he got on?

 

 

As we are aware it is all up in air(no pun intended)

 

My Son told me today that when he had a gap year with a well known budget airline it was apparent that a number of non EU visitors to the UK had tourist visas issued by one EU state that clearly allowed extended visits to all of the EU . The big question is how will they be dished out to us in the UK? Given to UK owners of properties in the EU ? Given to motorhomers? We will have to wait and see?

[Brian Kirby]

BruceM - 2020-02-23 6:59 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2020-02-23 6:44 PM

 

Maybe not, but then, you will have visiting rights, won't you? And they won't count against your 90 days, will they?

 

Now I’m intrigued, I’ve not come across that one before. I’ve been unable to locate anything about it via a search engine. How does it work?

Sorry to be slow replying. If you follow this link and download the document https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/2018-11-26_qa_citizens_rights_en_0.pdf and then go to Section 5: Entry and exit rules (P19), the first two paragraphs seem to me to say A) that pre Brexit freedom of movement rules extend to the end of transition, and B) that those UK nationals residing in the EU since before the end of transition continue to have those rights, as do their family members.

 

It is not a directive, but taken together the two paragraphs seem to imply that all you will need is a valid passport and that, the freedom of movement rules will continue to apply in both cases, meaning that the Schengen 90 days rule will not apply.

 

I have not looked further into this as it is not relevant to us, and I have no idea what else you'll need to present at the Schengen border to demonstrate that because you're visiting family in Schengen, your passport should not be stamped. I assume that as you can still download this document it is relevant to the Johnson withdrawal agreement, as from its date it was originally drafted for the May agreement.

[Brian Kirby]

niktam - 2020-02-24 6:49 PM.....................….My Son told me today that when he had a gap year with a well known budget airline it was apparent that a number of non EU visitors to the UK had tourist visas issued by one EU state that clearly allowed extended visits to all of the EU . The big question is how will they be dished out to us in the UK? Given to UK owners of properties in the EU ? Given to motorhomers? We will have to wait and see?

Visas have to be obtained from the UK embassy (London, or for some countries legations in other cities), of whichever EU state, submitting whatever documentation that country demands. They will not be given, they have to be applied for, one per individual travelling, and they have to be paid for. Property owners will have better grounds than motorhomers, who are merely asking to be able to evade the Schengen 90 days rule. It will depend on the value the individual states attach to tourism, and particularly motorhome tourism, as to what durations they will authorise, for what periods of validity, and at what cost. So yes, we shall just have to wait and see.

[Kennyd]

Ultimately it’s Money that runs the world not Governments , Europe can’t afford to loose our cash , Spain would go into recession , until it happens it hasn’t happened, at the moment all the politicians are playing hard ball , it will eventually all settle down , then & then only will I worry about how I am going to tour Europe & beyond, IMO this is just 5 pages of , IF, MAYBE , COULD MEAN , SHOULD MEAN , WOULD MEAN !!!!